Propulsion Rebalancing: Experimental / Alpha 6 Feature Preview

[Kyzrati]

Edit: As of Alpha 6, all of these changes have been added to the game. This thread has been locked and further discussion can be continued in the Alpha 6 Discussion thread, if necessary.

For the end of the year let's try something a little different!

As per our original discussion (there are 3-4 other threads that touched upon it as well), I've rebalanced all the propulsion, done a little testing, and I think overall the new state of things is a big improvement. Overall the mechanics are a bit simpler, there shouldn't be any more oddities, and some strategies might change.

So rather than wait for Alpha 6, if you'd like to try out the new and improved propulsion mechanics you can do this now by modifying your copy of Alpha 5c!

All you need to do is download this experimental patch (3 MB) and copy the contents over your current installation.

Here's the experimental build changelog compared to Alpha 5c:

* MOD: Many propulsion stat values reworked!
* MOD: Simplified propulsion mechanics and all known calculation oddities at very high speeds and overweight situations ironed out
* MOD: Ground-based propulsion (wheels/legs/treads) no longer slows with each additional module
* MOD: Airborne propulsion (hover/flight) no longer has a per-part limit on max speed (is type-based)
* MOD: As a side effect of propulsion changes, most hostiles slightly slower
* MOD: Wheels have an advantage now, but still suffer from low integrity
* MOD: Backup Propulsion I/III/VII nerfed
* MOD: Tread recoil dampening effect reduced to 1 per active tread slot
* FIX: Crash when an assimilated Spotter explored to the edge of the known map [zill]

Any scores uploaded from this build won't go to the high scores list, but I'll have the record sheets for reference if need be. Saves are not compatible. Seeds are. Also, the game will tell you your version is wrong/old, but you can just ignore that.

The idea is that you'll now have to work for speed (no low-propulsion slot fast movers), and at the same time won't be penalized much for having a heavy ground-based build. With heavier/combat builds the overweight threshold is a lot more meaningful than it was because there is no speed penalty until you pass it! Overall heavy Cogminds will be moving faster now, and almost all other robots in the world got a little slower (among them the biggest change was your most common foe, Grunts, which are now 20% slower!).

Any feedback is appreciated!

[zxc]

I like the sound of this!

[Kyzrati]

I knew you would, since it includes one of your primary suggestions . My guess is that this will once again make the game somewhat easier, especially for more experienced players. And even inexperienced players will benefit because wheels no longer totally suck (and overall everything's a little less complicated without sacrificing too much of the system's original flexibility).

[Happylisk]

I am 100% in favor of all of this.  Gimme treads til I'm dead.

[Decker]

I conducted a scientific experiment to test the balance: goof around and see what happens. I went looking for trouble, found it, but my luck held, so I covered a lot of ground on different propulsion types.

My build was 2 power sources, 3 storage units, 2 heat sinks, 2 extra utilities for misc goodies, and 4 weapons. You know what the rest is.

I wanted to reconsider the matter of armor and force fields in light of the propulsion changes. Joke on me: I found in total one armor and 1 force field across Research and Access. My weapon loadout didn't leave any armor from enemy bots. Instead I used different processors, and just wore things like energy wells when I had nothing better.

I used wheels in Material. They are ubiquitous by destroying workers, and provide a speed between 80 and 100. There's no food clock on Materials so it's not really useful, but it's a viable fallback. Some wheels lift as much as 16. I also used them to patch holes throughout the game. They're harder to mine at higher levels as they tend to get destroyed. They have high coverage and low integrity (centrium wheels only have 100 integrity), so they serve to absorb 2-3 hits and reduce the alert level.

I found a bunch of Improved VTOL in Storage, exited through Recycling and sailed to the second floor of Research on this propulsion. That's exceptional. Flight in general is not really doable for a combat bot, due to the low support and high overweight penalty. Improved VTOL is two notches above the rest, though.

