Alpha 11 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]

Kyzrati · October 19, 2016, 08:14:46 AM

That nice round number sure did stand out

The caves aren't quite as bad as some assume, with the right tactics. Replacement parts are certainly harder to find lying around, but there are still several ways to relatively reliably salvage them from other bots. (But yeah I'd never want to go in without a full inventory!)

zxc · October 19, 2016, 09:39:19 AM

Well, the way I look at it, the build isn't running yet when you reach the caves. I think you need a certain critical mass of offensive utilities before they suddenly become godlike, and I'm finding that this happens around -2.

I just had an unsuccessful run (for once):

Code Select

Cogmind - Alpha 11

Name: zzxc

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

 Performance 
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (584)     2920
Value Destroyed (29718)    29718
Prototype IDs (32)         640
Alien Tech Recovered (0)   0
Bonus (2500)               2500
              TOTAL SCORE: 40278

 Cogmind 
---------
Core Integrity             0/1600
Matter                     177/300
Energy                     46/100
System Corruption          18%
Temperature                Cool (0)
Location                   -1/Access

 Parts 
-------
Power (4)
  (None)
Propulsion (2)
  Diametric Drive
Utility (14)
  (None)
Weapon (5)
  (None)
Inventory (4)
  Diametric Drive
  Diametric Drive
  Diametric Drive
  Diametric Drive

 Peak State 
------------
Power
  Anti-Matter Reactor
  Light Particle Reactor
  Light Particle Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
  Medium Treads
  Medium Treads
Utility
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Large Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  Spectral Analyzer
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Experimental Weapon Cycler
Weapon
  Phase Gun
  Heavy Wave Gun
  Heavy Quantum Rifle
  KE Penetrator
  KE Penetrator
Inventory
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Flexi-carbon Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Large Storage Unit
  Medium Matter Storage Unit
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Experimental Weapon Cycler
  Phase Gun
  Phase Gun
  Gamma Rifle
  Heavy Machine Gun
[Rating: 166]

 Favorites 
-----------
Power                      Light Quantum Reactor
  Engine                   Reinforced Deuterium Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion                 Centrium Heavy Treads
  Treads                   Centrium Heavy Treads
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Flight Unit              Diametric Drive
Utility                    Large Storage Unit
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  Large Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Target Analyzer
  Hackware                 Advanced Hacking Suite
  Protection               Medium Regenerative Plating
Weapon                     KE Penetrator
  Energy Gun               Tesla Rifle
  Energy Cannon            EM Pulse Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            KE Penetrator
  Ballistic Cannon         Gauss Cannon
  Launcher                 Scatter Rocket Array

