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[okr]

Josh, have you ever considered generating music procedurally? Or at least using some kind of Markov chain algorithms to mix different tracks of pre-recorded music/vary the tempo etc?  I was just wondering how well it would work in Cogmind.

I've been following /r/proceduralgeneration for a while and I think that procedurally generated music is an interesting idea that doesn't see much use in games. Not that I know what I'm talking about (I'm really bad at procedural generation programming) and how much effort(time, money)  it would require compared to making a traditional soundtrack.

It could potentially limit the overall game filesize as well

[Kyzrati]

Earlier this year I did do some searching around and listening to the state of procedural music, and honestly I didn't much like what I heard.

Certainly a lot of work I wouldn't really want (or even be able) to invest in myself, though I'm already planning to hire someone to do the music part, assuming that's what we want (this topic will be a big thing for later--how musicy we want the music, or whether it should be very ambient, but it's too early for me to get into that discussion now). In either case, it would be someone else doing this, but I don't think procedural music is all that great.

Here I'm talking about 100% procedural music, however, and you might be referring partially to adaptive/dynamic music, which is sometimes used in games and isn't quite as extreme. The latter I'd be interested in, but it's generally very costly, and also more difficult to program (generally it requires using additional external libraries, as well as finding a composer well-versed in this particular field--not cheap!).

[okr]

Certainly a lot of work I wouldn't really want (or even be able) to invest in myself, though I'm already planning to hire someone to do the music part,

Yes, I was just wondering if it's easier to hire a person to compose music or to hire a person to program a procedural music generator.

assuming that's what we want (this topic will be a big thing for later--how musicy we want the music, or whether it should be very ambient, but it's too early for me to get into that discussion now).

I'm looking forward to that discussion. Your decision in this topic can dramatically change the reception of Cogmind by current fans and future buyers alike. The good thing about music is, you can always give players an option to turn it off

In either case, it would be someone else doing this, but I don't think procedural music is all that great.

My opinion is that nobody ever seriously dedicated resources to make it work, but it has the potential to be great, especially in procedurally generated context.

you might be referring partially to adaptive/dynamic music, which is sometimes used in games and isn't quite as extreme. The latter I'd be interested in, but it's generally very costly, and also more difficult to program (generally it requires using additional external libraries, as well as finding a composer well-versed in this particular field--not cheap!).

It is an option I've been also thinking about. I do understand It would be expensive. You have a strong track record in making good design decisions so I'll probably like whatever you choose

[Kyzrati]

Thanks for the vote of confidence

I must say that in the back of my mind, my design self is already trying to veer away from music music, while the long-time VGM fan in me is trying to veer towards having the awesomest OST ever

What you say is very true, though.

Your decision in this topic can dramatically change the reception of Cogmind by current fans and future buyers alike. The good thing about music is, you can always give players an option to turn it off

Another reason to give it plenty of thought, and no doubt some real testing!

[okr]

I must say that in the back of my mind, my design self is already trying to veer away from music music, while the long-time VGM fan in me is trying to veer towards having the awesomest OST ever

Well, the reason that proc-gen music came to my mind is probably because everything in Cogmind so far is very elegant design-wise. Given how small the size of the game is right now, putting a real, recorded soundtrack in it feels a bit like slapping a huge chunk of pizza dough on a tasty piece of sushi. However much I love pizza, it feels wrong somehow.

That said, the soundtrack in FTL is more than half of my gaming experience every time I play that game.

[Kyzrati]

I certainly see high-quality music as a crucial part of a good gaming experience, and it's also been a long-underrated part of game development (though this has changed significantly over the past decade). That said, it's not necessarily suited so well to particular types of games. We'll see

[Sylverone]

I realize this is an older thread, just thought I'd leave a note here before the music issue comes around: What I'm really curious about is the direction you are going to take with the ambient sounds. Presently there are just a few (terminals and generators being the ones I know of), and I find that those really lend a special atmosphere to the game. So however the music goes, I'm really looking forward to when the localized ambient sounds are expanded - and, perhaps, some of the interaction sounds diversified (sounds effects of the "living dungeon/complex", such a serfs sweeping, tunnelers, engineers, etc.).

[Kyzrati]

As for common actions by Workers/Tunnelers/Engineers, those will not have sounds (nor animations) because doing so isn't compatible with the potential speed of the game when you're racing from one place to another. Imagine how it would sound if there were even just a few of them in the same area and you moved around a lot nearby, or even worse, held down the wait key to pass dozens of turns in a couple seconds

The plan is to give all machines ambient sounds, though, yes. Right now the stuff that's in there is just to demonstrate it, so it's only a small portion. I'd like to wait until most of the world is complete so that the process to give audio to the remainder (and whatever else is added between now and then) is as efficient as possible. The sounds will be similar in style to what we have now--looping effects that reflect what the machine is (obviously there's room to be creative with many of these machine types ).

Have you tried the latest version? I threw a track I had into the caves as ambient background noise that permeates the entire area. Not necessarily the direction for that stuff, but it's an idea. No one has even commented on that yet, actually. Once the machine ambient effects are in there, then we can see what style of map-wide ambient can be used without ruining everything else

[Sylverone]

If I make it there I'll comment on it here.