I wanted to go on legs when I lost my VTOLs but I had to use what I found, which is a pack of hover units I got from fallen programmers. Those things were nerfed (10 speed slower), but my takeaway is that they are still useful to have around. Four of them lifts a midweight combat bot on speed 85. It's significantly better than the competition. Plus, they still allow me to survive wastes (barely), although I can feel there is a sinister mind conniving to finally nail me in those so-called traps.

I came very close to dying when I entered a garrison on Access. I had to disperse a crowd of pests and terminators with liberal use of a Ragnarok launcher at point blank. That left me entirely without propulsion. I crawled to leftover flight units and legs, and eventually got back on 8 legs. No venom and fangs, though.

5-6 legs have no problem lifting a midweight bot. Regular legs have speed 120, biometal have speed 110, so my effective speed was somewhere between those two values. That makes retreating under fire a viable but costly option. The impact on the food clock is tolerable but not ideal; it's better to use hover units if possible.

What about treads? Well, they still make good armor. Forget about mobility with those things. At speed 160, they are dog slow. The recoil bonus is spot on.

I spent over 4000 turns on Access, with 3388 influence at the end. I couldn't find the exit. I went on legs exclusively, and wore treads for armor. I died on my feet due to core attrition, with most of my parts. Two targeting computers make a difference.

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 5c +EXPERIMENTAL

Name: Decker

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (             4000
Robots Destroyed (376)     1880
Value Destroyed (18468)    18468
Prototype IDs (35)         700
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (200)                200
              TOTAL SCORE: 25248

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             0/1600
Matter                     130/300
Energy                     230/230
System Corruption          25%
Temperature                Cool (15)
Location                   -1/Access

Parts
-------
Power (2)
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (12)
  Improved Anti-Grav System
  Biometal Leg
  Heavy Treads
  Heavy Treads
  Biometal Leg
  Compact Heavy Treads
  Biometal Leg
  Heavy Treads
  Flexi-carbon Leg
Utility (7)
  Long-range Terrain Scanner
  Large Storage Unit
  Medium Storage Unit
  Medium Storage Unit
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
Weapon (4)
  Phase Gun
  Heavy Laser
  Quantum Rifle
  Point Singularity Launcher

Inventory
-----------
Quantum Reactor
Heavy Laser
Gamma Rifle
Heavy Neutron Cannon
Railgun
Graviton Cannon
Advanced Matter Compressor
Advanced Heat Sink
Improved Deep Network Scanner
Improved Deep Network Scanner
Railgun

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Reinforced Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
  Medium Treads
  Compact Heavy Treads
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Medium Treads
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
  High-density Centrium Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
Utility
  Medium Storage Unit
  Medium Storage Unit
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Large Storage Unit
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Experimental Core Analyzer
Weapon
  Graviton Cannon
  Gamma Rifle
  Nova Cannon
  Point Singularity Launcher
[Rating: 163]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Light Quantum Reactor
  Engine                   Heavy Ion Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion                 Myomer Leg
  Treads                   Improved Treads
  Wheel                    Wheel
  Leg                      Myomer Leg
  Hover Unit               Improved Anti-Grav System
  Flight Unit              Improved VTOL Module
Utility                    Advanced Heat Sink
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Targeting Computer
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
Weapon                     Mini Assault Cannon
  Energy Gun               Phase Gun
  Energy Cannon            Nova Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Enhanced Autogun
  Ballistic Cannon         Mini Assault Cannon
  Launcher                 Ragnarok Missile Launcher

Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown            200
  Entered Garrisons        200
Classes Destroyed          19
  Worker                   25
  Builder                  20
  Tunneler                 4
  Hauler                   23
  Recycler                 28
  Mechanic                 2
  Operator                 6
  Drone                    1
  Watcher                  7
  Swarmer                  41
  Saboteur                 3
  Grunt                    113
  Brawler                  10
  Duelist                  10
  Protector                4
  Sentry                   24
  Hunter                   11
  Programmer               41
  Behemoth                 3
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           12
  Combat Bots Only         10
Matter Collected           13441
  Salvage Created          16435
Parts Attached             507
  Power                    45
  Propulsion               164
  Utility                  121
  Weapon                   177
Parts Lost                 167
  Power                    17
  Propulsion               64
  Utility                  28
  Weapon                   58
Average Slot Usage (%)     91
  Naked Turns              1
Spaces Moved               6553
  Fastest Speed (%)        322
  Average Speed (%)        108
  Slowest Speed (%)        5
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           0
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             139
  Greatest Overweight (x)  40
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          28
  Most Items Carried       28
  Average Items Carried    18
Core Damage Taken          2532
Average Core Remaining (%) 83
  Depth 10 Exit            51
  Depth 9 Exit             79
  Depth 8 Exit             83
  Depth 6 Exit             100
  Depth 5 Exit             91
  Depth 4 Exit             98
  Depth 3 Exit             100
  Depth 2 Exit             63
Volleys Fired              742
  Largest                  4
  Hottest                  400
Shots Fired                2157
  Gun                      1147
  Cannon                   936
  Launcher                 74
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  937
  Thermal                  921
  Explosive                71
  Electromagnetic          228
Shots Hit Robots           1371
  Core Hits                715
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           64161
  Projectiles              40449
  Explosions               23712
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  0
  Kinetic                  20380
  Thermal                  16371
  Explosive                22985
  Electromagnetic          4425
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      1554
  Shots                    23
  Rammed                   0
Highest Temperature        534
  Average Temperature      92
  Shutdowns                8
  Energy Bleed             10
  Interference             15
  Matter Decay             1
  Short Circuit            2
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         25
  Average Corruption       12
  Message Errors           42
  Parts Rejected           18
  Data loss (map)          41
  Data loss (database)     25
  Misfires                 11
  Misdirections            26
  Targeting Errors         172
  Weapon Failures          29
  Depth 2 End              22
Haulers Intercepted        23
Robots Corrupted           3
Robots Melted              1
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          25
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            1
  Indirectly               1
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        23
  Terminals                22
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          1
Machines Hacked            23
  Terminals                22
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          1
Total Hacks                72
  Successful               26
  Failed                   46
  Catastrophic             17
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   38
  Unauthorized             14
  Terminals                71
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          1
Terminal Hacks             20
  Record                   0
  Part Schematic           0
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        2
  Open Door                4
  Level Access Points      3
  Branch Access Points     2
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           1
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Garrison Index           0
  Alert Level              2
  Unreport Threat          6
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         35
  Full Trace Events        3
  Feedback Events          1
  Feedback Corruption      1
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Garrisons Disabled         2
Garrisons Compromised      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   0
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             10
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              3
Hacks Repelled             1
Total Allies               22
  Largest Group            16
  Highest-Rated Group      213
  Highest-Rated Ally       52
Total Orders               1
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     1
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  0
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               166
  Total Damage             2815
  Kills                    29
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             3388
  Average Influence        847
  Final Influence          3388
Maximum Alert Level        5
  Low Security (%)         26
  Level 1                  16
  Level 2                  16
  Level 3                  15
  Level 4                  5
  Level 5                  18
Squads Dispatched          58
  Investigation            10
  Extermination            15
  Reinforcement            9
  Assault                  19
  Garrison                 5
Exploration Rate (%)       17
  Regions Visited          14
Garrisons Visited          1
  Relays Disabled          1
  Generators Disabled      1
Turns Passed               10988
  Depth 11                 62
  Depth 10                 711
  Depth 9                  982
  Depth 8                  1729
  Depth 6                  276
  Depth 5                  566
  Depth 4                  245
  Depth 3                  152
  Depth 2                  1914
  Depth 1                  4351
  Scrapyard                62
  Materials                1712
  Factory                  1087
  Research                 2066
  Access                   2907
  Storage                  1295
  Recycling                415
  Garrison                 1444

Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Ion Engine
Cold Fusion Reactor
High-density Centrium Leg
Experimental Gravmag System
Improved VTOL Module
Improved Q-Thruster
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy Particle Gun
Heavy Gatling Laser
Heavy Dispersion Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Heavy EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Enhanced Autogun
Mini Assault Cannon
Anti-matter Cannon
Heavy Fusion Cannon
Compact Linear Accelerator
Graviton Cannon
Precision Rocket Launcher
Scatter Rocket Array
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Point Singularity Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Advanced EMP Blaster
Experimental Cooling System
Advanced Matter Compressor
Experimental Terrain Scan Processor
Experimental Thermal Shield
Thermal Defense Suite
EM Disruption Field
Experimental Melee Analysis Suite
Experimental Core Analyzer
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Advanced Overload Regulator

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1451180387
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 218 min
Sessions: 3
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 29
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 66x50


X=9737976619327441688828211111
122151621918888898868894561862
881919855915985464151516119518
588155458699585258619169181845
691659815191966152644418641281
511811261886514151124469561864
888891966855161165495121841616
189258846186191815248696688564
811616918616986568155159898128
888898882652128624659814885896
811985556148654881148656849664
118145585852156511615415529859
655552918541885881118889859551
885156558889185524216896168189
881581885566588189888521885881
888889888881885892911884888881
885881888889881881885881888914
512516459881888886888881811256
145689991114894112521124129144
449146181466641814119188111124
188118616111562586442269644149
516166694129189511185826568819
642145666161111896886116568116
122489

[close]

Overall I think propulsion is balanced. The only thing I would change is to make legs and treads 10 speed faster. They seem to be a little too sluggish currently.

[Kyzrati]

Excellent, thanks for going through that and reporting back. Very good run.

Flight is certainly not viable for prolonged combat--that's the stealth approach; and treads are for less flexible super heavy combat builds since they can support plenty more non-propulsion slots than you're using with your mobile combat setups.

Legs have a slightly slower base speed than they did before, but only because you'd always be even slower than that when (inevitably) using multiple legs, so in practice they've gotten a good bit faster. I'd consider giving them a -10 later on if we need some way to slightly improve Cogmind's mid-range combat mobility, though I think it's probably good enough for now.

Other opinions and experiences welcome

[Sherlockkat]

I didn't do a full on propulsion test but I can make comments on a very specific playstyle with legs(6 prop, 2 power sources, 3 weapons).

I played quite a few runs with the experimental prop build and must say that legs feel super viable without the postive mod/extra stat . I run a cookie-cutter combat build and started most runs by evolving 2 propulsion slots first and going legs. I must say that this supports the early game storage units really well. I was able to support about 3 hcp units and lrg storage unit in the late game with no problems while remaining agile with about 6 propulsion slots.

Another thing that I noticed is that legs being a propulsion option frees up a lot of inventory space. You don't have to hoard legs, as opposed to hover units, as they are ubiquitous. You also don't have to hoard armor as legs soak up a decent amount of damage (can see the wisdom in decker's playstyle). The only other utility that is really essential is heat sink and they are commonplace. As such, my inventory was filled up with weapons and maybe a couple of power sources for back up.

Most of my runs ended in -4 and one of them in -3. I am fairly certain that this playstyle would be even more viable once the hacking/processor changes come in. Having 6 propulsion slots provides a lot of pseudo-armor and increases the life-span of fairly high integrity items like weapons and storage units quite well. But, the low integrity support utilities like targeting comps, analyzers and sensor arrays don't benefit that much without actual armor and get blown off. As such, it is hard to extract value out of the remaining slots as nothing stays there for long and you end up filling it up with low impact utilities. So, I think the hacking and coverage changes should push this build over the top as it supplies the necessary control and combat tools which is required to make this build works.

As it stands, I love the propulsion changes.  . Here is the scoresheet of my last attempt if you want to get a better sense of my playstyle.