 Stats 
-------
Bonus Breakdown            2500
  Met R17 at Cetus         500
  Met R17 at Research      2000
Classes Destroyed          23
  Worker                   43
  Builder                  35
  Tunneler                 6
  Hauler                   23
  Recycler                 44
  Carrier                  3
  Mechanic                 2
  Operator                 6
  Watcher                  20
  Swarmer                  32
  Saboteur                 4
  Grunt                    199
  Brawler                  13
  Duelist                  11
  Protector                6
  Researcher               4
  Sentry                   38
  Demolisher               2
  Specialist               2
  Hunter                   38
  Programmer               51
  Behemoth                 1
  Striker                  1
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           29
  Combat Bots Only         13
Matter Collected           15360
  Salvage Created          40005
Parts Attached             600
  Power                    106
  Propulsion               74
  Utility                  205
  Weapon                   215
Parts Lost                 217
  Power                    36
  Propulsion               17
  Utility                  53
  Weapon                   111
Average Slot Usage (%)     95
  Naked Turns              10
Spaces Moved               6442
  Fastest Speed (%)        270
  Average Speed (%)        57
  Slowest Speed (%)        45
  Overloaded Moves         12
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           1
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
Heaviest Build             146
  Greatest Support         80
  Greatest Overweight (x)  37
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          16
  Average Capacity         14
  Most Items Carried       16
  Average Items Carried    14
  Final Capacity           8
  Final Carried            8
Core Damage Taken          4915
Average Core Remaining (%) 60
  Depth 11 Exit            100
  Depth 10 Exit            56
  Depth 9 Exit             50
  Depth 8 Exit             79
  Depth 7 Exit             6
  Depth 6 Exit             99
  Depth 5 Exit             12
  Depth 4 Exit             79
  Depth 3 Exit             97
  Depth 2 Exit             25
Volleys Fired              1048
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  439
Shots Fired                3847
  Gun                      3293
  Cannon                   537
  Launcher                 17
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  2294
  Thermal                  808
  Explosive                17
  Electromagnetic          728
Shots Hit Robots           2365
  Core Hits                1105
Critical Hits              619
  Kills                    228
  Parts Destroyed          336
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           67228
  Projectiles              62838
  Explosions               4376
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  14
  Kinetic                  36975
  Thermal                  16180
  Explosive                2832
  Electromagnetic          11227
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      664
  Shots                    20
  Rammed                   1
Highest Temperature        460
  Average Temperature      78
  Shutdowns                8
  Energy Bleed             7
  Interference             4
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           1
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         59
  Average Corruption       19
  Message Errors           129
  Parts Rejected           31
  Data loss (map)          136
  Data loss (database)     78
  Misfires                 20
  Misdirections            73
  Targeting Errors         581
  Weapon Failures          106
  Depth 8 End              1
  Depth 7 End              1
  Depth 5 End              23
  Depth 4 End              6
  Depth 2 End              59
Haulers Intercepted        23
Robots Corrupted           11
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      19
Tactical Retreats          64
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       4
  Retrieved Matter         79
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            20
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   5576
Machines Disabled          67
Data Cores Recovered       2
  Used                     1
Machines Hacked            59
  Terminals                46
  Fabricators              3
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          2
  Scanalyzers              3
  Garrison Access          5
Total Hacks                158
  Successful               53
  Failed                   105
  Catastrophic             36
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   30
  Unauthorized             4
  Terminals                133
  Fabricators              6
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          5
  Scanalyzers              8
  Garrison Access          6
Terminal Hacks             40
  Part Schematic           3
  Robot Schematic          1
  Robot Analysis           2
  Prototype ID Bank        2
  Open Door                6
  Level Access Points      1
  Branch Access Points     1
  Emergency Access Points  1
  Terminal Index           1
  Alert Level              4
  Unreport Threat          5
  Locate Traps             3
  Reprogram Traps          1
  Dispatch Records         1
  Recall Assault           1
  Hauler Manifests         2
  Zone Layout              1
  Machine Controls         4
Hacking Detections         54
  Full Trace Events        9
  Feedback Events          0
  Feedback Corruption      0
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Trojans Installed          3
  Terminals                2
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          1
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Fabricators Overloaded     0
Garrisons Disabled         4
Garrisons Compromised      0
Fab Network Shutdowns      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  1
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   6
  Parts Built              1
  Total Part Build Rating  2
  Part Fabrication Matter  124
  Part Fabrication Time    20
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
  Retrieved Components     3
Parts Scanalyzed           4
  Part Schematics Acquired 3
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       2
Robots Rewired             11
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               11
  Largest Group            7
  Highest-Rated Group      115
  Highest-Rated Ally       65
Total Orders               0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               74
  Total Damage             1582
  Kills                    12
Allies Corrupted           15
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             3303
  Average Influence        897
  Final Influence          1891
Maximum Alert Level        5
  Low Security (%)         9
  Level 1                  26
  Level 2                  17
  Level 3                  16
  Level 4                  12
  Level 5                  16
Squads Dispatched          111
  Investigation            12
  Extermination            15
  Reinforcement            32
  Assault                  36
  Garrison                 8
  Intercept                8
Derelict Logs Recovered    0
Exploration Rate (%)       18
  Regions Visited          16
  Pre-discovered Areas     0
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Network Hubs Disabled      0
Actions Taken              9955
Turns Passed               17346
  Depth 11                 56
  Depth 10                 671
  Depth 9                  973
  Depth 8                  1476
  Depth 7                  1807
  Depth 6                  170
  Depth 5                  5410
  Depth 4                  746
  Depth 3                  1209
  Depth 2                  4430
  Depth 1                  398
  Scrapyard                56
  Materials                3120
  Factory                  5099
  Research                 3430
  Access                   398
  Waste                    591
  Extension                1701
  Cetus                    742
  Testing                  2209

 Prototype IDs 
---------------
Heavy Deuterium Engine
Compact Particle Reactor
Improved Quantum Reactor
Centrium Heavy Treads
Spectral Analyzer
Experimental Signal Interpreter
Precision Energy Filter
Experimental Weapon Cycler
Centrium Medium Armor Plating
Advanced Dynamic Insulation System
Experimental Field Recycling Unit
Precision Beam Rifle
Advanced Beam Rifle
Heavy Wave Gun
Advanced Variable Charge Gun
Precision Phase Gun
Heavy Quantum Rifle
Heavy Tesla Rifle
Ion Burst Cannon
Enhanced Coil Gun
Improved KE Penetrator
Helical Railgun
Ragnarok Missile Launcher

 Fabricated
------------
1x Imp. Targeting Computer (-2/Testing)

 Alien Tech Recovered 
----------------------
None

 Route 
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials (discovered 2 exits: *Mat / [*Min])
-8/Materials
-7/Factory (discovered 3 exits: *Fac / Low x2)
-6/Factory
-5/Factory
-5/Waste
-5/Factory
-5/Extension (discovered 2 exits: *Fac / *Cet)
-5/Cetus (discovered 2 exits: *Fac / [*Arc])
-4/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Res x4)
-3/Research
-2/Research
-2/Testing
-1/Access (discovered 1 exit: [*Sur])

