Grid Sage Forums

Grid Sage Forums

  • November 21, 2024, 10:46:37 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

LINKS: Website | Steam | Wiki

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic: Challenge Modes  (Read 44001 times)

bugsniper

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Weekly Seed Participant
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2019, 11:15:14 AM »

Jump Start/Super Jump Start/Endgame Start: Immediately after leaving the scrapyard, you come to the first level of factory/research/access with nothing but the slots you've selected and the scrapyard parts.
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2019, 06:32:07 AM »

Mm, this could be fun. Actually heck this'd probably be a way that some people would like to start the game anyway :P

I mean you can generally get up to speed by grabbing local stuff pretty easily, you'd mainly just potentially be missing out on special parts or long-term help you could've gotten before that point.
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

seanawesomness

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2019, 08:30:23 AM »

How about

Unstable relationships: all robots are hostile
Logged

GJ

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Bug Hunter
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2019, 07:36:01 AM »

While it is still fresh in my thoughts, I would like to suggest a challenge mode where all of those Main C (mapwide) alerts indicating squad dispatches are hidden from the player. Enumerate hacks should still work and probably also messages that require direct line of sight, like I think there's a log message similar to distress signals when you attack a hauler and it calls for reinforcements, or maybe that was replaced when the mapwide alert for it was added? I imagine all the non-squad stuff like T-100 and the unique R events should also be displayed, even if assault messages aren't.

I would also like the Alert: Activating Garrison message to be hidden, I'm not sure if that's technically a squad alert, I imagine the stuff that comes out of the flashing garrison is the squads you see on enumerate, just the timing of the alert is preemptive. Regardless it is against the idea of this mode for a mapwide alert to immediately and with certainty spoil you of the presence of a nearby garrison and that enemies are coming for you, that knowledge should require line of sight on the flashing garrison or the other ways there are to know that, e.g.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Alternatively add this stuff to roguelike mode so that the hardest difficulty of the game has some actual challenge and excitement now that even treads have an easy time dealing with the complex.

Due to the fact that the idea of this mode is for dispatches to have less certainty attached to them, perhaps remove access to sensor arrays similar to how the player can't grab storage units in other modes. It's possible the mode would be fine as is given there's some natural degree of shame in playing a challenge mode and going for the exact type of build that completely bypasses the unique element of the challenge, though I feel like removing access to sensors is clean and consistent. I've ran it through my head and this mode is completely playable even without sensors, and probably more fun without the incentive to "cheat".

The challenge mode could be called something like... 'Reticent' or 'Secretive', or take the funny route with 'Surprise!'
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2019, 05:33:11 AM »

Hey GJ, sounds interesting! Also... very scary? :P

Although harder, I guess this sorta limits the tactical nature of the game, eh? I mean the various forms of intel, including what's coming for you "at some point" (because even then you really may not have an idea of whether it'll be sooner or later), are important for keeping the game more about planning for possibilities, and in this case you simply know fewer of them, are more... in the dark.

Anyway, just thinking through it to help brainstorm ideas for names and further expansion of the mechanics.

Seems like to make this one more interesting there should be a kill requirement. Like say you have to take out at least X enemies before exits are accessible, or something like that.

Alternatively add this stuff to roguelike mode so that the hardest difficulty of the game has some actual challenge and excitement now that even treads have an easy time dealing with the complex.
GJ, you're still the gold standard when it comes to difficulty, but even Rogue really shouldn't be balanced against your ability because then almost no one would ever win xD

The combat balancing was mainly to bring it closer to flight capabilities (even though it's pretty much impossible to totally catch up in that regard...), but I'm sure we'll eventually be seeing more challenges in the regular game. For example the planned expansion(s). I'm certainly hoping to add some very difficult ones, too.
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

GJ

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Bug Hunter
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2019, 05:04:55 AM »

The main tactic that gets restricted is holing up in a room to wait for a squad. As you may remember from our discussions during Alpha I've always found Exterminations to be kinda boring, alert decay decay was introduced I think partially to combat "Extermination cheese" but while that mechanic is great and has interesting incentives it's kinda for other reasons i.e. you're still supposed to just wait for an Extermination once you get that alert, the small nuance that got added to that is maybe don't hole up immediately if you can push forward for a few turns after the notification. I think these will just be more fun/exciting in this mode, and you can still play for preemptive tactics in dangerous terrain, like in the floors after Factory there will still be occasions to wait for an Extermination before going through an open area or whatever, there's just a real cost to it with potentially letting the decay timer tick for longer than you'd want it to, though it also gives some time for adv. terscan processor to work. Given Hcp currently makes it easy to always stay below alert 4 with treads, what with NC couplers or just picking up hackware in conjunction with Hub, I think this is nice. I haven't really felt any time pressure in all of Research since the introduction of RIF, that's also partially due to figuring out (around this time) how much better hackware/terscan is than sensors for slow combat.

