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[DDarkray]

Pun intended. 

So I was wondering, is there any plan to buff the wheel propulsion? If not, I was thinking if it's a good idea to make a good hit-and-run play style with it. Just like how cars accelerate, wheels start with normal speed but get faster (use less time to move) as you build momentum. Maybe cancel out the accuracy loss from firing weapons while moving on wheels (since the wheels' momentum help you move, so you can concentrate more on attacking). Of course, once your momentum is zero, you're not speedy anymore.

[Kyzrati]

Hehe, wheels were never intended to be a propulsion players take by choice, no. The idea is they have pretty good speed and support, but are physically weak and can be found almost anywhere in a pinch because most non-combat robots use them. They are somewhat better than they used to be in the earliest versions, with extra support, but I don't feel that everything needs to be perfectly balanced in terms of capabilities (in this case their ubiquity is part of their advantage not reflected directly in their stats).

Giving them some other kind of benefit could be interesting, and the gameplay effects of an acceleration concept are worth considering (the accuracy idea I don't think would fit well enough, logically speaking, once compared to other forms of transportation like hover). Someone in chat mentioned wheel acceleration before as well.

Other opinions on wheels and momentum-based acceleration?

[qalnor]

Sounds fun to me, although I think that there's a fine line between it being balanced, fun and consistent with the rest of gameplay. I'm not really sure if I'd want my robot to keep rolling because I forget to hit the brakes but on the other hand if there's no realisticish consequences to momentum then really what you're doing is balancing a reward for players for moving continuously in a straight line against a punishment for when they don't do so.

[Kyzrati]

Oh momentum in this case wouldn't mean that you'd have to actively stop, it would purely be a benefit. And momentum is already an existing mechanic that affects melee combat.

Though as you say, as additional effect like this will be compared against not doing it. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a punishment, if all it means is giving extra speed beyond the status quo.

I'm not to keen on a change like this, anyway, but other opinions for effects or unique takes on wheel mechanics are welcome.

[zxc]

Huh, yeah that sounds interesting... the longer you move in a direction, the faster you go. Speed down corridors at 10 or less!

[Happylisk]

I'd leave as is.  They fill a small "oh crap I need propulsion" niche and that's fine.  Make them support more or have better integrity and they begin stepping on legs.  Make them faster and they begin stepping on hover/flight.  Do both and they might even be OP.  Like K said, not everything needs to be optimal or even viable. 

With that said, some in-game indication for newbies that wheels are suboptimal might be a nice touch.  Perhaps dialogue in Zion (and it's possible it already exists, I haven't talked to all Zionites (Zionists?(Zionistas?(Zionesians?))). 

e: with that said, a brand exclusive cache of wheels that can't be found anywhere else and actually kick ass would be fun.

[zxc]

I think the main thing to do with wheels is to remove them from the scrapyard floor. It gives the false impression that they are equivalent to legs or treads. You can already get wheels from the civilian robots there if you really wanted them.

If there is a need to replace the wheels in the scrapyard with something else, then I suppose it should be hover units. Flight is too powerful and it's kind of cool to have them be something you have to find and transition into using. Hover units are hard enough to find as it is, and I think would provide for an interesting decision at the start of the game. They would likely become the default propulsion to start with though, until you find storage units or flight units.

otoh it's cool having innate hover as a high speed option if you are willing to travel very light...

[Happylisk]

+1 to removing wheels from the scrapyard.  Always a subpar choice and their availability sends a misleading signal.

[DDarkray]

I think the main thing to do with wheels is to remove them from the scrapyard floor. It gives the false impression that they are equivalent to legs or treads. You can already get wheels from the civilian robots there if you really wanted them.

I totally agree with this. I still remember using wheels as my primary propulsion during my first few runs. Can you imagine how happy I was when I got armored wheels?

[Kyzrati]

Hover units are hard enough to find as it is, and I think would provide for an interesting decision at the start of the game. They would likely become the default propulsion to start with though, until you find storage units or flight units.

I would totally still take legs

The thing with hover is it's blown off even more easily than early-game wheels. What beginners in the early game really need is high integrity.

I agree that having wheels in the Scrapyard is misleading, though thematically speaking it would be a shame to remove them since they are the simplest and most commonly used form of non-combat propulsion out there, after all.

All that said, we do already have legs and treads in the scrapyard, so replacing wheels with hover is okay as another option, sure. I guess the same should be done for the tutorial as well... I don't believe these changes will have a huge impact on beginner perception, though, because they're still going to be seeing wheels all over the place among the rubble.

e: with that said, a brand exclusive cache of wheels that can't be found anywhere else and actually kick ass would be fun.

Well, there are the Centrium wheel variants, which are wheels that won't quite get blown off so quickly, but by that point in the game (as with elsewhere) you're unlikely to use them except as a backup. (Maybe DDarkray would be really really happy to find Centrium wheels? )

[CaptainWinky]

After some experimentation, I actually equip the starting wheels simply because they're moderately fast, the fastest of the three starting choices, and they can still support an ion engine and whatever guns you equip right off the bat.  I carry the legs with me in case I get really unlucky and the wheels get blown off right away.  That initial speed from the wheels helps avoid detection at the start of -10.  Then as I find more items, I can switch to hover/flight or legs/treads depending on what I feel like doing.

They're definitely not something that I like to use long-term but their availability and their okay support value is still decent for an emergency.

[Kyzrati]

That's an interesting approach for the beginning there. Does make sense since at that point you have the surplus inventory space to carry backup legs anyway, and you've obviously caught on that being fast and staying out of trouble is the key to safer survival.

Beyond the early game, wheels have saved plenty of Cogminds in emergency situations, that's for sure!

[Draco18s]

I actually like wheels <..<
Yeah, they have their downsides, but the fact that I can find them really easily (and are faster than treads) make them reliable.  Not that I won't go legs if I find legs, just that I like wheels.  Giving them a momentum bonus*/acceleration effect would be pretty neat, though.

*Not necessarily associated with the melee effect; I don't use melee and probably never will except as a last resort.