 Game 
------
Seed: 1476861448
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 249 min
Sessions: 2
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 212
Lore%: 70
Gallery%: 72
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Instant


X=9452128930328051900333370508
377827502239800233377822281711
119780075533323857772035033810
885818885157319105835822785738
020253211503955030902308085309
539133928031138555559383500987
813737339317399380779738138030
888588513737007205555191330735
555553375818575555727377955553
552555755785575821277393381233
339873852901591872585981538109
318758928137090011555555735558
025298357387812928713030953301
805780983388733389553552000059
135729955507778780750393105982
359082080890778955555535598807
783913331987078030302877503081
857802088821028317708880273988
990800518995357333591381002393
239330250923537731201507722953
187338103980370771572095355995
552598138388538310877082033838
832785707822870188288555703551
035317993212379330355392558007
559350075255977517555297883087
03087578820155028339

I was 4 steps from the exit (roughly 2 turns), but this time, luck was not on my side.

I farmed Testing quite thoroughly, but I think I stayed a little too long. I was out of good weapons when I progressed to Access, and could never stabilise. I was forced to use energy weapons, which required a lot of heat sinks, which reduced my offensive capabilities. I was also taking more damage because I couldn't oneshot enemies, and thus I was absorbing a lot of heat from thermal damage.

This game, I tried the opposite of a propulsion stack

. I am not sure how effective it was. While I had armour, the build was monstrous, but I ran out during Testing.

I also enjoy these discussions on strategy.

zxc · October 19, 2016, 10:23:19 AM

Somewhat hidden downside of weapon cyclers: a lot more heat, energy and matter per turn! I felt that several times during Testing.

zxc · October 19, 2016, 11:09:54 AM

Reposts, I know, but this one probably deserves it:

Code Select

Cogmind - Alpha 11

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

 Performance 
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (23)      115
Value Destroyed (629)      629
Prototype IDs (4)          80
Alien Tech Recovered (0)   0
Bonus (57824)              57824
              TOTAL SCORE: 63148

 Cogmind 
---------
Core Integrity             1573/1600
Matter                     2/300
Energy                     181/190
System Corruption          0%
Temperature                Cool (9)
Location                   Surface

 Parts 
-------
Power (4)
  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (8)
  Improved VTOL Module
  Impulse Thruster
  Impulse Thruster
  Diametric Drive
Utility (11)
  Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Advanced Visual Processing Unit
  Enhanced Optical Array
  Advanced Sensor Array
  Centrium Medium Armor Plating
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced Hacking Suite
  Improved System Shield
Weapon (2)
  (None)
Inventory (4)
  Particle Reactor
  Particle Reactor
  Enhanced Nova Cannon
  Lance

 Peak State 
------------
Power
  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
  Particle Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved VTOL Module
  Improved VTOL Module
  Improved VTOL Module
  Xenon Bombardment Thruster
  Impulse Thruster
  Diametric Drive
  Impulse Thruster Array
Utility
  Advanced Cooling System
  Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Advanced Visual Processing Unit
  Enhanced Optical Array
  Advanced Sensor Array
  Centrium Medium Armor Plating
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced Hacking Suite
Weapon
  (None)
Inventory
  Particle Reactor
  Particle Reactor
  Neutron Missile Launcher
[Rating: 120]

 Favorites 
-----------
Power                      Light Nuclear Core
  Engine                   Light Ion Engine
  Power Core               Light Nuclear Core
  Reactor                  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion                 Improved VTOL Module
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Flight Unit              Improved VTOL Module
Utility                    Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Device                   Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Processor                Advanced Visual Processing Unit
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
  Protection               Power Shielding
Weapon                     Heavy Pick
  Launcher                 Grenade Launcher
  Piercing Weapon          Heavy Pick