Assaults kinda have similar incentives as Exterminations, especially now that Saboteurs will satisfyingly suicide on multislot parts I think it's a bit boring that 98% of them won't even reach you if you position yourself for the assault. Even without the notification you'll have an idea when assaults definitely can't happen and there's ways to modify your active loadout to be resilient against a slapfight with Saboteurs and Brawlers (even with good processors attached), I can't fully predict how this'll affect mass assaults à la high-sec but I'm inclined to say it'd be nice for high-sec to be actually scary, the addition of Executioners and Strikers alone doesn't really do that, feels a bit more like "fuck yeah, Helical Railguns and Plasma Lances!" in some way. Either way whenever high-sec has been at its scariest e.g. Access, the play has been to furiously move forward whenever not shooting makes any sense, so there might not be much of a difference here. You always had to look for the briefest moments of relaxed pressure to move and they didn't correspond strongly with the dispatch timings, as in they would happen during a wave too and the wave-end moment is something you always needed your eyes for.

With Investigations and Reinforcements the decision to either wait and clean up or attempt digging away is actually interesting, but these are the type of dispatches where you can still know that it's coming and if you merely suspect it there can be interesting ways to confirm it in this mode. Shooting through walls to spot a locked terminal, enumerate(squads)... and garrisons used to be silent in Alpha so we know how that plays out, it'll be less of an issue than it ever was, even the very recent Siege mode helps here. You can always just... guess, when dealing with some situations.

Quote
Seems like to make this one more interesting there should be a kill requirement. Like say you have to take out at least X enemies before exits are accessible, or something like that.
Yeah, that could be good. Some small amount that disincentivizes the type of fast build that doesn't really trigger dispatches, in practice I think those builds will just launcher a few patrols and combat builds that quickly encounter the branch they want can just stand there and wait, but a small amount of necessary killing can contribute the right kind of flavor for this type of run.

Quote
almost no one would ever win
So I think Cogmind has a fairly pronounced skill floor relative to its actual difficulty, specifically learning the game is very complex but once you're no longer in unfamiliar territory it's not that difficult to be consistently unstoppable, I'd say typically this has applied to around or more than half of the people in the top 5 of the leaderboards. I suppose I can understand that hushed Exterminations would be extremely tilting to people still in the learning stages, but have you considered a difficulty above roguelike to e.g. target players abusing the static aspects of the game? Abuse here doesn't even have to be as specific as say, Damper Plating and EMDS, just knowing exactly what the map-typical mobs have and how good it is makes it very hard for the complex to break you in any seed, like the game changes when you know that e.g. Flak Guns have nutty DPS relative to their depth but Helical Railguns don't, that adv. target analyzer is notably better than adv. core analyzer, that Hvy. Autocannons exist, that Adv. Phase Shifter is aight but Imp. ain't, that Q Guards are chumps and have nice loot... not asking for flak gun or target analyzer nerfs, btw, though maybe Q being the easiest branch in the game just ain't right. The introduction of locate prototypes has made this even more pronounced and part of me misses the times when at least Testing felt potentially scary, or scarier than the average main floor Research.

Quote
The combat balancing was mainly to bring it closer to flight capabilities (even though it's pretty much impossible to totally catch up in that regard...)
And if you'd like some feedback on that, regardless of what the specific hierarchy is I would consider flight, hover and treads to share tier-1 prop status at this point. If players are still struggling with treads then I think that's just similar to when players don't yet know how to properly abuse play flight or hover. Hcp is a big boost and relative incentive to playing treads, the prop itself is much more armour-y than it used to be so carrying treads is easier and makes more sense, whatever genuine matter issues used to exist don't really anymore, crit gunslinging is really good, it's even easier to play for hoarding hackware and dropping/discarding it for more combat potential when necessary then picking up hackware again... and you can chew through some Colossi for multirails if you need endgame DPS. Salvage targeting computers are good now: Sentries have good weapons (though they kinda get worse with every upgrade?) and can supply extra treads if needed, potentially double hackware from sniping Operators, and killing Behemoths with kinetic guns can sometimes be nice, it'll get you injectors and 2-slot treads at the very least. I suppose treads are still #3 in the hierarchy due to the fact that knowing whether and when your treads build needs to transition into Exp. Biometal Legs and start mixing in Neutron Cannons is more challenging than flight/hover ++.

