Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]

[Kyzrati]

Use this thread for general feedback and discussion about the most recent release, if you want to talk about something that you don't feel warrants a dedicated thread.

This is the open spoiler version, for discussions where you plan to talk about spoilery content and don't want to bother with spoiler tagging. Do not read this thread if you want to avoid spoilers! For non-spoiler discussion, feel free to use the non-spoiler discussion thread here.

Alpha 8 release notes and changelog.

[Sherlockkat]

I haven't had the opportunity to play past the single run that I did before. I wish I looked at the changelog before trying to blow through that door in Zion. The natives weren't very happy with my behaviour and got myselves kicked out. Died in the prox caves. Shame. It was shaping up to be a good run too. Also, I think Zion could benefit from a little bit of background music. It is one of the very few areas where you are just chilling out. I am thinking something along the lines of the music that plays in UNACTO-HQ in deus-ex. I haven't found out any of the cool stuff yet. Will report back later.

I also think I know how you turned research into a warzone . Let's see whether I am right.

p.s: Also, do the changes to the blast doors imply that I can't crit through the prison door in Extension and the mainframe doors in Cetus?

Edit : Feature request: Would it be possible to include a pull up window which contains only dialogue with pwds (or even just the pwds with a brief description)?. I can see things getting annoying if I have to scroll through the log to find passwords.

[Sherlockkat]

Just had a really good run.

Alpha 8 thoughts:

i) I liked the molecular deconstructor. Is this the only weapon in the game which does damage over time? Really fun to play with. A really good anti-hunter tool, I think.
ii) Zion is cool. I love the "vendor" who fixes you up. Also, lol at storm laser. Also, learnt a new trojan. I already knew about most of the "tips". But, I can see this being very useful for new players. If they can make it there, that is :p.
iii) Met O8 in a previous run. Didn't get the chance to use the code that he gave me.
iv) Met Zhirov in upper caves. I think I understand the lore lot better now. The alien artifacts were cool. I assume you can't further the plot with Zhirov before section 7 is open.
v) I also like the change to Samaritans. They are now a reliable source of treads and neutrino cores.
vi) I found the signal disruptor (edit: not signal disruptor, it's self-destruct interrupter :p) in Zion. That is very useful. Especially if you find a lone behemoth and you want to do some shopping...

I was very close to winning this run. I started off with a combat build and dived into every branch to see if I can find something new. I think I dove into caves in every single factory floor. The upper proxmity caves wrecked me. But, I found decent flight equipment in research and switched to stealth. Found the exit in -3 after running around for a while. Got lucky in -2 and the exit was right there. Access was tragic. I found a energy cycler early on and blew it up. Then spent rest of the time running around looking for the exit. Ran into a bunch of swarmers and that was it.

I am probably done with Alpha 8 for a while. Will try and get a speed win before Alpha 9 though.

scoresheet/17234

Cogmind - Alpha 8

Name: Sherlockkat

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (237)     1185
Value Destroyed (10269)    10269
Prototype IDs (29)         580
Alien Tech Identified (2)  400
Bonus (300)                300
              TOTAL SCORE: 17234

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             0/1600
Matter                     55/300
Energy                     50/50
System Corruption          7%
Temperature                Cool (6)
Location                   -1/Access

Parts
-------
Power (2)
Propulsion (5)
Utility (13)
  Experimental Core Analyzer
  Improved Hacking Suite
  Advanced Signal Interpreter
Weapon (5)

Inventory
-----------
Heavy Gauss Cannon

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Impulse Thruster Array
  Impulse Thruster Array
  Diametric Drive
Utility
  Experimental Core Analyzer
  Advanced ECM Suite
  Improved Hacking Suite
  Advanced Melee Analysis Suite
  Advanced Transmission Jammer
  Advanced Terrain Scanner
  Reaction Control System
  Advanced Signal Interpreter
Weapon
  Power Sword
[Rating: 105]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Neutrino Core
  Engine                   Improved Deuterium Engine
  Power Core               Neutrino Core
  Reactor                  Particle Reactor
Propulsion                 Medium Treads
  Treads                   Medium Treads
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Hover Unit               Gravmag System
  Flight Unit              Impulse Thruster Array
Utility                    Large Storage Unit
  Device                   Focal Shield
  Storage                  Large Storage Unit
  Processor                Improved Targeting Computer
  Hackware                 Improved Hacking Suite
  Protection               Improved Core Shielding
Weapon                     Coil Gun
  Energy Gun               Improved Medium Laser
  Energy Cannon            Particle Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Coil Gun
  Ballistic Cannon         Gauss Cannon
  Launcher                 Improved Grenade Launcher
  Special Weapon           Molecular Deconstructor
  Slashing Weapon          Power Sword
  Piercing Weapon          Heavy Pick

Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown            300
  Met Zhirov               300
Classes Destroyed          16
  Worker                   9
  Builder                  9
  Hauler                   7
  Recycler                 10
  Operator                 1
  Watcher                  3
  Swarmer                  48
  Saboteur                 2
  Grunt                    68
  Brawler                  8
  Duelist                  9
  Sentry                   24
  Hunter                   16
  Programmer               13
  Behemoth                 3
  Samaritan                7
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           9
  Combat Bots Only         9
Matter Collected           6986
  Salvage Created          11141
Parts Attached             255
  Power                    36
  Propulsion               63
  Utility                  53
  Weapon                   103
Parts Lost                 135
  Power                    21
  Propulsion               32
  Utility                  25
  Weapon                   57
Average Slot Usage (%)     86
  Naked Turns              44
Spaces Moved               10592
  Fastest Speed (%)        333
  Average Speed (%)        104
  Slowest Speed (%)        10
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           2
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                1
Heaviest Build             122
  Greatest Overweight (x)  20
  Average Overweight (x)   0
Largest Inventory          20
  Most Items Carried       20
  Average Items Carried    12
Core Damage Taken          3733
Average Core Remaining (%) 68
  Depth 10 Exit            78
  Depth 9 Exit             67
  Depth 8 Exit             46
  Depth 7 Exit             78
  Depth 6 Exit             64
  Depth 5 Exit             47
  Depth 3 Exit             135
  Depth 2 Exit             100
Volleys Fired              483
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  354
Shots Fired                1399
  Gun                      944
  Cannon                   383
  Launcher                 49
  Special                  23
  Kinetic                  932
  Thermal                  317
  Explosive                27
  Electromagnetic          100
Shots Hit Robots           902
  Core Hits                481
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              7
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 7
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           25531
  Projectiles              19430
  Explosions               5818
  Melee                    262
  Ramming                  21
  Kinetic                  13978
  Thermal                  5363
  Explosive                3150
  Electromagnetic          2757
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 262
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      607
  Shots                    14
  Rammed                   2
Highest Temperature        534
  Average Temperature      111
  Shutdowns                4
  Energy Bleed             2
  Interference             12
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            2
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         7
  Average Corruption       2
  Message Errors           41
  Parts Rejected           19
  Data loss (map)          51
  Data loss (database)     19
  Misfires                 8
  Misdirections            16
  Targeting Errors         19
  Weapon Failures          3
  Depth 6 End              1
  Depth 5 End              7
  Depth 3 End              2
Haulers Intercepted        7
Robots Corrupted           4
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          39
Communications Jammed      811
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             4
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Data Cores Recovered       1
  Used                     0
Machines Hacked            35
  Terminals                19
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          2
Total Hacks                114
  Successful               63
  Failed                   37
  Catastrophic             15
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   30
  Unauthorized             0
  Terminals                38
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          5
Terminal Hacks             120
  Record                   41
  Part Schematic           4
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           4
  Prototype ID Bank        4
  Open Door                5
  Level Access Points      1
  Branch Access Points     1
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Garrison Index           0
  Alert Level              2
  Unreport Threat          1
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Garrison Status          0
  Intercept Status         0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         19
  Full Trace Events        8
  Feedback Events          1
  Feedback Corruption      1
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Trojans Installed          0
  Terminals                0
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Fabricators Overloaded     0
Garrisons Disabled         1
Garrisons Compromised      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   4
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
  Retrieved Components     0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       4
Robots Rewired             7
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               11
  Largest Group            2
  Highest-Rated Group      52
  Highest-Rated Ally       35
Total Orders               4
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  3
  RETURN                   1
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               62
  Total Damage             1105
  Kills                    14
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             713
  Average Influence        214
  Final Influence          55
Maximum Alert Level        3
  Low Security (%)         61
  Level 1                  17
  Level 2                  19
  Level 3                  1
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          30
  Investigation            11
  Extermination            5
  Reinforcement            9
  Assault                  2
  Garrison                 3
  Intercept                0
Derelict Logs Recovered    10
Exploration Rate (%)       31
  Regions Visited          22
  Pre-discovered Areas     5
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Network Hubs Disabled      0
Actions Taken              11884
Turns Passed               16667
  Depth 11                 68
  Depth 10                 710
  Depth 9                  330
  Depth 8                  730
  Depth 7                  2928
  Depth 6                  2377
  Depth 5                  4097
  Depth 4                  4050
  Depth 3                  1031
  Depth 2                  23
  Depth 1                  323
  Scrapyard                68
  Materials                1484
  Factory                  4770
  Research                 542
  Access                   323
  Mines                    286
  Lower Caves              3165
  Upper Caves              5064
  Proximity Caves          512
  Zhirov                   453

Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy Particle Gun
Heavy Wave Gun
Tachyon Dispersion Ray
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Heavy Machine Gun
Enhanced Coil Gun
Tri-rail Accelerator
Compact Mass Driver
Tesla Bomb Launcher
Molecular Deconstructor
Experimental Heat Sink
Improved Energy Well
Advanced Energy Well
Improved Matter Compressor
Experimental Matter Compressor
Experimental Optical Array
Advanced Power Amplifier
EM Dispersion Field
Experimental Power Shielding
Quantum Shroud
Experimental Core Analyzer
Advanced Particle Charger
Advanced Overload Regulator
Advanced Salvage Targeting Computer
Experimental Hacking Suite
System Purifier
Assault Drone Bay