 Stats 
-------
Bonus Breakdown            57824
  Win                      3000
  Win Speed                54824
Classes Destroyed          5
  Worker                   1
  Builder                  1
  Hauler                   1
  Recycler                 1
  Swarmer                  19
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           5
  Combat Bots Only         4
Matter Collected           537
  Salvage Created          503
Parts Attached             54
  Power                    11
  Propulsion               18
  Utility                  19
  Weapon                   6
Parts Lost                 23
  Power                    7
  Propulsion               8
  Utility                  5
  Weapon                   3
Average Slot Usage (%)     68
  Naked Turns              5
Spaces Moved               2463
  Fastest Speed (%)        588
  Average Speed (%)        375
  Slowest Speed (%)        149
  Overloaded Moves         153
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           4
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
Heaviest Build             68
  Greatest Support         98
  Greatest Overweight (x)  1
  Average Overweight (x)   0
Largest Inventory          4
  Average Capacity         4
  Most Items Carried       4
  Average Items Carried    3
  Final Capacity           4
  Final Carried            4
Core Damage Taken          612
Average Core Remaining (%) 93
  Depth 11 Exit            100
  Depth 10 Exit            95
  Depth 9 Exit             89
  Depth 8 Exit             88
  Depth 7 Exit             96
  Depth 6 Exit             98
  Depth 5 Exit             100
  Depth 4 Exit             97
  Depth 3 Exit             100
  Depth 2 Exit             72
  Depth 1 Exit             98
Volleys Fired              19
  Largest                  1
  Hottest                  49
Shots Fired                19
  Gun                      0
  Cannon                   0
  Launcher                 19
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  0
  Thermal                  0
  Explosive                19
  Electromagnetic          0
Shots Hit Robots           11
  Core Hits                33
Critical Hits              2
  Kills                    0
  Parts Destroyed          1
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              10
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 10
Damage Inflicted           2323
  Projectiles              0
  Explosions               2032
  Melee                    268
  Ramming                  23
  Kinetic                  0
  Thermal                  0
  Explosive                2032
  Electromagnetic          0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 268
Self-Inflicted Damage      150
  Shots                    3
  Rammed                   4
Highest Temperature        76
  Average Temperature      15
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Interference             0
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         7
  Average Corruption       3
  Message Errors           0
  Parts Rejected           1
  Data loss (map)          0
  Data loss (database)     0
  Misfires                 0
  Misdirections            1
  Targeting Errors         0
  Weapon Failures          0
  Depth 2 End              7
Haulers Intercepted        1
Robots Corrupted           0
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          12
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            19
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   367
Machines Disabled          3
Data Cores Recovered       0
  Used                     0
Machines Hacked            19
  Terminals                18
  Fabricators              1
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Total Hacks                52
  Successful               7
  Failed                   45
  Catastrophic             15
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   39
  Unauthorized             1
  Terminals                51
  Fabricators              1
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Terminal Hacks             7
  Prototype ID Bank        1
  Open Door                1
  Level Access Points      2
  Disarm Traps             1
  Zone Layout              2
Hacking Detections         19
  Full Trace Events        8
  Feedback Events          0
  Feedback Corruption      0
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Trojans Installed          0
  Terminals                0
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Fabricators Overloaded     0
Garrisons Disabled         0
Garrisons Compromised      0
Fab Network Shutdowns      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   0
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
  Retrieved Components     0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               0
  Largest Group            0
  Highest-Rated Group      0
  Highest-Rated Ally       0
Total Orders               0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             129
  Average Influence        43
  Final Influence          18
Maximum Alert Level        0
  Low Security (%)         100
  Level 1                  0
  Level 2                  0
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          13
  Investigation            9
  Extermination            0
  Reinforcement            4
  Assault                  0
  Garrison                 0
  Intercept                0
Derelict Logs Recovered    0
Exploration Rate (%)       12
  Regions Visited          14
  Pre-discovered Areas     0
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Network Hubs Disabled      0
Actions Taken              2594
Turns Passed               911
  Depth 11                 16
  Depth 10                 43
  Depth 9                  76
  Depth 8                  118
  Depth 7                  65
  Depth 6                  56
  Depth 5                  82
  Depth 4                  94
  Depth 3                  53
  Depth 2                  199
  Depth 1                  109
  Scrapyard                16
  Materials                237
  Factory                  282
  Research                 230
  Access                   109
  Waste                    15
  Testing                  22

 Prototype IDs 
---------------
Improved VTOL Module
Centrium Medium Armor Plating
Improved Heavy Machine Gun
Neutron Missile Launcher

 Fabricated
------------
Nothing

 Alien Tech Recovered 
----------------------
None

 Route 
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials
-8/Materials (discovered 3 exits: *Fac x3)
-7/Factory
-6/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Fac x4)
-5/Factory
-4/Factory
-4/Waste
-4/Factory
-3/Research
-3/Testing
-2/Research
-1/Access
Surface

 Game 
------
Seed: 1476894234
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 38 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 213
Lore%: 70
Gallery%: 72
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Instant


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I tried a turn count speedrun. Honestly didn't expect to succeed on first try... so I had music playing while I recorded it. I intend on doing better, but it's a good start!

911 turns passed. I got unlucky in Research, and also I fell into a chute trap in Factory... I think it can be pushed to 700 or below.

Not sure what to do with the recording, whether to mute it all and upload, or upload as is, or upload as is but unlisted, or...

For now I'll have it unlisted at https://youtu.be/HrSUrI4pCyA

Decker · October 19, 2016, 01:27:42 PM

Quote
TOTAL SCORE: 63148

Congratulations! I'm not beating that!

With the new branches in Research, it's definitely easier to navigate it.

I still don't have a clue on how to beat Access with a combat build aside of being lucky. In my last game I replicated my long-range sensors with the artifact in Quarantine, and I tried to play it as a half-stealth hybrid, killing only the programmer dispatches. No good. I explored about half the map, and I found the cycler but not the exit. All terminals were level 3, so no use. I eventually died to attrition, with parts shot one by one.