Also if you're wondering how to counteract the playerbase's inevitable complaints about how there's no reason to play legs despite the fact that the prop is still pretty good (looks worse with Hcp existing though), then I'd like to suggest upping the max range of ramming to 200 to truly incentivize the kick build when adv. force boosters are found, what could go wrong?  <--- Unbiased player who never abused this mechanic.  :)
Logged

Joshua

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Bug Hunter Weekly Seed Participant Shared a Confirmed Combat Win Shared a Confirmed Stealth Win
  • Posts: 319
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2019, 04:24:12 AM »

Hey GJ, sounds interesting! Also... very scary? :P

Although harder, I guess this sorta limits the tactical nature of the game, eh? I mean the various forms of intel, including what's coming for you "at some point" (because even then you really may not have an idea of whether it'll be sooner or later), are important for keeping the game more about planning for possibilities, and in this case you simply know fewer of them, are more... in the dark.

Anyway, just thinking through it to help brainstorm ideas for names and further expansion of the mechanics.

"Fog of War" comes to mind. Cogmind currently has lots of ways to get extremely reliable information at a distance. Even corruption only affects sensors if you don't have a signal interpreter. If the Complex took Cogmind (and/or NPCs) seriously as a threat, it wouldn't have so much info be unsecured on its network. "Super Fog of War" could remove, or make unreliable (e.g. sometimes they give false info) all ways of getting map and enemy information at a distance: e.g. you can't always trust what sensor or terrain scanner shows or it might be scrambled by installations even starting in Research, access(*) and enumerate(*) hacks don't work, trojans that show you where robots are or let you know when they've been dispatched don't work. RIF should probably be disabled too. 010b decoders should maybe remain as thematically the idea is they are able to access the encoded transmissions in the Complex.

Not sure whether this should apply in caves or if sensors / terrain scanners should work there -- because the Complex installations aren't there - could also be fun if outposts in the caves had a local scrambling installation so as you get near them (within 50 tiles?) your sensors / terrain scanners stop working. They would be maybe a little harder to avoid then.
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2019, 06:52:44 PM »

So I think Cogmind has a fairly pronounced skill floor relative to its actual difficulty, specifically learning the game is very complex but once you're no longer in unfamiliar territory it's not that difficult to be consistently unstoppable, I'd say typically this has applied to around or more than half of the people in the top 5 of the leaderboards.
By "above roguelike" I take it you meant above Rogue, and yep, I have been considering that occasionally! There would actually be some nontrivial technical problems there, but yeah it would kinda be nice in some ways since it's true that winning becomes relatively easy once you really know what you're doing.

That is the goal, though, to create a roguelike which is reliably winnable every run when you're good. And that said, the situation is also a little more complicated with Cogmind because there are multiple endings and the hardest extended endings are not reliably winnable for almost anyone! By design you can still always "win," of course, by backing out when you need to, but only a small handful of people can actually repeatedly overcoming the hardest challenges.

I do like the idea of a mode that's harder across the board in fundamental ways, though, just to, you know, "make the entirety of 0b10 hard again" once you're a great player, yeah? (Since at that point it can possibly become more of a slow-prep slog for people who are just using the early game to build up for the late game, rather than trying to survive. That said, in doing this it could theoretically make the extended late game far too hard for almost anyone to complete due to attrition...) Anyway, this could be something to introduce purely as a challenge mode instead of a regular difficulty mode, at least to test it out and see what happens. I mean... just an outright Nightmare challenge? :)

And if you'd like some feedback on that, regardless of what the specific hierarchy is I would consider flight, hover and treads to share tier-1 prop status at this point.
Thanks for the confirmation, I agree! As you say though, treads still have their difficult areas and are more challenging, but when they're played the best they can be, they do shine well.