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 5c +EXPERIMENTAL

Name: Sherlockkat

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (7)             3500
Robots Destroyed (221)     1105
Value Destroyed (9725)     9725
Prototype IDs (13)         260
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (0)                  0
              TOTAL SCORE: 14590

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             0/1300
Matter                     170/300
Energy                     8/50
System Corruption          23%
Temperature                Cool (0)
Location                   -3/Research

Parts
-------
Power (3)
Propulsion (6)
Utility (
  Stasis Canceller
Weapon (4)

Inventory
-----------
Improved Heat Sink
Deep Network Scanner

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
  Anti-Matter Reactor
  Micro Fission Core
Propulsion
  Myomer Leg
  Flexi-carbon Leg
  Advanced Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
  Myomer Leg
Utility
  Advanced Heat Sink
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  Core Analyzer
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Quantum Shroud
Weapon
  KE Penetrator
  Dispersion Rifle
  Flak Gun
  Railgun
[Rating: 111]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Light Nuclear Core
  Engine                   Improved Ion Engine
  Power Core               Light Nuclear Core
  Reactor                  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion                 Flexi-carbon Leg
  Treads                   Light Treads
  Wheel                    Wheel
  Leg                      Flexi-carbon Leg
Utility                    High-capacity Storage Unit
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Processor                Core Analyzer
  Hackware                 Improved Footprint Analyzer
  Protection               Light Armor Plating
Weapon                     Improved Assault Rifle
  Energy Gun               Heavy EM Shotgun
  Energy Cannon            Heavy Particle Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Improved Assault Rifle
  Ballistic Cannon         Light Cannon
  Launcher                 Missile Launcher

Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown            0
Classes Destroyed          15
  Worker                   15
  Builder                  7
  Tunneler                 2
  Hauler                   2
  Recycler                 17
  Watcher                  3
  Swarmer                  38
  Grunt                    62
  Brawler                  2
  Duelist                  1
  Protector                1
  Sentry                   28
  Hunter                   14
  Programmer               28
  Behemoth                 1
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           8
  Combat Bots Only         7
Matter Collected           6570
  Salvage Created          11861
Parts Attached             254
  Power                    41
  Propulsion               78
  Utility                  55
  Weapon                   80
Parts Lost                 154
  Power                    27
  Propulsion               44
  Utility                  35
  Weapon                   48
Average Slot Usage (%)     93
  Naked Turns              11
Spaces Moved               5827
  Fastest Speed (%)        200
  Average Speed (%)        71
  Slowest Speed (%)        5
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           3
  Cave-ins Triggered       1
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             143
  Greatest Overweight (x)  37
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          38
  Most Items Carried       34
  Average Items Carried    22
Core Damage Taken          2958
Average Core Remaining (%) 66
  Depth 10 Exit            100
  Depth 9 Exit             75
  Depth 8 Exit             23
  Depth 7 Exit             31
  Depth 6 Exit             74
  Depth 5 Exit             94
  Depth 4 Exit             67
Volleys Fired              676
  Largest                  4
  Hottest                  376
Shots Fired                1651
  Gun                      1402
  Cannon                   226
  Launcher                 23
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  1117
  Thermal                  300
  Explosive                23
  Electromagnetic          211
Shots Hit Robots           1105
  Core Hits                545
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           25483
  Projectiles              22978
  Explosions               2464
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  41
  Kinetic                  15401
  Thermal                  5820
  Explosive                1960
  Electromagnetic          2261
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      297
  Shots                    7
  Rammed                   3
Highest Temperature        470
  Average Temperature      89
  Shutdowns                4
  Energy Bleed             2
  Interference             10
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            1
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           1
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         23
  Average Corruption       4
  Message Errors           41
  Parts Rejected           15
  Data loss (map)          38
  Data loss (database)     24
  Misfires                 12
  Misdirections            15
  Targeting Errors         58
  Weapon Failures          15
  Depth 8 End              2
  Depth 7 End              5
  Depth 6 End              3
  Depth 5 End              6
  Depth 4 End              11
Haulers Intercepted        2
Robots Corrupted           0
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          14
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        18
  Terminals                17
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          1
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Machines Hacked            18
  Terminals                17
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          1
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Total Hacks                44
  Successful               14
  Failed                   30
  Catastrophic             13
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   25
  Unauthorized             5
  Terminals                42
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          2
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Terminal Hacks             12
  Record                   1
  Part Schematic           0
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           1
  Prototype ID Bank        0
  Open Door                3
  Level Access Points      0
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Garrison Index           0
  Alert Level              1
  Unreport Threat          6
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         18
  Full Trace Events        2
  Feedback Events          0
  Feedback Corruption      0
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Garrisons Disabled         0
Garrisons Compromised      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   0
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       1
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               0
  Largest Group            0
  Highest-Rated Group      0
  Highest-Rated Ally       0
Total Orders               0
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  0
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             670
  Average Influence        190
  Final Influence          423
Maximum Alert Level        2
  Low Security (%)         60
  Level 1                  34
  Level 2                  5
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          44
  Investigation            2
  Extermination            15
  Reinforcement            14
  Assault                  2
  Garrison                 11
Exploration Rate (%)       24
  Regions Visited          10
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Turns Passed               11429
  Depth 11                 45
  Depth 10                 243
  Depth 9                  794
  Depth 8                  2589
  Depth 7                  2868
  Depth 6                  1379
  Depth 5                  917
  Depth 4                  1467
  Depth 3                  1127
  Scrapyard                45
  Materials                1651
  Factory                  6631
  Research                 1127
  Storage                  1975