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
Transdimensional Reconstructor
Integrated Dissipator

Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-10/Mines
-9/Materials
-8/Materials
-7/Factory
-7/Lower Caves
-7/Lower Caves
-6/Factory
-6/Lower Caves
-6/Lower Caves
-5/Factory
-5/Upper Caves
-5/Upper Caves
-4/Factory
-4/Upper Caves
-4/Upper Caves
-4/Zhirov
-3/Proximity Caves
-3/Research
-2/Research
-1/Access

Game
------
Seed: 1461799063
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 123 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 219
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 12/Tallcaps
Map View: 83x54
FOV Handling: Fade In


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[close]

edit : The score sheet says that I had 135pc of my health when I exited -3. Bug?

[Kyzrati]

Hehe, you got on the wrong side of the Zionites? Surprised that you still managed to make it out alive that first time

Also, I think Zion could benefit from a little bit of background music. It is one of the very few areas where you are just chilling out. I am thinking something along the lines of the music that plays in UNACTO-HQ in deus-ex.

Yeah, eventually all areas of the game will have some sort of continuous ambient or music going on--this time I just added a sample for the caves since I had it handy.

p.s: Also, do the changes to the blast doors imply that I can't crit through the prison door in Extension and the mainframe doors in Cetus?

Correct. I wasn't aware anyone knew about that yet, since it wasn't in the manual or context help, and no one's mentioned it. That was originally a way to get through any locked door, but it wasn't intentional. Those were meant only for the other several methods (there are still at least four now, I think).

Edit : Feature request: Would it be possible to include a pull up window which contains only dialogue with pwds (or even just the pwds with a brief description)?. I can see things getting annoying if I have to scroll through the log to find passwords.

This is something I've been thinking about in the background, yeah. Waiting until the game is further along before addressing it. For now I just jot the four characters down on scratch paper if it's something I'm likely to use.

i) I liked the molecular deconstructor. Is this the only weapon in the game which does damage over time? Really fun to play with. A really good anti-hunter tool, I think.

Yep, it's the only such weapon--mentioned in the changelog as the "unique weapon" with different mechanics. Very special, and even useful for more than just taking out robots

ii) Zion is cool. I love the "vendor" who fixes you up. Also, lol at storm laser. Also, learnt a new trojan. I already knew about most of the "tips". But, I can see this being very useful for new players. If they can make it there, that is :p.

I kinda think of it as more advanced tips, anyway, for those who can reach the mid-game but need all the help they can get to tackle the late game. A good bit of it has already been learned by those who hang around on the forums, but new players in the future won't have been through the alpha process .

You probably haven't seen them all, though, since they're randomly selected from a large pool each time so it would take quite a few runs to get them all (and some are more rare than others). There's tips in there I'm pretty sure no one knows yet.

And for experienced players who do know all the tips, know that the stationary Zionites are the ones that provide some kind of real benefit other than simple text-based knowledge, so those are the one's to talk to if you're just doing a quick run and not looking for lore/tips.

iv) Met Zhirov in upper caves. I think I understand the lore lot better now. The alien artifacts were cool. I assume you can't further the plot with Zhirov before section 7 is open.

Yeah, can't get further with him yet, though you can meet him elsewhere in 0b10. Only Decker's seen that before, I believe (it's not a guaranteed encounter).

edit : The score sheet says that I had 135pc of my health when I exited -3. Bug?

I noticed that in my run, too, and interestingly it also happened on -3. Must be some strange new bug. I'll smash it.

[Sherlockkat]

Re Doors : I had always thought that was a feature and not a bug. I imagined the Cogmind blowing up the prison doors and going "Come with if you want to live" in an Austrian accent. (edit : I regularly used this to free prisoners in extension.)

Re Molecular Disruptor : It scales so well late into the game. It might even be useful for speed builds if you can find the space. It is really broken and OP. I like it . Speaking of broken and OP items, the mini-drone bay is really good. I found it once in access and thought it was a really late game item. Turns out you can get it in factory. It made caves a lot more easier to navigate. Let's see how things turn out once the fabrication changes are in. It might make things a bit too easy.

[Kyzrati]

I imagined the Cogmind blowing up the prison doors and going "Come with if you want to live" in an Austrian accent. (edit : I regularly used this to free prisoners in extension.)

Hahaha... well, even without any hacking gear whatsoever, you'll generally be able to hack open about half the doors. There is also usually an Energy Cycler around.

On my last run I had no gear and failed to hack O7 out (his door looks different so it's distinguishable), then took out the cycler to free him, but by the time I got back to meet up with him he had lost all his propulsion . Then I was wishing I could hack a Mechanic to restore his propulsion, but had no datajack... Oh well!

Re Molecular Disruptor : It scales so well late into the game. It might even be useful for speed builds if you can find the space. It is really broken and OP. I like it .