Also if you're wondering how to counteract the playerbase's inevitable complaints about how there's no reason to play legs despite the fact that the prop is still pretty good (looks worse with Hcp existing though), then I'd like to suggest upping the max range of ramming to 200 to truly incentivize the kick build when adv. force boosters are found, what could go wrong?  <--- Unbiased player who never abused this mechanic.
Hahahahaha xD
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

GJ

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Bug Hunter
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #58 on: December 25, 2019, 08:00:12 AM »

To be more specific re: winning at all vs extended wins, I believe Ascended+ is hyperconsistent for every major playstyle. Such a win is in some ways skewed towards what one might call "spoilery" knowledge rather than "playing well", there's not really a strong demand for more general skills there, just some strong nuts to crack towards the lategame, but it's always the same nuts and once you know how to crack 'em it's very risk-free even with less shiny loadouts. Navigating Research and Access are the semi-nuts where's there's also actual significant variance and "skill" involved, at least on slow combat. And while Command is the main just-crack-it nut, I also think that's fine and don't think it should change much if at all as the map currently works very well with the rest of the game, it's a part of the whole Research-->Access-->Win++ transition so of course you can't just look at the challenge presented by that one map on its own. The high-sec arcs resulting in more core attrition and that approach being a bit less attractive was however a minor but welcome change to how this map can play out.

Ascended++ feels rather different in this regard, mainly due to the second + on slow combat, it has a level of challenging variance that will often require you to actually play well relative to the situation you find yourself in. The degree of attrition you encounter here feels pretty good in terms of excitement and how punishing it can be. For slow combat it's a fairly complex game of numbers and it's nice how integrity redistributor isn't outright great due to the Exp. Core Analyzer, both core and part integrity can make the difference between failure/success, and I think the difference between a standard++ and w6++ is something like the more fragile one of those lasting 20%-30% longer. Several w1/w2/w6 ++ runs finish with low remaining integrity, so that works out nicely. Fast builds do feel like they have some rather trivial solutions for ++, in particular a fast and fighty build doesn't really have any major attrition threat attached to it, assuming even just coming in with mundane items like adv. phase shifter(s) and 1x imp. weapon shielding (weapon loadout needs to be a bit non-mundane), and these fast builds become particularly easy with access to redistribution.

Ascended+ is consistent to a point where the fun of it suffers and personally I think the biggest issue here is that some of the skill in playing Research has disappeared. Initially the reason I disliked garrisons announcing their presence so clearly is that playing around "there might be a garrison here and that's why I'm getting stuck" was the main skill aspect of Factory and the main way those floors ever went out of control and became fun, but the issue of Factory depths being a slog has kinda been solved in other ways, some additional challenges and more importantly some real and common reasons to not just do every Caves branch, that feels good, just Factory depths going by faster is nice regardless of challenge/variance. But Research I think has just fallen into being much easier while (thus) becoming less varied, struggling to keep things under control was always the main variance/fun of R. If we split Research maps into two initial outcomes depending on whether you quickly encounter Operators or not, they kinda reach the same outcome: if you don't see them, there's no reinforcements, terminals don't get locked, easy going. If you see one, it represents an opportunity to dump NC couplers into purging and you can potentially grab 2x hackware off it, that completely makes up for the reinforcement it might call on you, the impact of Hcp on this sort of playstyle is probably bigger than one would expect. And RIF means you don't get into fights near garrisons, and of course R branches are much easier, even something kinda niche like exiting an R branch via a garrison is at times relevant. I dunno if the playerbase still scoffs at RIF but any claim that the RIF choice itself is too weak (rather than combat couplers specifically) has been pretty much the opposite of the truth since RIF was introduced.

I'd like to put out the notion that every run being reliably winnable has some anti-synergy with designing around rebuilds from scratch or very little being explicitly possible, in the sense that the more emphasis there is on the former the less likely the latter is to ever happen. And I assume you're not actually putting a hard emphasis on "every" and "reliably" and are in fact referring to such things as the game having been designed to allow for rebuilds into wins. At the same time these sorts of exciting rebuilds don't even happen if things don't go out of control and whether you can escape a horrible situation into a successful rebuild is always going to be (and should be) a little bit inconsistent. Currently the game is hyperconsistent mainly due to a lack of things ever going wrong, I think more so than infowar items it's just the general difficulty of the game at this point. To some extent it's the info you get for free which is why I'm suggesting this challenge mode (and I really think this info has a big impact on ensuring that you're always relatively safe as long as you don't misplay part attrition management), to some extent it's RIF mechanics and to a small extent it's machine hacking still feeling a bit easy. Given what I'm actually interested in playing these seem more impactful to me than sensors, though I'm sure fast builds still abuse sensors like crazy even with jamming, I probably still hold the position that that has more to do with fast speeds being inherently abusive rather than sensors themselves.

