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[Star Weaver]

So this guy, which looks like a MST3K-robot impression of Snoopy (I love your art, this is just what my brain does in general; i think it's insisting the 0's are eyes and going from there)



Several questions:

• What does the efficiency represent? Is a percentage of the construction matter of an item that gets returned to you?
• Does "damaged" mean things that are redlined from permanent disabling, or are we just talking about recycling items as they fall off of you?
• For that matter, does it recycle items at any point before they are normally destroyed?
• And while we're here, what does the <parallel_ok, resume_ok> mean? I've been seeing them on a lot of items lately. I mean, the first one sounds like it's equivalent to stacking but resume I have no idea.

ETA: My friend who plays this game also says that this device eats anything that isn't 100% and only takes stuff out of the inventory, is that true?

[Kyzrati]

• What does the efficiency represent? Is a percentage of the construction matter of an item that gets returned to you?
• Does "damaged" mean things that are redlined from permanent disabling, or are we just talking about recycling items as they fall off of you?
• For that matter, does it recycle items at any point before they are normally destroyed?
• And while we're here, what does the <parallel_ok, resume_ok> mean? I've been seeing them on a lot of items lately. I mean, the first one sounds like it's equivalent to stacking but resume I have no idea.

ETA: My friend who plays this game also says that this device eats anything that isn't 100% and only takes stuff out of the inventory, is that true?

Yep, the description says "in inventory," and "damaged" literally means any item that's taken damage.

Efficiency is the percent of the maximum amount of matter possible for that item, yes. Not quite equivalent to construction matter, but relative to all other recycling-related mechanics, such as the Recycling machines.

<parallel_ok> means you can have multiples of the same part active at once, and they all do their thing simultaneously (working "in parallel"). Not quite the same as stacking because the latter implies you get a better result with more than one, e.g. with Targeting Computers.

<resume_ok> is used on parts that have functions which take effect over time. It takes time to recycle an item, for example, and the unit must be active for a certain duration before it can complete the process, but you can turn it off temporarily and then reactivate it later to continue the process. There are other parts with similar usage.

I'll add those to the manual somewhere...

Personally I think this is one of the more useless parts in the game, but maybe someone will find it useful? Even if not, it can be a fluff item.

[Star Weaver]

Huh, I'm surprised to hear you think it's useless since you're the one who decided to make it a two-slot item :3 I mean, I agree, but I'm hardly an expert.

Maybe a utility that boosted matter reclamation from parts getting blown off of you would be actually useful to a kinetic/explosive combat build. Possibly, since the part's being blown off of you when it happens, strew the matter about on the floor, making it only super effective with a tractor beam also.

Aside: do footprint analyzers stack?

[Kyzrati]

Huh, I'm surprised to hear you think it's useless since you're the one who decided to make it a two-slot item :3 I mean, I agree, but I'm hardly an expert.

Ha, well remember that not all parts are meant to be used by the player, too! That's what I mean by fluff.

You will find some parts that are outright worse than others, because all robots in the world are composed of parts from the same large set, and all are interchangeable with your own parts, so inevitably there will some that they need/want that you don't.

Of course, there are many more factors involved here--some players will find interesting uses for some parts that other players completely ignore.

I do try to design parts so that as many as possible are useful to you in some way, even if under narrower circumstances. In a few cases I haven't found enough of a reason to use a few parts, but the lack of evidence is not grounds for complete removal, especially not when other robots can logically be equipped with them for fun. It adds flavor!

Maybe a utility that boosted matter reclamation from parts getting blown off of you would be actually useful to a kinetic/explosive combat build. Possibly, since the part's being blown off of you when it happens, strew the matter about on the floor, making it only super effective with a tractor beam also.

That could be a good one, yes. Maybe even a possibility for a revamped more useful version of the Field Recycling Unit! I'd like to say that I could just add this as a secondary feature for it, but then it would also be eating your damaged inventory items at the same time...

Aside: do footprint analyzers stack?

Any utility with a stacking effect will indicate <stacks>. If not then it only takes the maximum value. (So in this case, no.)

[Draco18s]

I think the problem with the recycler is that there is no discrimination. Imp. Titanium Hardened Treads with 199/200 integrity (a fine part!) Will get recycled of it is the only damaged part in your inventory.

I would make use of it, sometimes, if there was a "recycle this" command. Then again, maybe not, as I rarely need raw matter.

[Kyzrati]

True, being completely indiscriminate is a pretty big drag on its usage. You generally want to keep parts that still have high integrity, especially the good ones.

As you said, matter is generally plentiful enough that you don't have to worry about it much, anyway (until you do, but that's usually due to poor planning).

This particular item was designed for the early days when collecting matter was somewhat more difficult. Right now there's almost always enough unless you're using lots of cannons and explosives, so I guess it's doing its job pretty well

(Regarding a specific "recycle this" command, there's no way to efficiently introduce more--and more specific--input paradigms into the UI, and no need for anything widely applicable across many parts, so I'll be avoiding things like that.)

[Draco18s]

Could give it a more intelligent trigger, such as items below 25% remaining integrity.

