Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ozymandias79]

I have tried wings a couple of time being to fly over the heads of other bots is sweet, I like wheels for speedy runs. What do you prefer?

[biomatter]

Heh, ah, to be more accurate - the five types are, from slowest to fastest:

1) Treads. These things will carry the earth but you will move as slowly as someone carrying it, too. They have little/no upkeep and only use energy/heat when you move, so that's a plus.

2) Legs. Support a decent amount. I actually haven't taken a close look at their stats - I forgot what makes them special. They don't move too quickly though, it's usually (100)+.

3) Wheels. The only ground-based prop mod that can get you under (100).

4) Hover. Unlike the ground-based systems, more hover mods = more better. These are starting to have a noticeable active upkeep AND move costs for both energy use and heat generation. They support a fair amount, surprisingly.

5) Flight. God tier, but I'm biased because I always run light. These things barely support themselves and consume exorbitant amounts of energy and heat, but move incredibly fast. Three flight mods and you are moving a disgusting (20), but not for long because energy/heat problems. Also, you can jump over units! This is totally abusable - if three happen to be in a row, you'll move over ALL THREE. Amazing. If you go overweight though, you're basically better off crawling.

[ozymandias79]

Great breakdown. I forgot hover as I haven't tried that one yet.   

[Ruludos]

Wings wings wings. I simply can't see how anyone can get into the lategame without a flight or hover-based build because fighting anything at that point in the game is pretty much impossible. But yes, 4x speed and the ability to jump over bots is the best thing for stealth-based builds. The weight restrictions aren't a problem when I don't even equip guns.

[Baltazar]

Looks like the only advantage of Legs over Wheels is that you can overload them a little bit more without suffering as insane of a penalty. I typically go Treads if I'm not flying and Legs if I can't find treads. The choice of legs is purely aesthetic though as I just love the concept of a six-legged robut wandering around firing lasers at everything.

~Balt~

[jimmijamjams]

Hovers/flight units for me

When I'm fitted out with hovers or flight units I'm finding that one or two Weight Distribution Systems (not sure if they stack, I'll have to check again) are invaluable.  Also, a couple of Maneuvering Thrusters help a great deal to reduce your hit chance especially when you're airborne.

I'm struggling to see the usefulness of Treads, but I presume they can take more damage, take on more weight, and provide more coverage for your Core.  Maybe that's useful in some situations.

[nsg21]

I've been using wheels or treads (when run out of wheels) so I can haul a lot of stuff. But then again, I am getting killed pretty quickly, so maybe this is not the right way to start.

[Ruludos]

I'm struggling to see the usefulness of Treads, but I presume they can take more damage, take on more weight, and provide more coverage for your Core.  Maybe that's useful in some situations.

From what I understand, a combat-centric Cogmind would want treads to support a large number of weapons and all of the power/utilities necessary to make them work well. The problem is maintaining such a build, but that's a different issue.

[Eloden]

Flight for me too. But nothing is more devastating than loosing the third flight module and dropping to crawling speeds due to massive overload penalties.

[biomatter]

Flight for me too. But nothing is more devastating than loosing the third flight module and dropping to crawling speeds due to massive overload penalties.

That's what I really love about Cogmind - I don't know how Kyzrati did it, but the balance is superb out of the box. This logic can be seen in many, many other areas of the game. Fantastic!

[CormacMccarthy91]

After reading these it seems that hovering or wings is completely necessary for the late game, im wondering if there needs to be some balancing done if thats the case? or is that intentional? I just feel like you should be able to complete the game using whatever method you prefer, otherwise the other items will just seem useless.

[E.I.G.]

After reading these it seems that hovering or wings is completely necessary for the late game, im wondering if there needs to be some balancing done if thats the case? or is that intentional? I just feel like you should be able to complete the game using whatever method you prefer, otherwise the other items will just seem useless.

Eh, legs are actually fairly nice if you get into a lot of combat. Mostly because the main combat robots use them and they also have a nice carry weight.
They are even compatible with maneuvering thrusters.

Treads are probably good if you can get them and a lot of armor plating. That stuff is heavy but keeps you alive.

The big downside to hover is that the main things you will find with it are either hard to hit scouts or dangerous programmers.

The downside to flight is you can carry very little and it eats power, a bad combination as the low weight engines tend to have lower power.

[biomatter]

Legs and treads are where its at for combat runs. Legs keep the decent movespeed, treads... well, everything moves seventy billion times every move you make, but you only need like three to carry the world. No balancing necessary. If I can make it to -1 on legs, so can you

[Arseface]

Legs and treads are where its at for combat runs. Legs keep the decent movespeed, treads... well, everything moves seventy billion times every move you make, but you only need like three to carry the world. No balancing necessary. If I can make it to -1 on legs, so can you

I actually do something really neat for combat runs. I turn off my propulsion while fighting.

You get a dodge bonus for hovering or flying, and your base movement is hover. Since your move speed isn't used when firing weapons, my 6,000,000 movement time doesn't matter. If I'm going to move, I turn on my treads.

[biomatter]

Volley Modifiers:
  +3%/cell if range < 6
  +attacker utility bonuses
  +10% if attacker didn't move for the last 2 turns
  +3% of defender heat
  +10%/+30% for large/huge targets
  +15% for hack-linked targets
  +5% w/robot analysis data
  -1~15% if defender moved last turn, where faster = harder to hit
  -10% if attacker moved last turn
  -3% of attacker heat
  -10%/-30% for small/tiny targets
  -10% if target is flying
  -defender utility bonuses

Citation needed? I'm not seeing the bonus for hovering.