Quote
That said, in doing this it could theoretically make the extended late game far too hard for almost anyone to complete due to attrition...)
I'm inclined to believe this isn't very likely to happen, w.r.t. great players harder 0b10 is probably mostly just going to make main floors more exciting. Many branches offer the possibility for a complete rebuild into something rather good from scratch and this isn't often taken advantage of due to it not being necessary. The design of -1 is such that you can often punch your way to the endgame with the straightest possible route and/or there's some limit to how nightmarish it can be even when you have alert issues. There are also good/great items to acquire in Command and if core integrity becomes clearly the main issue then Core Shieldings do exist and are kind of readily available. The main thing to worry about is probably alert being nightmarish in S7 for slow combat, to some extent this doesn't even need to be possible as the map isn't outright necessary for ++ though you'd like it to be possible sometimes if you're running an impressive control+combat hybrid. And I guess S7 being harder to control would give you reasons to actually plant a node there which I haven't been doing due to all them sec-1 terminals.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 08:05:03 AM by GJ »
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2019, 01:24:29 AM »

Quote
I dunno if the playerbase still scoffs at RIF but any claim that the RIF choice itself is too weak
For sure not the case these days. Many people rely on it now as part of major strategies, even into extended. According to the latest stats, 14.6% of winners had RIF installed in Beta 8.

Quote
I'd like to put out the notion that every run being reliably winnable has some anti-synergy with designing around rebuilds from scratch or very little being explicitly possible, in the sense that the more emphasis there is on the former the less likely the latter is to ever happen.
Right though I think this also depends on whether you're insistent on getting a particular type of win, because when I think "reliable" I'm thinking it was designed such that you can generally bail out of a given target and go for an easier win if your goal is just "to win in some way." After all, the basic win is so much easier than the others, and sticking to common effective strategies and possibly with support from a branch or two you can probably fairly easily win via Access, even rebuilding from scratch some times along the way. The design goal of allowing for significant rebuilding is not meant to apply once you're headed into extended or doing any of the more challenging endings. In this way I think they're separate concerns.

Quote
though I'm sure fast builds still abuse sensors like crazy even with jamming, I probably still hold the position that that has more to do with fast speeds being inherently abusive rather than sensors themselves.
I agree, sensors are more supplementary here, and quite useful while not being absolutely essential because speed alone can deal with most trouble. This is still something we talk about on the Discord (even very recently), ways to counteract speed without throwing off all the balance. New content/mechanics, right? :P

I still have a lot of the old ideas floating around, but things have only been changing gradually in that regard, i.e. giving heavy combat more buffs while also nerfing the heavy combat flying builds that had started to appear. Still more to do in this regard, but it's complicated...
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

Joshua

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Bug Hunter Weekly Seed Participant Shared a Confirmed Combat Win Shared a Confirmed Stealth Win
  • Posts: 319
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2020, 03:30:48 PM »

This may belong in the bad ideas thread: a "Grunts Fly" challenge (possibly an AFD mode). i.e. Grunts, and maybe Hunters would be reconfigured to have enough flight propulsion to move fast xD
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2020, 04:39:46 PM »

Haha that indeed sounds like the threads are being crossed :P

Why stop at those--at that point why not just make everything fly!
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

Joshua

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Bug Hunter Weekly Seed Participant Shared a Confirmed Combat Win Shared a Confirmed Stealth Win
  • Posts: 319
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2020, 06:39:39 PM »

Haha that indeed sounds like the threads are being crossed :P

Why stop at those--at that point why not just make everything fly!