[Kyzrati]

True, but as it is now the amount of matter your receive is based on the remaining integrity, so recycling such damaged parts is not even worth it. It was meant primarily as a way to convert parts left over from combat, those you don't need, to matter in order to supplement raw matter salvage.

A number of other mechanics and calculations are also based on the tie between matter value and integrity, so I'd rather leave this as a fluff part, or possible make it useful by changing its behavior entirely as described earlier. I think matter recovery would be more useful, yeah? (Not exactly realistic, but whatever I'll think of something to do here )

[Adraius]

Does it make sense that mass regained is tied to remaining integrity?  I mean, parts remain 100% functional until integrity reaches 0%, so I see integrity as a part's resilience when taking minor/moderate battle damage - anything that literally blasts sections of a part off would likely render the part immediately nonfunctional. =P

If this was a smallish, lightish part, I could see it being used on sneaky/stealthy builds as an alternate way of acquiring mass, instead of raising threat by killing excavators.  But that's a rare case where I'd actually want it to deconstruct full-integrity parts... normally I'd suggest a 25% threshold or something. =/

I dunno, maybe this part should just stay in as a 'fluff item' until someone comes with a compelling total rework, because it's definitely not useful at the moment.

[Star Weaver]

Maybe allowing it to salvage damaged parts that you're standing on would make more sense. I mean, you'd still have the possibility of losing stuff you want cause you forgot to turn it off, but you wouldn't have it eating through your bags. It would also be more useful in the situation of salvaging parts you don't need after a battle.

Also it looks kind of like a device that should be picking things up off the floor.

[Kyzrati]

That's a very interesting idea (I like it!), and something that players would actually use, if we changed its behavior to be much faster. At the moment it takes a good bit of time to recycle an item, and you wouldn't want to be sitting around a battlefield for at least a few hundred turns to collect matter.

Might be too powerful and other tweaks would be necessary, but this is something to consider. (I don't see a whole lot of room for accidental recycling, since I imagine players would just keep this in inventory and pull it out only after a battle which doesn't result in enough raw matter.)

This almost replaces the need to have Recycling Units (the machine) at all, but those are going to get an overhaul anyway and become something slightly different and much more useful.

[Draco18s]

Well, if it grabbed something off the floor (which you'd have to stand on and wait a turn or two, so you had the option of picking it up) and sort of "held" it in an internal inventory space (hey, that's why it takes two slots!) and munched on it over time, that could work.

Less "are you going to eat that? Om nom nom nom." and more like a wood chipper.

[Kyzrati]

That's a very nice idea, too. We may yet work this into a useful part

I'd be inclined to also give it the "extra matter retrieval on part loss" feature as well.

[Star Weaver]

Hmm, I was just thinking about Recycling Terminals ... part of the reason they might be useless is that the only people who really want to scrounge for matter are heavy combat builds, but the recycling stations typically take very large amounts of hacking to use reliably (I'm presuming, the percentages are always crap for me).

I know you have a plan in motion for them so not thinking too hard about it.

Though what happens when they reach their matter limits presently? I'm guessing it just gets deleted effectively, but it seems that would be a good job for a new subtype of hauler bot to actually come and take the matter and take it somewhere... maybe those matter storage machines that never drop matter when you blow them up?

[Kyzrati]

I know you have a plan in motion for them so not thinking too hard about it.

Yep, they'll be changing significantly, in ways that will make them potentially useful to any kind of build.

Though what happens when they reach their matter limits presently? I'm guessing it just gets deleted effectively, but it seems that would be a good job for a new subtype of hauler bot to actually come and take the matter and take it somewhere... maybe those matter storage machines that never drop matter when you blow them up?

Matter-related machines dropping matter is something to consider. I'll have to look at their distribution (mostly low/mid floors, I believe), because even as is there are it may be necessary to drop overall matter rewards considering how it's not too hard to accumulate lots of it now.

Right now when a Recycling Unit reaches its matter limit it simply transfers it away into an unseen central system it's connected to. If you're present when that happens you'll see the message. This might be removed as part of the behavior changes I'll be making, though.

[Star Weaver]

Matter has seemed a little binary to me. It's either "I have enough and the rewards are bountiful" or "I have 9 and I need to attach a reactor and nothing's in sight" >.>

OTOH I trend towards energy weapons so I tend not to see "not enough matter to fire your gun" messages too often.

[Kyzrati]

Yeah, matter becomes a more common issue if you use ballistic cannons or any type of AoE weapon. Not so big an issue as it used to be, but as is it mostly exists to prevent unbridled use of powerful weapons.

Not needing to worry much about matter is an intended benefit of relying on energy weapons. Of course, in that case it can also be easier to forget about it until suddenly you need more

[Kyzrati]

Just added completely new mechanics for Field Recycling Units, coming in Alpha 6. They're actually going to be useful now

It's based on the idea from Draco18s:

Well, if it grabbed something off the floor (which you'd have to stand on and wait a turn or two, so you had the option of picking it up) and sort of "held" it in an internal inventory space (hey, that's why it takes two slots!) and munched on it over time, that could work.

Less "are you going to eat that? Om nom nom nom." and more like a wood chipper.

Plus other benefits like only occupying a single slot--though mass will increase and it will come with upkeep.

[Draco18s]

Woo hoo!