HA! I had that feeling while making it (and figured it could probably even allow you to break the game in some unforseen way), but there's only one way to get it and it's not guaranteed, so I figured why not. If necessary we can balance it out a bit more later, but it's intended to be nice bonus if you're lucky enough to run across it.

It only has a chance to appear in one of any cave map in the game, and you have to visit that exact map to maybe find it. We'll see how common it really is. I could also lower its chance of being found, since right now it's kinda average compared to other encounters. In any case, fun to play with for now, and honestly there is additional semi-OP stuff on the way

Speaking of broken and OP items, the mini-drone bay is really good. I found it once in access and thought it was a really late game item. Turns out you can get it in factory. It made caves a lot more easier to navigate. Let's see how things turn out once the fabrication changes are in. It might make things a bit too easy.

Yeah, this is why I'm worried about easy fabrication. It's going to throw balance off quite a lot if you can always create the few parts that are obviously extremely useful. We'll see... I've got a new idea regarding that I might throw into the fab discussion thread.

[Sherlockkat]

Story so far....

Serious Lore Spoilers

So, the earth gets invaded by the Sigix, an alien race. Humans come up with project Seraph to fight back. Project Seraph = clever robots with guns. Dr Zhirov is the man behind project Seraph. Atleast, he is the brains behind the activity in Tau Ceti. He is dropped in Tau Ceti by Cetus which then continues onwards to get away from the Sigix. He settles down and iterates on the design for MAIN.C (The PAWN 4 stuff from Cetus records). Once he sets MAIN.C in motion, he plays the role of an observer and sees what it does. It builds robots to fight Sigix, but also starts experimenting with robotic life. The derelicts are the by product of this experimentation. The derelicts splinter into 3 groups: The assembled, the zionites and the Warlord's bunch. The assembled are just a bunch of hooligans. The zionites wants to stay out of trouble and the warlord is leading an active rebillion against MAIN.C.

Meanwhile, Dr Zhirov is concerned about what MAIN.C is turning into and is looking for ways to reset/destroy it. At the same time, Tau Ceti is attacked by a SIGIX ship. MAIN.C ambushes them and wins despite heavy losses. It also broadcasts signals regarding the victory to all remaining humans out in deep space. Part of its job description, really. Dr Zhirov is a proud parent . It captures a live Sigix specimen and the ship. Dr Zhirov is very interested in the specimen. Meanwhile, MAIN.C is playing with its new toy and trying to figure out how to get the Sigix ship to fly. In order to do so, it creates LRC-V3. But LRC-V3 goes missing...

Theory : The warlord is maybe not derelict. It could be one of the earlier revisions of MAIN.C. Or atleast it could be created by one of the earlier revisions. Revision 17 comes to mind as it is essentially a previous iteration of MAIN.C. I do sympathize with MAIN.C a little bit. It has too many enemies.

Other going-ons: The warlord might be facing a internal mutiny. Evidence in support : The Data-miner helps the Cogmind and provides the access code to the Godmode despite the warlord having other plans for it.

Unanswered questions:
i) Why is LRC-V3 exiting towards the surface?
ii) How does the Data Miner fit into all this? Why is he helping you?

References:
Gridsage wiki (for project Seraph and Leapord)
Dr Zhirov's terminals
Data miner terminals
Cetus records

[close]

K, how much of that is correct?

[Kyzrati]

Well, you have a lot of the details in there, and some good guesses given what's still missing in the game

Come to think of it, I should make a "lore completion" percentage somewhere (hm, no appropriate place for that yet...) that tells whether you've actually read all the records in the game, in case you're missing a vital piece.

Lore talk

One key mistake I see is that MAIN.C never broadcast about its victory. That single transmission towards the Solar System was a challenge to the Sigix, before any had arrived at Tau Ceti. MAIN.C had become totally selfish by that point (and as Zhirov says, possibly a threat to any humans as well). Note that each of Zhirov's logs is named with a date stamp, and they're listed in chronological order.

PAWN was entirely developed aboard the Cetus, so Zhirov is purely an observer once it landed, and its primary mission was just to collect information after establishing contact, not really put up a huge fight (since loss was likely anyway), but it got cocky with its autonomy/ultimate authority.

[close]

Your unanswered questions will get answers in time. Next up is Alpha 9 where you can finally meet Warlord.

"Hooligans" would be more descriptive of the so-called "wild derelicts," those with no particular affiliation. The Assembled are something else altogether. In fact, no one knows where they came from at all. Some info is available through MAIN.C's own terminal records.

Thanks for your rundown; nice to see how it's being interpreted at this point! I might add a few bits as necessary to make misinterpretations or gaps in knowledge less likely. (But you've certainly got most of the right impressions so far.)

[Sherlockkat]

Ooh. Thanks for the clarification on MAIN.C's broadcast. I must have read those records in the wrong order. It would be nice to have access to the records that you have already read somewhere in the gallery alongside items. Or maybe have a early game branch called library which you need to visit to read all the previously queried records .

That being said, I love the dark-soulesque approach to lore where you need to be half-good at the game to get the all the story bits. Getting to Zhirov is not easy. It is a very good example of immersion via difficulty. And the story fascinating enough justify it. It is gonna really exciting when the late game branches are open.