Because it just doesn't seem right to have flying Behemoths! :)  But it would definitely change the fight/run/hide calculus if the most common enemies were much faster...
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2020, 07:26:28 PM »

flying Behemoths!
But that's the first thing I thought of!!!
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

R-26 Lightspeed

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2021, 09:49:08 AM »

How about a challenge mode where "you can't read"?(except the tiles on ASCII mode and the hostile identification tags and other such things that would give ASCII users a disadvantage, of course.)
You wouldn't be able to know if an alert was for some operator spotting you, or if was for an assault or extermination squad, or even a corrupted worker bot triggering an alarm. Non-indirect hacking would be more difficult, and so on.
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2021, 04:52:20 PM »

Heh, sounds pretty weird... So does this mean you also don't get to see the names of parts, attached or in inventory or on the ground etc? I imagine this is probably just more frustrating than challenging :P
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

R-26 Lightspeed

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2021, 10:43:16 AM »

I'm not sure. I had the idea after reading a post by someone saying they didn't actually need to read to understand most things, and that seemed incredibly interesting to me.
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2021, 09:08:02 PM »

Ah, indeed yeah you can get by with relatively little reading aside from watching some basic numbers on the map, as it was designed with that in mind. Obviously for the greatest level of detail and min-maxing (or figuring out lore, intel, and related strategies) you'd end up reading more, but in general it's at least not log-heavy...
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

R-26 Lightspeed

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2022, 10:07:58 AM »

ExtremePrecautions : You can't attach anything you don't currently recognize. When one of your parts gets destroyed, you lose knowledge of said part, unless something that normally prevents it like having another instance of that part in your inventory/equipped occurs. Component Analysis Suites turn into matter when standing on them or having them in inventory (I can't recall, do
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
directly into your inventory?)
Logged

S0ZDATEL

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2022, 12:44:01 PM »

The Unaware:
The main idea is that you are playing as an Unaware robot and part of the Compelex. May add or remove features about this mode as you feel fits better, this is just an example.
  • You are in the Unaware faction, all the Complex is friendly to you, but Derelicts and others are hostile.
  • Currently the Complex is being breached, some floors are under Derelict attack, others are flooded with Assembled.
  • You can't attach non-Unaware parts (like Exiles' prototypes, makeshift parts, etc.)
  • You know all Unaware-controlled maps.
  • Defeat Cogmind at the end (may use modofication of Player 2 AI).
Logged

R-26 Lightspeed

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #70 on: May 07, 2022, 03:39:18 AM »

Decay : Your non-core part with the highest coverage loses one max integrity point every turn (Could be less at the start of the run and become more frequent every floor).
(For example, if a part is at 110/110, after Decay damage it'll have 109/109, and if it was at 100/110, Decay damage would reduce it to 100/109.)
If a part has applicable shielding, maybe the shielding would take the damage instead?
If there are no parts left, Cogmind takes damage instead.

SuperDecay : Same as Decay, except targeted parts also lose one integrity point when they lose max integrity.
For example, if a part is at 110/110, after SuperDecay damage it'll have 109/109, and if it was at 100/110, SuperDecay damage would reduce it to 99/109.


LimitedRating : Every floor has a total rating limit you cannot go above. For example, -5 could place that limit at let's say 90, which would mean the combined rating of all of Cogmind's equipped parts would have to be at or below 90.
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2022, 05:44:40 AM »

Interestingly I made a decay-like mode a long while ago that wasn't released (except to patrons), as a way to implement real-time mechanics (decaying in real time, so you have to play fast and can actually heal via destruction).
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

R-26 Lightspeed

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2022, 10:33:08 AM »

Quote
SuperPatrols
Haha, you know, this would cause a serious hit to FPS--big slowdown and stuttering on large maps!

Part of the initial reason the game was designed around patrols (and non-busy bots in general) moving at a slower pace (tweaked per class) is because having everyone move at full speed is just way too much pathfinding.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 04:56:07 PM by Kyzrati »
Logged

R-26 Lightspeed

  • Sigix
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
    • View Profile
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2022, 10:20:49 AM »

Quote
SuperPatrols
Haha, you know, this would cause a serious hit to FPS--big slowdown and stuttering on large maps!

Part of the initial reason the game was designed around patrols (and non-busy bots in general) moving at a slower pace (tweaked per class) is because having everyone move at full speed is just way too much pathfinding.
I see.
Also, you appear to have edited my message instead of posting one of your own.
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Challenge Modes
« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2022, 05:05:51 PM »

Oh sheesh I hit Modify instead of Quote--first time I've done that xD

For the record, "SuperPatrols" was primarily referring to allowing all patrols to always move at full speed.
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4