Prototype IDs
---------------
Advanced Myomer Leg
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy Particle Gun
Improved Spread Laser
Heavy Wave Gun
Heavy EM Shotgun
Improved Lightning Gun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Precision Assault Rifle
Advanced EMP Blaster
Quantum Shroud
Improved Footprint Analyzer

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1451465571
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 95 min
Sessions: 11
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 82
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 0
Font: 12/Terminus
Map View: 83x54


X=9617148295341873248979984983
179233779329321928999227937937
289972779729131279747482143817
121278793789187997777938998793
977793777238729728287719727727
777777777797777777777797787777
777797797777777797777787777797
778497777797777777787797777779
777797777727977939777878733892
972797777787224977797284977777
777797777727778987732732843913
398978433987728797977927147272
221827797887719724397739977727
872188247327777777773773799928
287772999782878889799379723774
727771372797228432177977774318
887247922279792777928782843997
147327728738743341977388749972
372478487948997871222988239399
999747227282347727297728771379
7777728223821382177999887732277

[close]

I am going to be taking a break from playing cogmind for a while in order to work on my thesis. I probably wont' play until mid Feb (maybe lurk around the forums though). I have been having super fun with this game for a while now. Keep up the good work and all the best !!

[Kyzrati]

Thanks for the run, Sherlockkat.

Pretty well-rounded build, and interesting that you immediately start with all that extra propulsion, though I can see how it ensures you a much less risky passage (in the early floors where core integrity is more precious) by standing in as makeshift protection.

I'm mostly a leg Cogmind, and my testing experience was similar to yours. I'm also wondering what kind of take speed winners will have on this.

Man, you guys go crazy on the storage (Really makes me want to get the large inventory management UI in place, but I've had to put that off for now until a decision is made about what to do for a possible condensed UI mode.)

Good luck and see you when you get back!

[Sherlockkat]

Pretty well-rounded build, and interesting that you immediately start with all that extra propulsion, though I can see how it ensures you a much less risky passage (in the early floors where core integrity is more precious) by standing in as makeshift protection.

I don't have much use for any other slots in the early game. Materials isn't threatening enough to invest in weapons. None of the early game utilities are very exciting. I can put the propulsion slots to immediate use and as you pointed out, they soak up good deal of damage. They also enables my hoarding addiction in the early game by increasing weight capacity  .

Man, you guys go crazy on the storage

My current working theory is that "well-rounded builds require larger inventories". For eg, When you have 10 weapon slots and you lose a weapon, that represents a 10% drop in fire power. If you have 3 weapon slots and you lose a weapon, that is a 33% drop. In that case, you need to be really efficient when it comes to replacing parts in order to avoid serious performance deterioration. This calls for a well-stocked inventory. Meanwhile, a cogmind with 10 weapon slots doesn't have to fret about weapon loss that much as its damage output isn't suffering that much. So, it can get away with under investing on storage. I haven't thought this through completely, but it feels right. I dunno...