Actually, there's a few things I'd like clarification on. If core movement is hover-based, does it still benefit from Maneuvering Thrusters and the like? For some reason I would think not, but it probably does. Also, this line:
-1~15% if defender moved last turn, where faster = harder to hit
How fast do you have to be moving to get that 15%? Likewise, where is the 1% cut-off?
And:
+10% if attacker didn't move for the last 2 turns
I'm stupid - does this mean I get a bonus if I haven't moved, or does it mean they get a bonus against me if I haven't moved?

[Kyzrati]

Volley Modifiers:
  +3%/cell if range < 6
  +attacker utility bonuses
  +10% if attacker didn't move for the last 2 turns
  +3% of defender heat
  +10%/+30% for large/huge targets
  +15% for hack-linked targets
  +5% w/robot analysis data
  -1~15% if defender moved last turn, where faster = harder to hit
  -10% if attacker moved last turn
  -3% of attacker heat
  -10%/-30% for small/tiny targets
  -10% if target is flying
  -defender utility bonuses

Citation needed? I'm not seeing the bonus for hovering.

Yup, there isn't one--flight and hover aren't the same thing. I could consider giving hover half the bonus that flight has, but hover is pretty powerful as is, being so fast yet still able to carry as much as it can.

If core movement is hover-based, does it still benefit from Maneuvering Thrusters and the like? For some reason I would think not, but it probably does.

Core movement is hover-based, and therefore should benefit from Maneuvering Thrusters, but I just checked the code and apparently I forgot to take that special case into account! So thanks, fixed it for the next version

-1~15% if defender moved last turn, where faster = harder to hit
How fast do you have to be moving to get that 15%? Likewise, where is the 1% cut-off?

I kept that somewhat vague because a detailed explanation wouldn't really fit.

Code: [Select]

Where speed < 95, mod = -((100-speed)/5)%
So the bonus generally only apply to unburdened hovering and flying units.

+10% if attacker didn't move for the last 2 turns
I'm stupid - does this mean I get a bonus if I haven't moved, or does it mean they get a bonus against me if I haven't moved?

Sure, all the same calculations apply to your enemy's attacks, so they have an easier time hitting you after they've remained stationary for 3 or more turns.

[biomatter]

Wonderful! If I could wring you dry of all your tricksy formulas...

But ack, you didn't really answer my last question. Or maybe I am just tremendously stupid. So do I get a 10% accuracy bonus for standing still for >2 turns? That is, I get a 10% penalty every time I move? Is that how I read it? Also, what is a turn? 100 units of time, or a turn turn?

[Arseface]

I must have mixed up the Maneuvering Thrusters and the inherent bonuses. Thanks for clearing that up.

I used to have a flight unit equipped and do it that way, but later on switched to just using inherent thruster bits since I thought they worked. Guess I have to switch back.

[Kyzrati]

Wonderful! If I could wring you dry of all your tricksy formulas...

I don't mind giving out formulas when they help clarify something that I believe should be known. But there are a bajillion of them in game, so I won't be doing that for everything =p

But ack, you didn't really answer my last question. Or maybe I am just tremendously stupid. So do I get a 10% accuracy bonus for standing still for >2 turns? That is, I get a 10% penalty every time I move? Is that how I read it? Also, what is a turn? 100 units of time, or a turn turn?

I wasn't sure what you were asking, so I guessed. Yes, you get a +10% bonus for standing still > 2 turns, and so does everyone else. And you get a -10% if you just moved.

...but actually these aren't based on "turns," per se, but "actions," so that wording needs to change!

[endlessblaze]

I never use treads. nope, nope, nope. to slow

I will use legs, hover and flight.

though the later 2 are a bit harder for me to do since I like to carry a lot. if I find a weight redistribution system or something...hehehhehehe


I also like to carry around a spare flight unit, so if I start to get worn down I can make a geta way.

[Warmist]

I never use treads. nope, nope, nope. to slow

I will use legs, hover and flight.

though the later 2 are a bit harder for me to do since I like to carry a lot. if I find a weight redistribution system or something...hehehhehehe


I also like to carry around a spare flight unit, so if I start to get worn down I can make a geta way.

Things like this push me to make a BADASS bot with HUGE THREADS and MANY EXPLOSIONS and none of that wimpy running away or sissy hacking... Though it usually ends very badly...

[biomatter]

Things like this push me to make a BADASS bot with HUGE THREADS and MANY EXPLOSIONS and none of that wimpy running away or sissy hacking... Though it usually ends very badly...

REAL MEN USE CENTRIUM HEAVY TREADS TO CARRY THE WORLD 'CUS THEY'RE SO TUFF AND CARRY LOTS OF STUFF

No really, I just had a semi-decent combat run. Scored 8700~ but it ended pretty treadfully when I couldn't find spares.

[Arseface]

Having a single good tread works well as backup propulsion.

It's usually enough to carry you when all your other bits get shot off and you'd be otherwise forced to drop important utilities.

[biomatter]

Treads and high-tier legs also actually double as really good armor. If you've got empty prop slots you're saving for more hover mods, fill 'em with offline treads in the meantime.

[Sylverone]

Treads and high-tier legs also actually double as really good armor. If you've got empty prop slots you're saving for more hover mods, fill 'em with offline treads in the meantime.

I knew there was a reason it was strange for propulsion items not to have mass... Imagine what that might look like... It gives me the random Idea of having an armor component that equips to an unused leg slot.