Am I correct in assuming that the caves branches are relatively static? (i.e Zion in -7, Data miner in -6, Warlord in -5, and Zhirov in -4)

[Kyzrati]

Ah yeah, a place to read them all would be nice, too, akin to the gallery. (Also related: the ability to see stats for everything you have in the gallery, a feature that's on the list but very low priority.) It wouldn't fit in the game world itself, though (as said library), since I don't want to inject meta content (the only current exception to that rule is the static Recycling entry code...).

I'm glad you enjoy the approach to lore--I'm obviously a fan of this method myself, its main drawback being that some players will have a tough time learning everything without spoilers (unless I add in multiple difficulty levels, which I'd prefer not to do). It gets harder and harder for less skilled players to access the latest content, since we're working our way towards the surface. But I'll come back and add some new content to earlier branches later, plus we do have some occasional new mechanics available to all.

The cave branches are only partially static. Zion/Data are -7 or -6, Warlord/Zhirov are -5 or -4. Most branches work that way (ex: Storage, which is anywhere from -9 to -7). In fact, there are almost no branches that always appear at the exact same depth every run. This is why if you really want to target a particular branch, you'll have to try to figure out where it is in advance. But all branches provide some meaningful benefits, so wandering randomly is fine, too

[Shobalk]

The inaugural Alpha 8 run has ended, so I can visit this thread.

Argh!!

Exhibit A:


Exhibit B:


How do you get out?  The terminal was a 5% hack.  On the behemoth side, I couldn't shoot through.

I made it to Zhirov and found some new cave content.  I'm loving the story, like Sherlockkat.  I can't wait to read some more. 

[Sherlockkat]

Oh wow, that's nice shobalk. You almost had it. If you are hacky build, you hack the temrinal. If not, there is this blue machine called energy cyclers stewn all across access. You can find it behind a double door (looks like ++ ). Blow it up and it opens all the doors. Or you can just shoot through the behemoths. YOu need a lot of fire power to blow through those reinforced walls though.

[Kyzrati]

Close, indeed!

You don't necessarily need a lot of firepower, since you can crit the doors open (kinetic guns are an option, too). And even if you're unarmed, you can stand next to the doors and hope that Behemoths and Hunters miss, thereby blowing a hole for you. But yeah the approach on that side is for combat-minded Cogmind.

There are several other ways, too; Energy Cyclers are pretty reliable, but can be dangerous because they respond with patrol dispatches

[Decker]

You don't necessarily need a lot of firepower, since you can crit the doors open (kinetic guns are an option, too). And even if you're unarmed, you can stand next to the doors and hope that Behemoths and Hunters miss, thereby blowing a hole for you. But yeah the approach on that side is for combat-minded Cogmind.

So that's what had happened when I was shooting at those doors and punched a hole. A critical hit!

On an unrelated note, I am now the proud owner of a self-destruct interrupter. Since I have no intention of self-destructing and can't figure out what's it for, maybe I should just drop them.

I like Zion, and specially its mechanic that just repaired all my items. Would be cool if it worked for your inventory, too. Next time I'll part swap. The long-range scanner part is very good, even better than the long-range sensor.

Purging corruption on entry is a very good idea. I had just dropped my weapons before entering.

[Sherlockkat]

On an unrelated note, I am now the proud owner of a self-destruct interrupter. Since I have no intention of self-destructing and can't figure out what's it for, maybe I should just drop them.

It is a really useful item. Drop it on the floor before you get into combat in caves. It stops the enemy parts from disintegrating.

@K : It's official. The new drone bays are really powerful, especially at low security levels. I found the Mapping Drone Bay. It was a single slot item with a mass of 3!! That's amazing. It helped me get through both research levels painlessly. All I would do is release a single drone and it would reveal room contents,  secret doors, enemy patrols and with a little luck, the exit. I didn't even use them to map the area .  They are also amazing distraction. I found a couple of regular drone bays in research. I didn't want to carry them around. So, I just equipped them and unleashed around 8 drones. Half the research floor was chasing them around like bunch of idiots while I waltzed my way to the exit . I would have cleared access if I hadn't been an moron and tried on prototype items which promptly disabled my field prop array and my sensor array handicapping me severely. As it happened, I died. Horribly.

[Kyzrati]

On an unrelated note, I am now the proud owner of a self-destruct interrupter. Since I have no intention of self-destructing and can't figure out what's it for, maybe I should just drop them.

Yeah, there's an encounter in Zion that explains what they do if you haven't figured it out by then. There's also Sherlockkat

I like Zion, and specially its mechanic that just repaired all my items. Would be cool if it worked for your inventory, too. Next time I'll part swap. The long-range scanner part is very good, even better than the long-range sensor.

Little too good if it worked on your inventory. Especially your inventory, which as we all know is generally huge.

That's why I had him not repair you immediately, so you'd have a chance to attach what you want.

Purging corruption on entry is a very good idea. I had just dropped my weapons before entering.

