Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]

[Shobalk]

Ensuring that each fab has a limited number of uses would prevent abuses.

The time constraint is also good, but it should be implemented properly. Waiting around doing nothing is boring. Instead, modify the food clock directly.

I like the limited uses idea to prevent abuse.  I also agree in principle with the destructive matter container idea, but in practice, I think that'd tick me off too   I love matter containers once I actually start carrying them around. 

In matter critical situations, I call it Ghost Busting™.  Throw it on the floor and step on it to unleash the whoopass.

[Kyzrati]

I think the limited uses idea could work here, as some kind of internal limitation on the Fabricator's own supplies (probably higher for higher ratings). In most cases we have the fact that hacking already has a cap since you can no longer reset a trace, though that alone may not be enough to prevent someone really focused on hacking from getting a bit too much out of one machine.

That said, limitations kinda go further against my original hopes you could seriously build and maintain an army of robots. This discussion has mostly been revolving around parts, but robots can be built, too! However, I'm not so certain about the long-term viability of that plan, anyway, since Fabricator distribution is not guaranteed....

Anyway, the ultimate goals are to avoid grind (both the necessary and optimal kinds) while making fabrication useful, so it'll be some combination of all these, um, conflicting opinions

I kinda like the idea of destroying the matter storage units, and can see that working with instant fabrication pretty well.

I love matter containers once I actually start carrying them around.

In matter critical situations, I call it Ghost Busting™.  Throw it on the floor and step on it to unleash the whoopass.

Heh, I was wondering if anyone was doing that.

I tend to ignore containers for the most part, but once I have one or two, especially once full, it's hard to put it down because they're nice to have just in case.

[Happylisk]

Some more observations: The mines now have derelict logs.  Section 7 is a branch in Research.... and there's another mid game branch called Zion.  I have no idea what Zion is, but I suspect its a derelict city and a hat tip to the matrix.  There are Main.C garrisons in caves with special terminals that if you hack them give you nice intel about future levels.  Finally, the god mode hack that data miner gives you changes each game. 

Caves are really high risk high reward.  Going into them with an EMP AoE weapon is rough.  My runs keep ending the proximity caves right after data miner... too much attrition.

E: There's a branch in caves call Zhirov or something like that, and a branch in research called Testing which I had never seen before. 

[Decker]

I made it to the Data Miner branch again. Just as I was about to reach the terminals, a corruption misfire takes out the conduit. Of course. But I was prepared. Even though I only had 150 integrity left, I had three launchers, armor and reserve matter. They cried, they died. I still got the lore, though I think I missed the God Mode hack that Happylisk referred to. Next time I'll drop my weapons on entry.

Killing the guards appear pointless. But it looks a safe place to purge corruption, if you don't mind the grind.

By the way, in the caves, you can pick up stuff and drop it again to prevent it to melt. The scavengers aren't very aggressive, and it can come handy to have a stockpile of weapons.

[Sherlockkat]

score

Cogmind - Alpha 7b

Name: Sherlockkat

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (32)      160
Value Destroyed (856)      856
Prototype IDs (4)          80
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (0)                  0
              TOTAL SCORE: 5596

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             0/1600
Matter                     300/300
Energy                     49/50
System Corruption          2%
Temperature                Cool (0)
Location                   -1/Access

Parts
-------
Power (2)
Propulsion (6)
Utility (15)
  Improved Signal Interpreter
  Advanced System Shield
Weapon (2)

Inventory
-----------
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Advanced Sensor Array

Peak State
------------
Power
  Nuclear Core
  Improved Ion Engine
Propulsion
  Impulse Thruster
  Flight Unit
  Improved VTOL Module
  Nuclear Pulse Array
  Improved VTOL Module
Utility
  System Shield
  Hacking Suite
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced Sensor Array
  Hacking Suite
  Hacking Suite
  Improved Signal Interpreter
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced System Shield
Weapon
  Great Axe
  Axe
[Rating: 68]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Nuclear Core
  Engine                   Ion Engine
  Power Core               Nuclear Core
Propulsion                 Flight Unit
  Treads                   Medium Treads
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Flight Unit              Flight Unit
Utility                    Hacking Suite
  Device                   Sensor Array
  Processor                Improved Signal Interpreter
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
Weapon                     Axe
  Energy Gun               Medium Laser
  Ballistic Gun            Light Assault Rifle
  Launcher                 Precision Grenade Launcher
  Slashing Weapon          Axe

Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown            0
Classes Destroyed          5
  Worker                   4
  Recycler                 3
  Operator                 5
  Swarmer                  14
  Grunt                    6
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           6
  Combat Bots Only         4
Matter Collected           986
  Salvage Created          1064
Parts Attached             69
  Power                    10
  Propulsion               22
  Utility                  16
  Weapon                   21
Parts Lost                 27
  Power                    5
  Propulsion               9
  Utility                  9
  Weapon                   4
Average Slot Usage (%)     74
  Naked Turns              2
Spaces Moved               4832
  Fastest Speed (%)        434
  Average Speed (%)        298
  Slowest Speed (%)        66
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           1
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             28
  Greatest Overweight (x)  6
  Average Overweight (x)   0
Largest Inventory          4
  Most Items Carried       4
  Average Items Carried    3
Core Damage Taken          2138
Average Core Remaining (%) 89
  Depth 10 Exit            47
  Depth 9 Exit             93
  Depth 8 Exit             96
  Depth 7 Exit             90
  Depth 6 Exit             100
  Depth 5 Exit             88
  Depth 4 Exit             100
  Depth 3 Exit             100
  Depth 2 Exit             87
Volleys Fired              65
  Largest                  2
  Hottest                  90
Shots Fired                108
  Gun                      94
  Cannon                   0
  Launcher                 14
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  31
  Thermal                  40
  Explosive                14
  Electromagnetic          23
Shots Hit Robots           78
  Core Hits                50
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              20
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 20
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           2438
  Projectiles              759
  Explosions               1030
  Melee                    632
  Ramming                  17
  Kinetic                  157
  Thermal                  347
  Explosive                1030
  Electromagnetic          255
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 632
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      82
  Shots                    4
  Rammed                   1
Highest Temperature        187
  Average Temperature      43
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Interference             0
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         2
  Average Corruption       1
  Message Errors           0
  Parts Rejected           0
  Data loss (map)          0
  Data loss (database)     0
  Misfires                 0
  Misdirections            0
  Targeting Errors         0
  Weapon Failures          0
  Depth 7 End              1
Haulers Intercepted        0
Robots Corrupted           0
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          23
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Data Cores Recovered       0
  Used                     0
Machines Hacked            30
  Terminals                27
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          3
Total Hacks                63
  Successful               25
  Failed                   38
  Catastrophic             7
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   36
  Unauthorized             42
  Terminals                56
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          7
Terminal Hacks             18
  Record                   0
  Part Schematic           0
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        0
  Open Door                0
  Level Access Points      4
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  1
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           2
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Garrison Index           0
  Alert Level              0
  Unreport Threat          3
  Locate Traps             3
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Garrison Status          0
  Intercept Status         0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         2
  Registered Components    2
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              1
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         23
  Full Trace Events        6
  Feedback Events          0
  Feedback Corruption      0
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Trojans Installed          6
  Terminals                6
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Fabricators Overloaded     0
Garrisons Disabled         1
Garrisons Compromised      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   0
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
  Retrieved Components     0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               1
  Largest Group            1
  Highest-Rated Group      7
  Highest-Rated Ally       7
Total Orders               0
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  0
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             260
  Average Influence        24
  Final Influence          0
Maximum Alert Level        1
  Low Security (%)         97
  Level 1                  2
  Level 2                  0
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          21
  Investigation            7
  Extermination            0
  Reinforcement            13
  Assault                  0
  Garrison                 1
  Intercept                0
Derelict Logs Recovered    2
Exploration Rate (%)       19
  Regions Visited          12
  Pre-discovered Areas     0
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Network Hubs Disabled      0
Turns Passed               2596
  Depth 11                 85
  Depth 10                 403
  Depth 9                  272
  Depth 8                  180
  Depth 7                  623
  Depth 6                  226
  Depth 5                  176
  Depth 4                  154
  Depth 3                  97
  Depth 2                  203
  Depth 1                  177
  Scrapyard                85
  Materials                743
  Factory                  1179
  Research                 300
  Access                   177
  Mines                    112
                           0

Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved VTOL Module
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Improved Q-Thruster
Precision Grenade Launcher

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials
-9/Mines
-8/Materials
-7/Factory
-6/Factory
-5/Factory
-4/Factory
-3/Research
-2/Research
-1/Access

Game
------
Seed: 1459899210
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 51 min
Sessions: 3
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 199
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 12/Terminus
Map View: 83x54


X=9985895549312686648825128122
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815254511826941668266181816281
855165158486666541956985612218
158562866941911658266666162869
218846169886188518245685811685
689169165986485881858859856911
469891295186489685895542829581
561111695881888856888881886181
885989888881885881889858888898
958911892651288881115881886819
588881894881888889888881885551
188596888828885881188889888881
885881888889888881885881118889
888881885881888889885289689685
558988848511814811516159888852
629112186895585116881598552418
261466686586118811869111695811
811586118666828699116461665181
4141681111519461

[close]

Chalk one more up for hunters . This one critted my power supply off slowing me down. Through a wall. The swarmers and programmers finished me off. Was so close to winning...

Is there anything hunters can't do? You run into rooms. They shoot through walls. They hit like a truck, thanks to long ranged weapons with high damage and high crits. They dodge well, coz cloaking. They are accurate over a long ranges, coz lol targeting computers. You can't see them coming via sensors due to their innate cloaking. Run from them. They send their drones after you. Jerks.

On a more serious note, speed/hack runs more or less feel the same except hunters deliver more ouchies and are even more hard to detect. I was very close to winning when the finally decided that they had enough of my bs and put an end to the whole affair.

[Kyzrati]

Super low kill count! Quite a fast run there.

They are (once again) the deadliest of the common robots, for sure, and the ones that I most fear meeting. In addition to their other re-buffs, I did make them harder to detect without the best sensors, but you can still see them if you get the Exp. version (or use other methods like terminal tracking).

The Hunter prototypes defending the Hub are even worse

I wonder how they'll compare to the new Programmer model which I don't believe anyone has encountered yet--no drones or cloaking, but they're faster and pack a punch.

[Happylisk]

I recently had a run end on -4 after I encounter five (!) teams of hunters in the span of a few minutes - the last fight involved fighting 4 hunters at once.  I can't imagine the cogmind that can handle 10 hunters in a brief span of time. 

When I have a spare moment I really need to blow up data miner and see what happens.  These days I try to always have a signal interpreter when I go into the lower caves to make sure I don't miss him. 

[Kyzrati]

Once Alpha 9 is done, the difficulty of the latter floors will be a different story. The Hunters just got their upgrade first

Alpha 8 will also be adding some more artifacts!

My last seed run got nasty when I hit several hunters at once, too, but I can't blame it on them since they had plenty of assistance.

[Sherlockkat]

I wonder how they'll compare to the new Programmer model which I don't believe anyone has encountered yet--no drones or cloaking, but they're faster and pack a punch.

Just died to the new programmers in research/-2 . Holy crap, their weapons. I wish I was playing a combat build so that I could get my hands on them. As a speed build, I just had to settle for watching those programmers vaporize (literally!!) haulers and recylcers as I used them as cover. Didn't help though. They kept up with me and pack a lot of hurt. Well played, K.

edit : Seems like there a huge score bonus for making 'it' happen. It might be a nice way for speed builds to prop up their sad scores. Question :Do the combat progs not show up till -2? I was wondering how the game got hard until they showed up.

[Kyzrati]

Ooh, you found them! Good thing they're completely optional since they won't show up unless you did that thing

Someone wants you dead!

[Sherlockkat]

Ooh, you found them! Good thing they're completely optional since they won't show up unless you did that thing

Haha. The thing reminded me of this scene from the matrix.

