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Author Topic: Toggle auto-melee?  (Read 5825 times)

Baltazar

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Toggle auto-melee?
« on: May 22, 2015, 12:55:34 AM »

Oftentimes I find myself running about with a lot of loot on the ground and the colors are so bright and I'm focusing on fighting/dodging hostiles and whatnot and I manage to *clank* into a digger or a technician or some other non-hostile robut. I don't mind this so much when I've got a katana equipped, but it's really a bitch when I'm trying to go all ranged or something and I bump into this non-hostile because it's blending in with a pile of items and I get core corruption or some of my mods get damaged/destroyed in the thick of battle.

I was wondering if it was possible to make some setting that can be toggled on/off that would trigger a "Confirm Move? y/n" dialogue upon bumping into npcs - for those of us who just don't want to actually be bashing into them (especially without a melee weapon attached). I could see it as a hotkey so that you can quick-toggle it when you're trying to flee through a narrow hallway filled with greenies.

I understand that I could easily solve this problem by being just a little bit more aware and taking my time, so feel free to shoot this down if it sounds "meh." I guess another idea would just be to do a subtle recolor of some things to make some of the baddies stand out against piles of items?

Thanks for your time,
~Balt~
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fonetikli

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 04:50:51 AM »

I was having the exact same issue and was thinking along similar lines.  I've since switched to keyboard mode and no longer accidentally crash into anything.  Pathing with the mouse where you click on a location multiple tiles away seems to be a good recipe for inadvertently smashing into things  :)
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Maurog

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 06:42:34 AM »

But accidentally doing stupid things that you have only yourself to blame for is what roguelikes are all about!
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Baltazar

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 01:17:14 PM »

Yeah, I agree it is on me. It's never a problem (and the Confirm dialogue would end up being a pain when I'm simply moving about) unless there's a large amount of items on the ground. There's probably a keybinding already to highlight enemies. I can check for that and begin using it more often if it's available. Though it does seem kind of silly to bash into other robuts physically with no melee weapon attached.

Looks like there IS a button to highlight enemies, but it doesn't do anything for non-hostiles at all. Maybe add a button to label the non-hostiles as well just to simply aid in picking them out visually from among piles of detritus?
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Arseface

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2015, 05:29:57 PM »

But accidentally doing stupid things that you have only yourself to blame for is what roguelikes are all about!
I completely disagree about the accidentally bit. Doing anything you didn't want to do shouldn't be an accepted form of error. Unintended consequences of your actions? Those are great. Performing actions you didn't want to isn't.

It's on him for making the mistake, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement on the games end.
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Maurog

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2015, 03:41:29 AM »

I do agree that the highlight enemies option should maybe show neutrals and friends too, color coded differently.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 01:35:55 PM »

But accidentally doing stupid things that you have only yourself to blame for is what roguelikes are all about!
Haha, yeah, Maurog's right. You all deserve it! ;)

No really, it's a good point especially for mouse users (as a keyboard user I don't often have that problem, except when some freaking robot jumps right in front of me while I'm rushing somewhere).

Whenever I have to use the mouse I find it easy to crash into robots, especially because a mouse user is less likely to be looking at adjacent positions, but instead at distant ones--the final destination area.

This is definitely going to get some attention.

I do agree that the highlight enemies option should maybe show neutrals and friends too, color coded differently.
There are two buttons, one for hostiles and one for allies, each of which is already color-coded for integrity. It doesn't seem useful enough to add an entirely separate command for non-hostiles, so that leaves making neutrals also highlighted by the hostiles button--maybe in a very non-obtrusive gray. I believe I had this as an option originally, but removed it for some reason. Perhaps because the labels for hostiles should really stand out as they're the actual dangerous ones you need to worry about, but I can see the argument now that under some circumstances there may simply be too much stuff lying around (this is especially true with tiles--with ASCII it's still easier to differentiate robots from parts even in a big cluster).

I think if you're not armed with a melee weapon, ramming should probably require two moves as a confirmation, and maybe highlight the target real quick to show that you're about to smash into something if you really want to move in that direction.
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Baltazar

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 09:43:12 PM »

I only ever made the mistake of mouse-moving once and then I haven't done it since. Click... CLANK CLANK CLANK. Um, no thanks!

I probably tend to just rush my movement a little too much. I've been playing mostly ascii since the first couple of runs and I still sometimes find it difficult to find the lone Informer among a pile of wheels (though I admit I'm rapidly being trained since three weapons were Disabled from a mistaken ram).

I like the idea of needing two button presses to ram when non-melee-equipped. That would skip the chore of having confirm dialogues (which don't really fit the feel of the game as a whole) and still make some allowances for those who rush. The only problem I see with is when moving around corners or through doors. Sometimes I move into a door or around a corner and ram someone accidentally. If two button presses are forced for ever ram without a melee weapon, then that might give someone not equipped with enhanced sensors a freebie clue as to the whereabouts of robuts that are hidden from view. From the layman's perspective it seems like anything is going to be a fix with some questionable trade-offs. Maybe it would ultimately better to just force players to become trained to slow down and use their eyes?

~Balt~
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Kyzrati

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2015, 04:03:11 AM »

The only problem I see with is when moving around corners or through doors. Sometimes I move into a door or around a corner and ram someone accidentally. If two button presses are forced for ever ram without a melee weapon, then that might give someone not equipped with enhanced sensors a freebie clue as to the whereabouts of robuts that are hidden from view. From the layman's perspective it seems like anything is going to be a fix with some questionable trade-offs. Maybe it would ultimately better to just force players to become trained to slow down and use their eyes?
Hm, I hadn't thought of that angle yet. But... how is that possible? As per the FOV calculations you can always see around corners you're next to. There's no situation where you are in a position to move into an unseen space (i.e. adjacent to it), except for the current known bug that occurs when you are already ramming something intentionally and your FOV fails to update on displacement.

I think it's true that players will crash a lot less once they get used to everything, so maybe we could put this off as a secondary issue and see where we stand weeks or months from now when everyone has a bit more experience under their belt.

It has been brought up more than once now, though.
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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 04:09:50 AM »

I've been playing in mouse-mode a little, and navigating bots is a nightmare. I don't know how you guys do it, honestly. It sure is convenient just having to click across a room though :(

(I've only been using mouse-mode because you can't swap modes when you are in a Terminal, and I've been... scribing... >_>)
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Baltazar

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Re: Toggle auto-melee?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 01:38:07 PM »

It's happened to me a couple of times with narrow walls. I'm zooming up a wall and there's a narrow hallway on the other side of it. I make my final move to turn left around the wall (moving  diagonally) and another bot on the other side of the wall does the same, but turns right. It's really a tiny niche of experience and I'm not even suggesting that be fixed. I think that's kind of awesome - two robuts rushing around a corner and ramming into each other; I'm just not sure how that would interact with the double button press of the ram effect. Maybe it wouldn't do anything because the two bots aren't right next to each other at the beginning of the movement.

Edit: And again, I don't use mouse movement. Purely a numpad guy.
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