Do you use any particular strategy for Access zxc?

Decker · October 19, 2016, 05:15:32 PM

Those speed runs are fun! My first attempt aborted due to not finding any flight units. My second game went much the same way, until I finally bumped into pests and got some flight units. I only found a >1 stash of flight units in Access, after I had located the exit.

1405 turns. Not great but not bad. Pretty easy way to earn high scores. Totally luck dependent.

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 11

Name: Decker

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9) 4500
Robots Destroyed (5) 25
Value Destroyed (123) 123
Prototype IDs (4) 80
Alien Tech Recovered (0) 0
Bonus (38561) 38561
TOTAL SCORE: 43289

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 1549/1600
Matter 6/300
Energy 297/300
System Corruption 6%
Temperature Cool (46)
Location Surface

Parts
-------
Power (3)
Light Nuclear Core
Light Neutrino Core
Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (10)
Durable Medium Treads
Nuclear Pulse Array
Diametric Drive
Impulse Thruster Array
Impulse Thruster Array
Impulse Thruster Array
Utility (10)
Power Amplifier
Experimental Signal Interpreter
Layered Medium Armor Plating
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
System Shield
Improved System Shield
Weapon (2)
(None)
Inventory (4)
Impulse Thruster Array
Enhanced Nova Cannon
Enhanced Nova Cannon

Peak State
------------
Power
Light Nuclear Core
Light Neutrino Core
Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
Durable Medium Treads
Nuclear Pulse Array
Diametric Drive
Impulse Thruster Array
Impulse Thruster Array
Impulse Thruster Array
Utility
Power Amplifier
Experimental Signal Interpreter
Layered Medium Armor Plating
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
System Shield
Improved System Shield
Weapon
(None)
Inventory
Impulse Thruster Array
Enhanced Nova Cannon
Enhanced Nova Cannon
[Rating: 136]

Favorites
-----------
Power Light Neutrino Core
Engine Angular Momentum Engine
Power Core Light Neutrino Core
Reactor Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion Improved Medium Treads
Treads Improved Medium Treads
Wheel Compact Wheel
Hover Unit Hover Unit
Flight Unit Diametric Drive
Utility Hacking Suite
Device Power Amplifier
Processor Advanced Signal Interpreter
Hackware Hacking Suite
Protection Power Shielding
Weapon Chainsword
Launcher Long-range Missile Launcher
Slashing Weapon Chainsword

Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown 38561
Win 3000
Win Speed 35561
Classes Destroyed 2
Hauler 1
Swarmer 4
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 4
Combat Bots Only 4
Matter Collected 369
Salvage Created 131
Parts Attached 60
Power 8
Propulsion 27
Utility 21
Weapon 4
Parts Lost 23
Power 1
Propulsion 14
Utility 7
Weapon 1
Average Slot Usage (%) 55
Naked Turns 2
Spaces Moved 2720
Fastest Speed (%) 357
Average Speed (%) 242
Slowest Speed (%) 62
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 17
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Heaviest Build 49
Greatest Support 184
Greatest Overweight (x) 4
Average Overweight (x) 0
Largest Inventory 4
Average Capacity 4
Most Items Carried 4
Average Items Carried 2
Final Capacity 4
Final Carried 3
Core Damage Taken 1117
Average Core Remaining (%) 86
Depth 11 Exit 100
Depth 10 Exit 91
Depth 9 Exit 80
Depth 8 Exit 88
Depth 7 Exit 43
Depth 6 Exit 86
Depth 5 Exit 97
Depth 4 Exit 95
Depth 3 Exit 94
Depth 2 Exit 84
Depth 1 Exit 96
Volleys Fired 3
Largest 1
Hottest 43
Shots Fired 3
Gun 0
Cannon 0
Launcher 3
Special 0
Kinetic 0
Thermal 0
Explosive 3
Electromagnetic 0
Shots Hit Robots 11
Core Hits 15
Critical Hits 2
Kills 0
Parts Destroyed 2
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 24
Impact 0
Slashing 24
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 810
Projectiles 0
Explosions 307
Melee 410
Ramming 93
Kinetic 0
Thermal 0
Explosive 307
Electromagnetic 0
Impact 0
Slashing 410
Piercing 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 43
Shots 0
Rammed 17
Highest Temperature 91
Average Temperature 48
Shutdowns 0
Energy Bleed 0
Interference 0
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 6
Average Corruption 2
Message Errors 0
Parts Rejected 0
Data loss (map) 1
Data loss (database) 1
Misfires 0
Misdirections 0
Targeting Errors 0
Weapon Failures 0
Depth 7 End 3
Depth 6 End 1
Depth 1 End 6
Haulers Intercepted 1
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 0
Power Chain Reactions 0
Tactical Retreats 19
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 2
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 23
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 649
Machines Disabled 0
Data Cores Recovered 0
Used 0
Machines Hacked 23
Terminals 23
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Total Hacks 73
Successful 13
Failed 59
Catastrophic 25
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 50
Unauthorized 0
Terminals 73
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Terminal Hacks 13
Open Door 1
Level Access Points 4
Terminal Index 1
Unreport Threat 2
Zone Layout 5
Hacking Detections 21
Full Trace Events 14
Feedback Events 0
Feedback Corruption 0
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Trojans Installed 0
Terminals 0
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Fabricators Overloaded 0
Garrisons Disabled 1
Garrisons Compromised 0
Fab Network Shutdowns 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 0
Part Repair Time 0
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Retrieved Components 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 2
Largest Group 2
Highest-Rated Group 10
Highest-Rated Ally 5
Total Orders 1
EXPLORE 1
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 126
Average Influence 17
Final Influence 42
Maximum Alert Level 0
Low Security (%) 100
Level 1 0
Level 2 0
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 24
Investigation 16
Extermination 0
Reinforcement 8
Assault 0
Garrison 0
Intercept 0
Derelict Logs Recovered 0
Exploration Rate (%) 15
Regions Visited 11
Pre-discovered Areas 0
Garrisons Visited 0
Relays Disabled 0
Generators Disabled 0
Network Hubs Disabled 0
Actions Taken 2867
Turns Passed 1405
Depth 11 13
Depth 10 96
Depth 9 67
Depth 8 57
Depth 7 259
Depth 6 205
Depth 5 78
Depth 4 80
Depth 3 152
Depth 2 185
Depth 1 213
Scrapyard 13
Materials 220
Factory 622
Research 337
Access 213