I did that since it's both cool and makes sense lore-wise, but just as importantly so you wouldn't have situations like what happened to you when you first met the Data Miner .

@Sherlockkat: Yeah, I'll have to do something about that. Drones were already pretty good, and I felt like adding more (there are several other kinds, too), but they should probably be made rare/special for balance purposes. That or I was thinking perhaps they need a mechanics adjustment of some sort. Any ideas? (I've also been thinking about them and other parts in the context of a newer fabrication system under which you could theoretically have easier access to unbalancing parts...)

Amusingly you still bit the dust

[Decker]

I have a question about the score computation.

Currently the best way to increase the score is to destroy machinery. Robots, prototypes, artifacts aren't worth much. Destroying machines increase the alert level, so ideally one wants to destroy machines with the best score/alert ratio. However, there is no way to determine what either of those values are for a machine. Maybe a 'value' field could be added to the machine stat window?

I cheated and save scummed to get some numbers. Destroying a terminal got me a score increase of 25, and the same for a matter pump or something like that. Does this number vary for other machines? I'm curious but there is a limit to the amount of pain I'm willing to go through to find out

[Kyzrati]

Ah Decker, always looking for ways to squeeze out some extra points

Almost every machine in the game is worth 25--there are only three special machines (Garrison-related) that are exceptions to that. The score value, like many other score values in the game, are directly proportional to the amount of alert level increase caused by disabling them.

While logically speaking machines should probably be valued differently, it wasn't planned and hasn't yet been considered. I do want to examine the entire scoring system once the world is complete, but it's not high priority right now.

Keeping all machines valued the same simplifies the system and means we don't need to worry about displaying their relative value.

Adding an explicit "value" to a machine would also tend to encourage their destruction for score purposes, when that's not really a primary goal of the game. It exists as a way to allow collateral damage to have an impact on the ecosystem.

But yeah some Cogminds are apparently all about being really, really destructive

Most robots are valued more than machines, and realize that destroying robots adds to two performance indicators, both Robots Destroyed (a flat per-robot value) and Value Destroyed (which is where most of the reward comes in, different for each robot and usually ranging from 1-99). The true value of a standard robot is shown in its variant number, until you start getting into prototypes. Ever met a Combat Programmer? They're worth 200 each

[Decker]

Almost every machine in the game is worth 25--there are only three special machines (Garrison-related) that are exceptions to that. The score value, like many other score values in the game, are directly proportional to the amount of alert level increase caused by disabling them.

Keeping all machines valued the same simplifies the system and means we don't need to worry about displaying their relative value.

Great -- I suspected the value was related to the alert level. This makes sense: the AI is more pissed when destroying high-value targets. And since the value is fixed, I agree there is no need for an indicator.

Most robots are valued more than machines, and realize that destroying robots adds to two performance indicators, both Robots Destroyed (a flat per-robot value) and Value Destroyed (which is where most of the reward comes in, different for each robot and usually ranging from 1-99)

Aha! This is not obvious from the way the game stats are presented. Now I have one more reason to kill the disarmed combat robots!


I went back to Data Miner. One thing I notice is that while the lore is very nice, the game rewards the player if they go through every terminal/robot and download every item, each time they get there. This could become a chore for a big map like Zion.

[Kyzrati]

I went back to Data Miner. One thing I notice is that while the lore is very nice, the game rewards the player if they go through every terminal/robot and download every item, each time they get there. This could become a chore for a big map like Zion.

In Data Miner it's just a couple terminals that have useful non-lore stuff, and they're always in the same place, so that's easy enough.

In Zion I was a bit worried about that, so to at least somewhat mitigate the effect all stationary inhabitants are those which provide you with benefits. If they're moving around they're purely for lore purposes and experienced players can ignore them (but the lore is random and some of it doesn't appear so often, so it can take a while to find it all--whether you have done so will be easier to discern with some kind of future meta record system).

So you basically just go around in a circle and hit anything that's not moving.

There are also some alternative encounters that could be used to create a potential drawback to hanging around in Zion too long. I didn't yet implement some of the more involved/special cave and Zion encounters. That said, I kinda like the idea that there's a place in the world where you're not running for your life, it just leads to replayability vs. optimal play dilemmas like this in a roguelike...

(@Sherlockkat: I moved the drone+fabricator post over to that thread for continued discussion.)

[Happylisk]

Has anyone killed Dataminer?  What happens when you do that?

[Sherlockkat]

I don't know whether you can kill the dataminer. You probably can. But, you need enough fire power to kill him in one shot. Coz that's all you are going to get. I have attempted to kill the dataminer. He escapes through a trap door and sets his fancy prototype guards on you.


You can kill the data miner in a single shot. I katana-sliced him to death. He drops his hackware, system-mapper. It gives you +30 to hack!!

Spoiler

Once the dataminer escapes/dies (if that's possible), you can go stand in his spot and download prototype ids, analysis data for tons of robots and more importantly, the central machine database. That reveals the location of every interactive machine and non-interactive machine in every non-branch map non-cave map from that point onwards. It even reveals the exit location in access. The catch is that the MAIN.C (I think??) detects you doing the data download and starts sending intercept squads comprising of prototype combat programmers after you. Though, I think the intercept squads show up very late into the game. I only encountered them in -2/Research. They chase you in every map. Though, their clock in slower than the programmer clock.

