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[zxc]

Edit: Tables are neater on the Wiki http://gridsagegames.com/wiki/User:Zxc

Just making a table for my own reference. Values are damage modifiers, not actual resistances. This means that positive values mean a robot is vulnerable to that damage type, and negative values means it is resistant to it.

Robot	Ki	Th	Ex	Em	Im	Sl	Pi
Hauler				+25%
Brawler					-25%	-25%
Carrier	-50%			+25%	-25%	-25%	-25%
Grunt	+25%			+25%
Hunter	-25%			+25%
Protector		-25%
Worker				+25%
Duelist						-25%	-25%
Mechanic
Operator				+50%		+25%
Programmer	+25%			-50%
Recycler				+25%
Swarmer			+25%
Tunneler				+25%
Builder				+25%
Watcher				+100%
Sentry			-50%		-25%

Interesting tidbits from looking at all this: a lot of robots, especially civilian robots, have vulnerabilities to electromagnetic. Watchers take double damage from it. Programmers are resistant to electromagnetic however, and they are one of the most important enemies, alongside hunters. But hunters are vulnerable to Em and resistant to kinetic. Thermal seems pretty neutral / reliable, with few resistances or vulnerabilities.

[Adraius]

Unless some of my very early experiences led me wrong, Programmers are harder to kill with EM weapons, and thus negative values represent resistances, not vulnerabilities.  I haven't tried using EM weapons on Programmers for ages though, for obvious reasons... so it's conceivable I've actually got it backwards... that would suck.  Seconding zxc's request for clarification!

EDIT: quick thing for Kyzrati - you may want to add Data Loss(database) to the list of fixes, or otherwise prepare for the exclamations of confusion if you don't!

[Kyzrati]

Adraius beat me to it: Actually, the numbers are reversed

+100% for Watchers means they take double damage from it!

The stat is called "resistance" out of tradition, but the numbers more appropriately refer to "damage modifiers," hence the coloring difference in the stats (red is always bad, green is always good, according to all value coloring schemes). You'll notice the same usage in your own status screen, when you have resistances from special armor/utilities, for example.

(This mechanic was "borrowed" from UFO Defense, as that's where Cogmind's source originated, and I rather liked that form of representation.)

EDIT: quick thing for Kyzrati - you may want to add Data Loss(database) to the list of fixes, or otherwise prepare for the exclamations of confusion if you don't!

Oh whoops I left that off the public version of the changelog. Too many quick changes that day when we were discussing all that stuff!

[zxc]

Wow! Ok! I had no doubt that positive numbers were resistances since the items you can wear give positive number resistances, and watchers being immune to EM seemed more likely to me than double damage.

Red being bad and green being good is all fine, but bad for who, the robot or the Cogmind? This is why I couldn't tell.

The wording as 'resistances' I think makes this meaning highly non-intuitive.

[Kyzrati]

With Watchers I wanted to have an easy way to take them out (generally with EM blasts), and reasoned that they have a lot of sensitive equipment but are really light on armor, so EM should be the preferred way to deal with them.

Using EM against Programmers, on the other hand, is a really bad idea (EM weapons do less damage to begin with, even before modifiers...).

[Adraius]

Using EM against Programmers, on the other hand, is a really bad idea (EM weapons do less damage to begin with, even before modifiers...).

Yep, and if you're fighting lots of Programmers, good luck fending them off with their dropped EM weapons!  I call this Programmer Poisoning, and it sucks. >.<

[Kyzrati]

Using EM against Programmers, on the other hand, is a really bad idea (EM weapons do less damage to begin with, even before modifiers...).

Yep, and if you're fighting lots of Programmers, good luck fending them off with their dropped EM weapons!  I call this Programmer Poisoning, and it sucks. >.<

Nice term you've coined there, and that is very much by design . However, this effect won't be quite so deadly in 3c now that Programmer frequencies are more tightly controlled.

[Adraius]

Looking at the resistances all in one place, EM actually has a bonus against a large set of enemies, enough to offset its slight lack of damage and then some, but on closer examination a lot of those are non-combat bots, and it's failing is that it doesn't get a bonus against a few key types: Brawlers (which are essential to kill before they knock all your combat processors off), Swarmers, and Sentries, along with their nasty penalty against Programmers.  I already avoid EM weapons as much as possible, and I don't see that changing.

Other than EM's oddities, the rest is really very straightforward.  Thermal is fair everywhere, kinetic just means you double definitely won't be one-shotting Carriers and Hunters will be a bit tougher even when you do hit, but kinetic weapons will help you against Grunts and Programmers - I'll take that trade-off!

Thanks again for compiling these all in one place, zxc.

[Kyzrati]

I already avoid EM weapons as much as possible, and I don't see that changing.

Some players swear by them, and for good reason; all depends on your personal strategy!

EM is capable of some awesome stuff, but I'm glad you have your own opinion, since that perhaps alleviates my concerns that it's OP

kinetic just means you double definitely won't be one-shotting Carriers

Don't forget that kinetic weapons are the most likely to achieve a critical hit, which destroys a robot instantly on hitting a core. (But yeah Carriers are not really meant to be taken out.)

[zxc]

Do those items with + chance to damage the core mean you can increase your chance to crit the core? Because stacking +crit and +core chance would be fun as.

[zxc]

I am putting all this into tables on the wiki since it's easier to read and the wiki needs content anyway.

On http://gridsagegames.com/wiki/User:Zxc for now, till it's presentable.

I want to colour in backgrounds for positive and negative resists. How can I do that?

[Kyzrati]

Do those items with + chance to damage the core mean you can increase your chance to crit the core? Because stacking +crit and +core chance would be fun as.

It absolutely does mean that. Go for it

I am putting all this into tables on the wiki since it's easier to read and the wiki needs content anyway.

On http://gridsagegames.com/wiki/User:Zxc for now, till it's presentable.

I want to colour in backgrounds for positive and negative resists. How can I do that?

Hm, I don't have a clue off the top of my head (I'm not all that knowledgeable when it comes to wiki editing). Phssthpok is our resident wiki guru, but I don't think he'll read this thread. He might respond in his thread.

[jimmijamjams]

I've only just found your table through the Tournament thread.  Mind.  Blown.  I knew a few of the basic stats, but this will change my gameplay completely!  Cheers for putting it together

[zxc]

I've only just found your table through the Tournament thread.  Mind.  Blown.  I knew a few of the basic stats, but this will change my gameplay completely!  Cheers for putting it together

The data was already floating around on the wiki. All I did was put it in a table. But I'm glad it helped.

[jimmijamjams]

I really need to have a look at that wiki!  I keep putting it off so as not to spoil too much for myself.  I know it doesn't win games, but I love to access the lore and mess around a bit.  One day I'll knuckle down and escape