Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]

[jimmijamjams]

G'day everyone!

I've been musing about setting this up for a while here and on reddit.  I've always found seed runs a fun way to put a community element into single player games and now that the functionality for seeds is working I think it's time to get something going for Cogmind.

My thoughts on this are as follows:

• Seeds are listed weekly (I may change this depending upon the interest)
• Seeds are based on suggestions by the community (if there are a lot I'll mix them up with some RNG to select them)
• You should only play the seed once
• I'll post the instructions on how to input seeds and post an image of the starting layout of items and the first level after the Scrapyard
• To avoid confusion each seed run will be listed in a new thread
• When posting results attach a copy of your scoresheet (instructions on how to do this will be provided)
• The will be 'Winners' in a variety of different categories (e.g. Highest Score, Most Parts Attached, Slowest Average Speed, Most Melee Kills) and people are free to find the category where they 'win' (e.g. Lowest Score, Highest Time Spent Naked, etc)
• The main thing is to create some conversation around playing the same seed and discuss how people like to play the game

So, drop a reply if you're interested, post some suggestions if you like, and if people are keen I'll set this up.  I'll also post a link to this on the subreddit to pick up people who might miss this post.

jjj

[zxc]

I like the idea. A weekly seed could also be built into the game I imagine.

[jimmijamjams]

I like the idea. A weekly seed could also be built into the game I imagine.

Welcome aboard!

It would be interesting if a weekly seed was set up in-game, but I've always enjoyed the forum interaction doing it the 'old fashioned way'

I'll wait about a day or so to see what interest there is and then start it up.

[zxc]

It's more that I think a built-in weekly seed generator could encourage participation and subsequently interaction on the forum.

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.

[Kyzrati]

Well, I'd certainly join in, and I know at least several others who haven't seen this yet who are interested. Plus I'd advertise it on Twitter and no doubt get at least a few more participants that way.

Recognizing everyone for their interesting play styles and achievements will be fun (like I did with the 7DRL tournament).

I mentioned before that I think seed runs will be even more fun with Alpha 3 due to the addition of extra unchanging seed-based content in the form of Traps. But it doesn't hurt to get the format down now! As is it will mostly be route, map layouts, and items found that help define the run (robots not quite as much since their presence is more dynamic).

About the source of the weekly seed, it could easily be built into the game, though at least for now I think it's fine to do it manually, and somewhat more fun since it doesn't have to be a number

Edit: It should also be made clear that you're only supposed to play the seeded run once, because not everyone might be familiar with that rule.

[Phuket]

You most certainly know I'm down.  Is there a way we could have this set up somewhere more official to make it easier to post rules, seeds, victories and the such? Maybe a separate area of the forums? I don't know what our limitations are but I think it would be a ton of fun and encourage a lot of community interaction! 

[Kyzrati]

You were the first interested player who came to mind, Phuket

On seeing this, especially the suggestion that each run be a separate thread (which does make sense) I was highly considering making a new forum board specifically for things like this. Plus it will be a good place to host the official Alpha tournament.

I'll add it shortly and move this thread.

[jimmijamjams]

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.

Wow! That's impressive!  I've only made it to level -1 once, but it was several weeks after the initial release.

Well, I'd certainly join in, and I know at least several others who haven't seen this yet who are interested. Plus I'd advertise it on Twitter and no doubt get at least a few more participants that way.

Recognizing everyone for their interesting play styles and achievements will be fun (like I did with the 7DRL tournament).

I mentioned before that I think seed runs will be even more fun with Alpha 3 due to the addition of extra unchanging seed-based content in the form of Traps. But it doesn't hurt to get the format down now! As is it will mostly be route, map layouts, and items found that help define the run (robots not quite as much since their presence is more dynamic).

About the source of the weekly seed, it could easily be built into the game, though at least for now I think it's fine to do it manually, and somewhat more fun since it doesn't have to be a number

Good to hear you'll be joining us!  I'll be interested to know how you approach the game.  The 7DRL tournament is what I based some of the ideas for the achievements, I'll make a list of achievements when I post the first thread.  One of the reasons for starting it now is partly to get the format down for when more people are playing.

Edit: It should also be made clear that you're only supposed to play the seeded run once, because not everyone might be familiar with that rule.

I've edited the list to include that people should only play the seed once.

You most certainly know I'm down.  Is there a way we could have this set up somewhere more official to make it easier to post rules, seeds, victories and the such? Maybe a separate area of the forums? I don't know what our limitations are but I think it would be a ton of fun and encourage a lot of community interaction! 

Excellent!  Great to have you on board!

I'm definitely down for a separate area on the forums to avoid cluttering it up and I'm happy for you to PM me or post suggestions here to flesh out what achievements could be included.  High score and level achieved are certainly some of the main ones, but I really like the idea of including some obscure achievements that might be difficult or just dangerous to achieve.  Kyzrati already mentioned the tournament for Cogmind 7DRL, I'll have another look at the site for some inspiration when setting up the first run.

[Kyzrati]

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.

Wow! That's impressive!  I've only made it to level -1 once, but it was several weeks after the initial release.

I must say I was impressed when I read that, too. -1 is no easy feat.

Good to hear you'll be joining us!  I'll be interested to know how you approach the game.

You mean you want to see if you can glean anything about how the game works from what I do, right?

In all seriousness, you guys are already clocking way more real games than I've ever played! I used to be more careful, but I've gotten a lot more gung-ho in my approaches, as you'll probably see. Can depend on what's lying around of course!

I'm a bit rusty right now, though I'll be up for it after I do a couple games of Alpha 2 playtesting (around the corner).