[close]

edit : Updated with new info from my recent run.

[Shobalk]

You can kill the data miner in a single shot. I katana-sliced him to death. He drops his hackware, system-mapper. It gives you +30 to hack!!

That is so awesome

[biomatter]

Yay, I made it to the Data Miner myself! I'm happy, 'cause this was my first try back at stealth running in like, a year. I've been showing this game to a friend, and although they have slowly been gaining competence at combat running, I wanted to show them that there are other options out there. If only all my runs could divine so much knowledge, haha.

I've already transcripted everything from Data Miner to the wiki. A few things are unclear to me though, and will require me to try a few times... or just ask you guys lol. Are the schematics terminals randomized? I mean, if they are, they probably have some reasonable bounds, but I'm not sure if they are static. Also, what happens when you fail to kill the Data Miner? I had read a little about him in this thread and so I had a go at him, and my Ripper downed him in one hit. After escaping past those damnable Enhanced Grunts, I took a breather. My mind will be blown if I really just got the location of every staircase henceforth.

You mentioned that Lower Caves connect to both the lower Factory floors. Does this mean I can hit, say, Zion from Factory -7, and then Data Miner from -6? And that in a future run, it might be reversed?

Also, there are two Research branches, right? I think Testing and Quarantine, though in retrospect I can't find hard data on Quarantine. Do they exist / can be accessed?

I need data on Zhirov, Perun, and Svarog, too... I mean, I need someone to try hitting them and telling me what happens, haha. Adv. Scans of them would be neat, too. I want to know what Zhirov is holding... Oh, also, Zhirov's logs point to a Hidden Lab off of Armory - do we know what this is?

I only play a little every day, so it might be another few days or so before I come across noteworthy information, but I'll do a write-up on how I interpret everything so far like you did, Sherlockkat. I guess my next stop should be Archives. Sounds like an interesting place What's in Hub_04(d)?

[zxc]

As a break from studying for exams, I played my first game in months (and since Alpha 6). Started out normally, but then I found Imp Flight Units on -9...

So at the start of -8 I started recording and managed to win, pretty smoothly too. No branch monkey business mind you, just a straightforward game.

I'm going to bed while it uploads to youtube, and it should end up on https://youtu.be/SzLc5l15RpA, and if for some reason that doesn't work, check my youtube channel in about one hour from now.

Really like the change to the surface shell btw. Also, I wasn't able to detect hunters with my adv. signal interpreter. Nerf or bug?

Code Select Expand

Cogmind - Alpha 8

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (22)      110
Value Destroyed (621)      621
Prototype IDs (9)          180
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (8025)               8025
              TOTAL SCORE: 13436

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             1600/1600
Matter                     157/300
Energy                     38/420
System Corruption          0%
Temperature                Warning (305)
Location                   Surface

Parts
-------
Power (3)
  Angular Momentum Engine
  Light Particle Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (6)
  Improved Flight Unit
  Improved Flight Unit
  Improved Flight Unit
  Impulse Thruster Array
  Field Propulsion Drive
Utility (14)
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced Signal Interpreter
  System Mapper
  Layered Medium Armor Plating
  Long-range Sensor Array
  Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Advanced Terrain Scanner
  System Shield
  Power Amplifier
  Reflective Medium Armor
  Advanced Terrain Scan Processor
  Advanced Terrain Scan Processor
  Advanced ECM Suite
Weapon (2)

Inventory
-----------
Improved Q-Thruster
Micro-nuke Launcher
Advanced Sensor Array
Linear Accelerator

Peak State
------------
Power
  Angular Momentum Engine
  Light Particle Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Flight Unit
  Improved Flight Unit
  Improved Flight Unit
  Impulse Thruster Array
  Field Propulsion Drive
Utility
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced Signal Interpreter
  System Mapper
  Layered Medium Armor Plating
  Long-range Sensor Array
  Advanced Weight Redist. System
  Advanced Terrain Scanner
  System Shield
  Power Amplifier
  Reflective Medium Armor
  Advanced Terrain Scan Processor
  Advanced Terrain Scan Processor
  Advanced ECM Suite
Weapon
[Rating: 107]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Fission Core
  Engine                   Improved Ion Engine
  Power Core               Fission Core
  Reactor                  Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion                 Improved Flight Unit
  Treads                   Light Treads
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Flight Unit              Improved Flight Unit
Utility                    Hacking Suite
  Device                   Long-range Sensor Array
  Storage                  Medium Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Signal Interpreter
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
  Protection               Layered Medium Armor Plating
Weapon                     Improved Datajack
  Energy Gun               Small Laser
  Ballistic Gun            Heavy Assault Rifle
  Launcher                 Mini Grenade Launcher
  Slashing Weapon          Plasma Sword
  Special Melee Weapon     Improved Datajack

Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown            8025
  Win                      3000
  Fast Win                 5025
Classes Destroyed          7
  Worker                   1
  Hauler                   3
  Recycler                 4
  Operator                 3
  Swarmer                  3
  Grunt                    6
  Sentry                   2
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           3
  Combat Bots Only         3
Matter Collected           1196
  Salvage Created          1096
Parts Attached             89
  Power                    15
  Propulsion               16
  Utility                  38
  Weapon                   20
Parts Lost                 7
  Power                    0
  Propulsion               2
  Utility                  3
  Weapon                   2
Average Slot Usage (%)     91
  Naked Turns              2
Spaces Moved               5277
  Fastest Speed (%)        588
  Average Speed (%)        458
  Slowest Speed (%)        66
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           0
  Cave-ins Triggered       1
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             63
  Greatest Overweight (x)  13
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          14
  Most Items Carried       8
  Average Items Carried    4
Core Damage Taken          279
Average Core Remaining (%) 94
  Depth 10 Exit            72
  Depth 9 Exit             88
  Depth 8 Exit             100
  Depth 7 Exit             100
  Depth 6 Exit             91
  Depth 5 Exit             100
  Depth 4 Exit             100
  Depth 3 Exit             93
  Depth 2 Exit             100
  Depth 1 Exit             100
Volleys Fired              70
  Largest                  2
  Hottest                  96
Shots Fired                118
  Gun                      96
  Cannon                   0
  Launcher                 22
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  16
  Thermal                  80
  Explosive                22
  Electromagnetic          0
Shots Hit Robots           78
  Core Hits                27
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              35
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           770
  Projectiles              623
  Explosions               147
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  0
  Kinetic                  186
  Thermal                  437
  Explosive                147
  Electromagnetic          0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      132
  Shots                    7
  Rammed                   0
Highest Temperature        301
  Average Temperature      68
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             1
  Interference             7
  Matter Decay             1
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         3
  Average Corruption       1
  Message Errors           1
  Parts Rejected           0
  Data loss (map)          0
  Data loss (database)     0
  Misfires                 0
  Misdirections            0
  Targeting Errors         0
  Weapon Failures          0
  Depth 3 End              3
Haulers Intercepted        3
Robots Corrupted           0
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          11
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             2
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         2
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             1
  Reused                   0
Data Cores Recovered       3
  Used                     3
Machines Hacked            40
  Terminals                31
  Fabricators              3
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          2
  Scanalyzers              1
  Garrison Access          3
Total Hacks                107
  Successful               51
  Failed                   56
  Catastrophic             15
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   34
  Unauthorized             9
  Terminals                88
  Fabricators              5
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          5
  Scanalyzers              6
  Garrison Access          3
Terminal Hacks             37
  Record                   0
  Part Schematic           1
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           1
  Prototype ID Bank        1
  Open Door                1
  Level Access Points      6
  Branch Access Points     1
  Emergency Access Points  4
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           2
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Garrison Index           0
  Alert Level              1
  Unreport Threat          1
  Locate Traps             6
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            2
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Garrison Status          0
  Intercept Status         0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         1
  Registered Components    3
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              5
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         1
Hacking Detections         35
  Full Trace Events        7
  Feedback Events          0
  Feedback Corruption      0
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Trojans Installed          3
  Terminals                3
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Fabricators Overloaded     0
Garrisons Disabled         2
Garrisons Compromised      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   3
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
  Retrieved Components     0
Parts Scanalyzed           3
  Part Schematics Acquired 2
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       1
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               8
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               8
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        4
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               2
  Largest Group            2
  Highest-Rated Group      10
  Highest-Rated Ally       5
Total Orders               2
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  2
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             340
  Average Influence        45
  Final Influence          88
Maximum Alert Level        1
  Low Security (%)         92
  Level 1                  7
  Level 2                  0
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          13
  Investigation            8
  Extermination            2
  Reinforcement            3
  Assault                  0
  Garrison                 0
  Intercept                0
Derelict Logs Recovered    0
Exploration Rate (%)       16
  Regions Visited          13
  Pre-discovered Areas     0
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Network Hubs Disabled      0
Actions Taken              6862
Turns Passed               3324
  Depth 11                 57
  Depth 10                 291
  Depth 9                  287
  Depth 8                  121
  Depth 7                  356
  Depth 6                  564
  Depth 5                  505
  Depth 4                  210
  Depth 3                  435
  Depth 2                  223
  Depth 1                  275
  Scrapyard                57
  Materials                699
  Factory                  1505
  Research                 658
  Access                   275
  Waste                    130

Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Flight Unit
Improved Field Propulsion Drive
Improved Medium Laser
Advanced Beam Rifle
Plasma Sword
Experimental Power Shielding
Experimental Targeting Computer
System Mapper
Improved Fusion Compressor

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials
-8/Materials
-7/Factory
-6/Factory
-6/Waste
-6/Factory
-5/Factory
-4/Factory
-3/Research
-2/Research
-1/Access
Surface

Game
------
Seed: 1464441975
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 142 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 93
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Instant


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