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[Sylverone]

While I haven't played either in some time, I recall that both DCSS and Incursion handled running pretty well. Rather than just running until hitting a wall or other obstruction (or spotting hostiles/taking damage), it is nice when a run command stops upon reaching a corner (if running next to wall). In one of those two games or both, running down a single-tile hallway will actually have your character automatically turn the corners and everything until reaching an open space or branch. However, Cogmind has fairly short hallways of that kind, so unless a branch adds winding halls, that latter feature would be overkill.

[Kyzrati]

I would find such a feature extremely annoying given Cogmind's map layouts.

Since the game automatically stops when there is danger in sight, walking an extra step or two doesn't really have much of a drawback. Since pressing any key will stop a run, when I use run (and I do a lot!) I just prepare for when the run hits where I want to turn and press a new movement key, either a movement key to full stop and take in the surroundings, or a new run command to simply start running in a new direction.

I could add it as an option, but you'll end up being stopped quite a lot--some might say that this feature would also want to take into account doors as well.

I did once consider using a system somewhat like that in TGGW, in which the game detects a corridor orientation and keeps running until the edge...

Would anyone else find this feature useful? Due to the map layouts it might require a good bit of time to implement--not sure it's worth it.

[biomatter]

Keyboard user reporting in - wouldn't use it lol.

[CormacMccarthy91]

Yea I only use keyboard as well, every move counts in this game so having the cog move multiple spaces rapidly ends up poorly for me most of the time.

[Sylverone]

I did once consider using a system somewhat like that in TGGW, in which the game detects a corridor orientation and keeps running until the edge...

Would anyone else find this feature useful? Due to the map layouts it might require a good bit of time to implement--not sure it's worth it.

That is one of the things I was thinking of. However, if it isn't a popular idea and would take a lot of effort I wouldn't say it's worth it.

[Supernovadx]

I've tried this game on a laptop and on a desktop, and honestly even the laptop movement in my opinion is not much of a drawback. Plus pretty much any auto movement for me is kind of a death sentence. Like Kyzrati said every movement is critical which is why I stopped using the mouse movement right after I started.

[Kyzrati]

every movement is critical which is why I stopped using the mouse movement right after I started.

With Alpha 1b it should be greatly improved now that the adjacent move cell is highlighted during combat. I can see how one might still be prone to mistakes if for example there's a hostile out of sight and you click too far and end up in the wrong position when they arrive.

[Sylverone]

Since you mentioned using "r" a lot I've started using it more, and you're right of course - it works quite well. If you want to stop your run without wasting a turn or running into anything, the easiest way seems to be to just press "r" again (although any non-action key could work, I presume), although for some reason that doesn't always seem to stop it - I'm not sure if it's due to my keyboard or what yet.

So yeah, it's definitely fine for now in my eyes. The planned feature to add a confirm to bodyslams will improve it further and cover most cases of possible accidents I would think. *Thumb up.* 

EDIT: Okay the reason using "r" to stop running doesn't work sometimes is because I press it too briefly; because it works as a held key to enable running, you have to hold it for a tiny moment for it to activate. It is still most convenient since your finger is already on it.

[Supernovadx]

I can see how one might still be prone to mistakes if for example there's a hostile out of sight and you click too far and end up in the wrong position when they arrive.

Exactly, I still use mouse movement occasionally when moving to doors and things along those lines, but I'm clicking much more often because instead of just picking a path I click on corners and specific spots so I don't end up dead.

That being said I mostly stick to keyboard now because I can check whats going on while the turns are happening and I have the chance to change my direction if I decide half way through that the path is too sketchy.

[Sylverone]

I started out going hybrid: keypad for movement but mouse for inventory, examining, etc. Now I've transitioned to full keyboard.

[Sylverone]

Okay, further note on pressing "r" to cancel running: Apparently it does indeed only work part of the time - the rest of the time, Cogmind stops only as long as you hold "r", then resumes running when you release it. The odd thing is that if you press "r" again during that same run (before hitting an obstacle), it will pause again and resume once you release the button. The rest of the time holding "r" for a split second stops the run; that's most of the time.