Prototype IDs
---------------
Light Neutrino Core
Improved Quantum Reactor
Experimental Signal Interpreter
Precision Energy Filter

Fabricated
------------
Nothing

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials (discovered 4 exits: *Mat x3 / [*Min])
-9/Materials
-8/Materials
-7/Factory
-6/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Fac x4)
-5/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Fac x4)
-4/Factory
-3/Research
-2/Research
-1/Access
Surface

Game
------
Seed: 1476916131
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 37 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 84
Lore%: 49
Gallery%: 78
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 66x50
FOV Handling: Instant

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[close]

Kyzrati · October 19, 2016, 06:04:51 PM

Quote from: Decker on October 19, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
Congratulations! I'm not beating that!

Oh I think you can! There are many new sources of bonus points, together with ways to vastly improve your capabilities. So that stacked on to your previous high score could pull it off, but only a winning run can capitalize on it all.

Nice speed run

zxc · October 19, 2016, 11:45:42 PM

Thanks, yeah these speed runs are lots of fun. And certainly easier to get a decent score with than combat. However, I still think the sky's the limit with a combat run, but it's difficult for everything to go right.

I don't think the speed runs are totally luck dependent, though. I got bad luck in Research and still managed to reach Access in a workable state. As for finding flight units, I rely on finding a cache somewhere in Materials or Factory. However, the default hover is not bad (50 vs 40 with a flight unit).

Sherlockkat · October 20, 2016, 12:39:17 AM

win#3:

So, still slowly catching up with zxc lorewise :p. Unfortunately, I don't get to play too much these days.
I was roughly aiming to continue Zhirov's plot arc. So, that meant either armory or testing. Unfortunately Zhirov spawned in -4 and testing spawned in -3. So, had to pick between the Armory or Testing. My build wasn't very sturdy anyway, so went with testing. Testing was somewhat tense. Unfortunately, I was too engrossed to take screenshots. So...assume that it was exciting :p.

Finally got to access and wow..Zhirov delivered. Easiest access ever.

Spoiler

Bunch of wimps though. Couldn't handle a squad of grunts.

[close]

I also found the warlord on the way and got out instantly (like in 9 turns). I lost the previous run derping around the warlord. Got shredded on the way out. Those messages are somewhat misleading. Maybe I am supposed to wait till the counter attack starts...shrugs.

Kyzrati · October 20, 2016, 12:49:37 AM

Scientist Dude is not really much of a fighter

Quote from: Sherlockkat on October 20, 2016, 12:39:17 AM
Those messages are somewhat misleading. Maybe I am supposed to wait till the counter attack starts...shrugs.

Which messages? Maybe you haven't been back in the latest version, but in Alpha 11 there's a derelict which comes up to you when the counterattack starts and explicitly instructs you to leave immediately. You can leave before (or *gulp* after) that, but it's harder...

Sherlockkat · October 20, 2016, 12:53:22 AM

:Well, I assumed that the PSA messages announcing the different MAIN.C squads kick once the squad pushes into the base's entrance. Turns out they announce when the squads spawn, which was right by the exit. So, I waited for the announcement and flew towards the exit and was greeted by the announced squads. Did not go well :p.

edit: I actually tried to leave when the MAIN.C's assault begins. Didn't realize that I had to wait until the coast is clear.