[Kyzrati]

Hahahaha, exactly. There are a growing number of Matrix and Star Wars references in here.

[Sherlockkat]

This may or may not be a typo. The log message says "...pinpointed LCS-V3...". Should it not be LRC-V3?

[Kyzrati]

Whoops, yes, that's a typo, thanks!

And on reviewing what you get by doing that thing, I just made another addition. I'm also thinking of having robot analyses give you a dodge bonus, too, that way it's not only combat builds that can get some benefit out of that bit.

[Sherlockkat]

Yes plz. I will take another +10 to dodge incoming fire. I want to go back down there with my regular hacker build. The build I was running on my last game was fairly crappy. I had nothing but propulsion and enh optical array to carry me through. So, I was pretty much on my last "legs" when I showed up on -2. A hacky build can leverage the machine locations much more effectively.

[Kyzrati]

I think we'll start with 5%, but I'm sure you'll take that, too

[Sherlockkat]

I think we'll start with 5%, but I'm sure you'll take that, too

Fine . I knew you were going to say no to +10. Worth a try though.
Lore Q:

Spoiler

LRC = Leapord Revison Control? The cogmind is clearly part of the revision series and we know that it was designed as a controller for Leapord. Would perfectly understand if you don't wanna answer..

[close]

[Kyzrati]

Oh here we go again with tags

Spoiler

The cogmind is clearly part of the revision series

You might be missing some lore there; these two are unrelated.

and we know that it was designed as a controller for Leapord.

This, however, is true.

The name is not a strict acronym (and is never written in an expanded form anywhere), though if you had to force it there's "LeopaRd Controller, Version 3."

[close]

[Happylisk]

Ooh, you found them! Good thing they're completely optional since they won't show up unless you did that thing

Someone wants you dead!

Ooh I really want to figure out what this thing is.  I'm going to try a hack for Record(LRC-V3) at the oracle terminal.  Your matrix reference makes me believe that the Oracle is involved....

Also I love the battlestar galactica-esque overarching plot in a game otherwise filled with robots.  Poor humans

[Kyzrati]

Aw, poor humans... you'll learn a bit more about them in Alpha 8

[Sherlockkat]

Re spoilers : Ya. I read the records in Cetus. I don't know why I thought the Cogmind had anything to do with the revision series. Faulty memory .

[Enno]

Sir, any informations about new hacks ?
and i saw in scoresheet that it's possible to set
trojans in every machiene !? but how ? and what kind of and so on...
will we get some informations âbout all this new stuff ? please ^____^

[Kyzrati]

Well, I've given out some of the unlisted hacks while streaming, and others you can find via the game lore (via terminals). I also gave away 10 of them in the spoiler-filled Unauthorized Hacks blog post last year. There are currently 14 unlisted hacks in the world, 4 of which you can learn in game without spoilers. Many more are coming to the lore in Alphas 8 and 9.

However, there are no Trojans for some machines (they're listed in the score sheet purely for completion's sake, since they may one day have some ). Now that you mention it, I think I'll add a Trojan to the Recycling Unit now that it has its final behavior. In general Trojans aren't as widely applicable as brute force hacks since the former are for continuous effects, so not as logical in many cases.

Feel free to make suggestions for the two types of hacks! (It's best if anyone who wants to do this should start a new thread in the Ideas board that everyone can contribute to.)

[Sherlockkat]

How about a trojan which lets repair units repair parts for which we have schematics for? That gives us more incentive to use scanalyzers.

edit: Though, this could be a feature of repair units in general now that I think about it.

[Kyzrati]

That sounds interesting, I hadn't thought of adding Trojans that enhance a machine's regular functionality like that. By this you mean even Repair Stations that aren't a high enough rating? My current thought about the Stations is to actually change them so that any of them can repair anything, it would just be a matter of time. (And perhaps having the schematic could reduce that time requirement, a nice bonus.)

Note: Scanalyzer functionality isn't finalized--same with some other machines--which makes it kinda hard to give the best suggestions . There will be more incentives to come.