[Kyzrati]

Okay, further note on pressing "r" to cancel running: Apparently it does indeed only work part of the time - the rest of the time, Cogmind stops only as long as you hold "r", then resumes running when you release it. The odd thing is that if you press "r" again during that same run (before hitting an obstacle), it will pause again and resume once you release the button. The rest of the time holding "r" for a split second stops the run; that's most of the time.

Hm, that's starting to sound like a bug. I always use Shift to run (since I use numpad movement) and haven't encountered any problem, but letter keys are treated differently so this is probably something I need to look into now. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Sylverone]

I've been using r+numpad.

[Kyzrati]

Ah okay, I assumed anyone using 'r' was in combination with hjkl, as it was only added for that mode (which can't use Shift-mods). Either way, the issue must stem from the 'r' key being repeatable while Shift is purely a constant "is it currently depressed" check.

[zxc]

As a DCSS player and keyboard mode user in Cogmind, I was going to suggest this feature myself. My ideal would be if run-move occurred instantly (or the delay adjustable) and stopped on corners, doors, and new features of interest.

Using run-move and then hitting a movement key precisely when you want to stop doesn't appeal to me as it introduces a real-time aspect to a turn-based game. As such I don't use run-move.

[Kyzrati]

My ideal would be if run-move occurred instantly (or the delay adjustable)

It does occur instantly on command. Could you explain further what you mean by this part? There is no delay I'm aware of.

and stopped on corners, doors, and new features of interest.

I could add this later as an optional feature. I'd most likely have it off by default, but this one's important enough that it would go directly into the options menu.

Using run-move and then hitting a movement key precisely when you want to stop doesn't appeal to me as it introduces a real-time aspect to a turn-based game. As such I don't use run-move.

The real-time aspect is a good point.

For Alpha 2 I've already fixed the 'r' issue so that pressing it again stops a run.

[zxc]

It does occur instantly on command. Could you explain further what you mean by this part? There is no delay I'm aware of.

What I mean here is that you would immediately appear where your run-move would stop. As in DCSS, where you might run-move down a corridor and instantly arrive at the other end.

Also, the first key I tried to stop the run was Escape, which had no effect. I didn't realise hitting 'r' would stop it, but perhaps Escape could be added as well, or maybe even hitting any key during the run to cancel the run.

[Kyzrati]

Oh, now I see what you mean. I never did more with DCSS ASCII than try it out; I've always played tiles and used the mouse for long-distance movement.

Instant arrival is an interesting notion... TGGW has that as well. It wouldn't be too difficult to add, assuming a very robust system for stopping a run when necessary. I've added this to the medium-term list of things to look at, along with the expanded auto-stop feature.

And Escape should cancel a run, yep, as should Spacebar (which currently does, but also has the side-effect of showing your last UI message at the same time). Right now a lot of keys will stop a run, but they have side-effects as well since they still cause their normal result even though you were running. Not exactly consistent. I'd probably prefer to have players stick to ESC/Spacebar/r, which makes entering other commands in the middle of moving possible. We'll at least start with those.

[zxc]

Actually the instant shift-move works on DCSS tiles and webtiles too. Delays like autoexplore and interlevel travel are customisable - generally the experienced players use no delay so that there is no downtime between action at all. Absolutely necessary for stuff like real-time speedruns, but it's also just nicer at a certain point.

[Kyzrati]

True, I mentioned tiles because I use the mouse for movement, as indicated. I prefer delay in my own running because it allows me to gradually internalize the environment in a way that's slightly more natural to me. But I'm here to accommodate everyone I can!

[Sylverone]

I'm seeing a potential trend here: you can have the options menu, and then add the "micro-tuning" on to that. And then after much progress you will finally be able to add the "options options".

Seriously, though, I like the idea. "running delay" or somesuch could be an option, with zero being instant.

[Kyzrati]

I'm trying to keep down the number of options since we're closing on 52, which is the limit for the current format/UI I've chosen. I'll have to expand it if we hit that, so anything only useful for a small minority of players I'm currently putting in the cfg file to require manual editing.

Run delay sounds like the perfect option to have. Right now I think it's set at 50ms, but combining that with a zero-option for instant should work well. that's simple to add, though I can't do it until there's a proper auto-stop system in place (beyond the current one which only stops for danger).