[zxc]

The problem is that for a single slot, nothing much can compare to the utility of granting another 10 spare parts in your inventory.

[Kyzrati]

That's a good way to put it, both of you.

Maybe all storage should be multi-slot items . Realistically, yes, and it would solve much of the balance issues there as well, though I don't really want to do that because multi-slot is saved for a small subset of parts rather than commonly used ones.

I wonder if under the rebalanced propulsion mechanics in this build, where being overweight is an even clearer threshold than before, if I shouldn't just further increase the mass of larger units disproportionally. I know you argued against this before, zxc. I don't want to completely nerf the ability to carry more, just try to find a better balance.

However, it's hard to gauge because there's also the case that the current situation reflects the way in which many of you prefer to play, carrying large inventories to have spares whenever necessary, even though it's not entirely necessary since limiting yourself to a single storage unit (my strategy) means you can focus on boosting your capabilities with utilities, which allow parts to survive confrontations more frequently, either through superior defense or superior offense.

I also can't say that increased mass would necessarily have a huge impact, because it would just encourage Decker's propulsion focused strategy with which heavier Storage doesn't mean much, and making it heavy enough to matter in that situation would probably put it outside the reach of even regular builds.

Does anyone see a need to fix anything about this?* It might just be a case of preferences.

*Aside from the need for a large inventory management system, which I've mentioned we'll get eventually, though for now we have sorting and the new automated system to help out.

[zxc]

The most obvious nerf to storage to me seems to be the one you proposed one time: removing HCP storage units. This reduces the slot efficiency of storage units but doesn't mess with the balance of the remaining ones.

Storage Rebalancing Ideas Thread?

[Kyzrati]

Storage Rebalancing Ideas Thread?

We already have one!

And that proposal was actually yours . I have had that one listed as a possibility under my notes for this topic ever since you mentioned it, and think it's a rather good one.

That topic in general is one of a couple of "unfinished threads" where I never really felt the conversation came to a satisfactory conclusion, but partially because I wasn't yet in a position to confirm a solution. It's even been sitting in my inbox bookmarked for later attention (in addition to being on my TODO list, where almost everything we talk about here goes). It was another of the "ran out of time for Alpha 5 maybe Alpha 6" things.

[zxc]

I know I've been an advocate of that option but I'm sure I originally took the idea off you somewhere... before that...

[Sherlockkat]

I can get behind removing Hcp Storage units. Another approach might be nerfing their integrity slightly. Storage is so durable that they might as well be a permanent fixture to your core. I might worry a lil bit about putting all my eggs in the storage basket if they are bit more fragile. As it stands, they take quite a bit of pounding.

I personally feel the right way to nerf storage is to actually buff other utilities. So, I am inclined to wait until the hacking changes are in before making up my mind on this. I am really interested in the relation between low coverage of the processors and their life span. If I can get the combat utilities to last for a floor or two in a controlled combat environment, that would be great. This would dramatically improve their value relative to the storage units and we might start ditching them in favor of immediate combat efficiency. As it stands, I don't care what gets blown off as long as I can replace it and combat utils are not easily replaced.

[Kyzrati]

Storage Unit integrity is extremely high compared to other items because it's very annoying to lose them. That combined with their unusually low coverage means they last a long while. So they're intentionally designed to be more or less a permanent fixture, while still not being absolutely permanent so you may have to occasionally deal with loss (but usually not more than once or twice in a good run). Note that unlike other parts, Storage Units are also immune to many negative effects like critical strikes, severing, Saboteur attacks, etc. The loss of Storage for a build/strategy that relies on it can mean the sudden end of a run if it happens too often, so I like it the way it is. (Note that it has gradually evolved to its current state--in early Alpha it was a more "normal" part and was a source of many problems.)

I do believe the changes to processors will have a significant positive impact on their longevity, which is good because increasing their capabilities is not going to happen