Kyzrati · October 20, 2016, 01:02:22 AM

You can leave when it begins, too--just have to be careful! The biggest problem comes when they actually make it into the base interior itself, hence the newly-added final warning.

zxc · October 20, 2016, 02:27:39 AM

Scrap what I said earlier about speed runs not being luck dependent. I just had several attempts at beating my run, and I never found flight units or had anything go my way. I must've been quite lucky with my first try...

I don't know why, but my first attempt at things like realtime speedruns, turncount speedruns, pacifist runs... etc always seem blessed, and then I struggle in subsequent tries.

Decker · October 20, 2016, 06:22:27 AM

Quote
I also found the warlord on the way and got out instantly (like in 9 turns). I lost the previous run derping around the warlord. Got shredded on the way out. Those messages are somewhat misleading. Maybe I am supposed to wait till the counter attack starts...shrugs.

Big spoilers ahead...

Spoiler

There are two secrets in the Warlord base that I know of, both involving secret doors. In the top-right side of the base, there is a secret door at the end of the corridor (right side at the end) that leads outside the base. I don't know if it's sufficient to bump into it to make it open. So far I just melted the wall with a cannon.

The other secret room is at the end of the corridor (left side at the end) that opens with a terminal and that apparently leads nowhere.

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Scrap what I said earlier about speed runs not being luck dependent. I just had several attempts at beating my run, and I never found flight units or had anything go my way. I must've been quite lucky with my first try...

Yes, you were!

I watched some bits of the video and you found a 3-weight grenade launcher early on, which is the perfect weapon to get flight units from pests.

Generally, you need to be lucky to find good flight units and hackware along the way, and of course to find exits that lead where you want. Finally, hacking must succeed in Access to locate the exit (you just stumbled into it in your run, which was incredibly lucky) and you must successfully hack the door open.

My best run so far is 1256 turns, but I think I can do better by optimizing my exit search algorithm. I found that it's best to collect all the matter available early on, because matter depletion is a frequent thing. In general melee'ing anything for anything except flight units wastes too much time.

It's disturbing how easily you can just clown around in front of anything with some decent flight units. In a game, I got to the end of Quarantine after taking a wrong exit, where I basically just flew past everything with little trouble. It's so much easier than in score-based combat builds, where you need to stay alive for a long long time.

zxc · October 20, 2016, 07:02:39 AM

Got a new combat build going... https://i.imgur.com/p8BdfjH.png

Formerly a flight build... https://i.imgur.com/0cksRua.png

Farmed Section 7 quite heavily https://i.imgur.com/odIXxw8.png

I'm in such good shape that I don't want to mess it up. Not sure whether to stay on this floor longer and farm assault squads or progress to Access. Wish I could enter Testing...

Also not sure what to evolve next. I'm leaning towards 2 utilities. Weaponry would be good but I don't have that many spares. I'm virtually oneshotting everything, so a shorter volley might be preferable...

Decker · October 20, 2016, 07:15:17 AM

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I'm in such good shape that I don't want to mess it up. Not sure whether to stay on this floor longer and farm assault squads or progress to Access. Wish I could enter Testing...

Also not sure what to evolve next. I'm leaning towards 2 utilities. Weaponry would be good but I don't have that many spares. I'm virtually oneshotting everything, so a shorter volley might be preferable...

Nice build-up! You might consider switching *back* to a stealth build for Access. Especially if you want to farm those assault squads before, you'll have hell in Access with alert level 5 right from the start. Plus if you evolve 2 more weapons, you can run into churn issues with your low inventory. FWIW I'd take propulsion, but it's me...

zxc · October 20, 2016, 07:29:19 AM

Quote from: Decker on October 20, 2016, 07:15:17 AM
You might consider switching *back* to a stealth build for Access. Especially if you want to farm those assault squads before, you'll have hell in Access with alert level 5 right from the start.

That is not something I considered. True though that it's going to be hell right from the start. I'm confident I can win this if I don't leave it too late to make a run for the exit. It's too late to go back to stealth though.

Quote from: Decker on October 20, 2016, 07:15:17 AMPlus if you evolve 2 more weapons, you can run into churn issues with your low inventory.

Yep, this is the main case against evolving weapons.

Quote from: Decker on October 20, 2016, 07:15:17 AMFWIW I'd take propulsion, but it's me...

I am not surprised...

So, you'd seriously evolve propulsion? This is not a Decker joke, is it?

I already have a lot of propulsion. Check my inventory, I have two spare 2x armours as well (combined with a force field). So I'm not convinced that propulsion is best here. I'm not going to continue until tomorrow though, as I'd enjoy more discussion and such.

I'm considering going back and picking up some optics and evolving at least 1 utility slot for the start of Access. I haven't been scanned by a researcher, so I won't have Z series or combat programmers after me. It'll just be plain assault squads. At a good choke point, I should be able to demolish wave after wave of them.

Happylisk · October 20, 2016, 07:50:13 AM

1) Amazing speed run zxc. And that music.... some metalhead!

2) Does any else think that it's problematic that Zhirov and Armory can spawn on the same level? An entire aspect of the game can become undoable simply due to bad level spawning luck.

zxc · October 20, 2016, 07:55:11 AM

Quote from: Happylisk on October 20, 2016, 07:50:13 AM
1) Amazing speed run zxc. And that music.... some metalhead!

Thanks, and yes, it reveals that I'm an Ayreon metalhead

Quote from: Happylisk on October 20, 2016, 07:50:13 AM
2) Does any else think that it's problematic that Zhirov and Armory can spawn on the same level? An entire aspect of the game can become undoable simply due to bad level spawning luck.

Yep. I got this in one of my recent games. Very sad... I told Kyzrati about it and I think the response was equivalent to a shrug.

Kyzrati · October 20, 2016, 08:01:18 AM

It's something I considered for sure, but there is bound to be overlap between some floors and in those cases you'll just have to make choices. Note that there are some methods you can use to get full benefits from the Armory branch without Zhirov.

zxc · October 20, 2016, 08:03:09 AM

Quote from: Kyzrati on October 20, 2016, 08:01:18 AM
It's something I considered for sure, but there is bound to be overlap between some floors and in those cases you'll just have to make choices. Note that there are some methods you can use to get full benefits from the Armory branch without Zhirov.

That's all I needed to know! I had a sneaking suspicion...

Decker · October 20, 2016, 08:27:57 AM

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So, you'd seriously evolve propulsion? This is not a Decker joke, is it?

I already have a lot of propulsion. Check my inventory, I have two spare 2x armours as well (combined with a force field). So I'm not convinced that propulsion is best here.

No, not a joke. Your force field is one crit away from oblivion. Armor is nice, but what will you do when you run out? From the look of it, the battlefield will soon be littered in propulsion parts. So I say propulsion is your best move defensively.

I look forward seeing how you handle Access.

zxc · October 20, 2016, 09:11:47 AM

Rereading earlier messages, I should note that I've already been farming assault squads for some time, and I'm definitely on alert 5.

Re: force field, don't jinx it!

Propulsion is possible... you'd go with two propulsion slots? With another utility slot I can run another large storage unit, which could hold yet more spares. My main concern will be finding a good chokepoint in Access. Afterwards, I'll need to transition into finding the exit before I lose everything. Escaping to the surface will be worth at least 10k score for me.

edit: Other concern is matter. Though, with two kinetic weapons, I won't eat through matter that quickly. Unlike previous combat runs, I will definitely not be hurting for energy or heat dissipation at any point. So I can use energy weapons for sure. KE penetrators are my most tested and certain friends, but they are only rating 6 (if I got more multirails it might be game over for main.c).

Happylisk · October 20, 2016, 11:17:59 AM

Hearing talk of assault squad farming makes me kind of wish we had security level 6. Something truly absurd that could only be triggered by deliberate grinding.

zxc · October 20, 2016, 11:50:16 AM

Quote from: Happylisk on October 20, 2016, 11:17:59 AM
Hearing talk of assault squad farming makes me kind of wish we had security level 6. Something truly absurd that could only be triggered by deliberate grinding.

+1

And this would be worth even more points!

Quote from: Decker on October 19, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
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TOTAL SCORE: 63148

Congratulations! I'm not beating that!

With the new branches in Research, it's definitely easier to navigate it.

I still don't have a clue on how to beat Access with a combat build aside of being lucky. In my last game I replicated my long-range sensors with the artifact in Quarantine, and I tried to play it as a half-stealth hybrid, killing only the programmer dispatches. No good. I explored about half the map, and I found the cycler but not the exit. All terminals were level 3, so no use. I eventually died to attrition, with parts shot one by one.

Do you use any particular strategy for Access zxc?

Oops, missed this post. Thanks.

Which artefact? There are tons, man!

I haven't had a different strategy for dealing with Access. In both my primarily combat builds that made it there this Alpha, I had success when using a long corridor to do most of my fighting in. Finding the surface exit is tricky. In my first ever combat win, I got to the exit first, then started farming. I might try doing that in this game, if I can. The problem is that my alert level is already 5. Once assault squads start coming for you, I don't think you can reduce threat if you keep killing them.

My earlier video featuring Access farming is the only combat footage I have of the floor (and in general, in fact). I plan on recording the entirety of Access with commentary when I resume my game. Though I'm not sure I'll be saying much other than 'I hope this crits'!

Finding the Surface exit is something I've had a lot of practise with doing. I hope I can make it in my game. Farming Access from the exit might be the ideal way to go, because you can escape at the right moment. I wouldn't mind the multirails and armour from the behemoths too.

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