Kyzrati already mentioned the tournament for Cogmind 7DRL, I'll have another look at the site for some inspiration when setting up the first run.

One thing to remember when looking at that list is that the participants did not know what the award categories would be beforehand, so they couldn't specifically aim for one of them. Announcing them in advance will be nice (as is having a recurring/expanding set), though it might be best that they're not something that could easily be gamed, at least not without really interesting results or handicapping the player in some way.

Thinking more along those lines, so-called "conduct" runs might work as an additional event, whether or not combined with a seed.

[jimmijamjams]

You mean you want to see if you can glean anything about how the game works from what I do, right?

Am I so transparent?   I actually think it might be more interesting for you than for us in a way.  Knowing that you're playing the same seed as the less enlightened could be an interesting exercise with unforeseen benefits.  Or you could just be laughing your way to the top of the leaderboard each week

One thing to remember when looking at that list is that the participants did not know what the award categories would be beforehand, so they couldn't specifically aim for one of them. Announcing them in advance will be nice (as is having a recurring/expanding set), though it might be best that they're not something that could easily be gamed, at least not without really interesting results or handicapping the player in some way.

Thinking more along those lines, so-called "conduct" runs might work as an additional event, whether or not combined with a seed.

That's a good point.  Maybe I'll make a pool of secret achievements and use some RNG to select two or three to be revealed at the end of the week.

Hopefully with the seed runs becoming a regular feature people start coming up their own conduct runs.

[zxc]

Brogue has a weekly seed competition http://brogue.createforumhosting.com/brogue-general-discussion-f1.html
DCSS had a weekly sudden death challenge for a time https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=13761
Also the DCSS tournaments http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/

Perhaps we can get some ideas from the above, for the weekly seeds and/or the tournament.

I'd be keen on weekly seeds to be focused on interesting and zanny stories, while the tournaments be more competitive and challenge oriented. I've only been watching two LPers so far and you're both in this thread, which is quite cool I gotta say. Seeded games would be ideal to record and LP I think!

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.

Wow! That's impressive!  I've only made it to level -1 once, but it was several weeks after the initial release.

I must say I was impressed when I read that, too. -1 is no easy feat.

I had been dying on the first 1-3 floors every other game, but then I realised your core is very durable and the 50 delay movespeed while naked is actually fantastic. So I stopped trying to fight things and it turned into a pacifist run. Mining through walls was really cool, but after a while it seemed to stop working.

Morgue

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 1b

Name: zzxc

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (44)      220
Value Destroyed (786)      786
Prototype IDs (7)          35
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (0)                  0
              TOTAL SCORE: 5541

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             0/1600
Matter                     199/300
Energy                     50/50
System Corruption          0%
Temperature                Cool (7)
Location                   -1/Access

Parts
-------
Power (4)
Propulsion (6)
  Q-Thruster
Utility (11)
Weapon (4)

Inventory
-----------
Micro Fission Core
Improved Fusion Compressor
Improved Fusion Compressor

Peak State
------------
Power
  Micro Fission Core
  Light Particle Reactor
  Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Field Propulsion Array
  Field Propulsion Array
  Q-Thruster
  Improved Diametric Drive
Utility
  Enhanced Optical Array
  Improved Terrain Scanner
  Experimental Heat Sink
  Advanced Force Field
  Power Amplifier
  Advanced Deep Network Scanner
  Improved Hacking Suite
  Advanced Hacking Suite
Weapon
  Advanced Datajack
[Rating: 119]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Micro Fission Core
  Engine                   Ion Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion                 Anti-Grav System
  Treads                   Light Treads
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Hover Unit               Anti-Grav System
  Flight Unit              Field Propulsion Array
Utility                    Enhanced Optical Array
  Device                   Improved Terrain Scanner
  Storage                  Large Storage Unit
  Processor                Enhanced Optical Array
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
  Protection               Improved Medium Armor Plating
Weapon                     EM Pulse Gun
  Energy Gun               EM Pulse Gun
  Energy Cannon            Compact Ion Cannon
  Ballistic Cannon         Mass Driver
  Launcher                 Grenade Launcher
  Special Weapon           Mining Laser
  Special Melee Weapon     Advanced Datajack

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          10
  Worker                   6
  Builder                  1
  Tunneler                 5
  Hauler                   2
  Recycler                 1
  Watcher                  3
  Swarmer                  13
  Grunt                    10
  Sentry                   2
  Programmer               1
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           38
  Combat Bots Only         26
Matter Collected           1262
  Salvage Created          1092
Parts Attached             111
  Power                    14
  Propulsion               22
  Utility                  44
  Weapon                   31
Parts Lost                 54
  Power                    7
  Propulsion               10
  Utility                  25
  Weapon                   12
Average Slot Usage (%)     62
  Naked Turns              89
Spaces Moved               5730
  Fastest Speed (%)        500
  Slowest Speed (%)        22
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           6
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             71
  Greatest Overweight (x)  8
  Average Overweight (x)   0
Largest Inventory          12
  Most Items Carried       10
Core Damage Taken          2500
Volleys Fired              125
  Largest                  3
  Hottest                  200
Shots Fired                194
  Gun                      136
  Cannon                   8
  Launcher                 18
  Special                  32
  Kinetic                  0
  Thermal                  93
  Explosive                18
  Electromagnetic          72
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              44
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           2935
  Projectiles              1437
  Explosions               1374
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  124
Highest Temperature        358
  Average Temperature      72
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             1
  Interference             0
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         4
  Message Errors           2
  Parts Rejected           1
  Data loss (map)          2
  Data loss (database)     5
  Misfires                 0
  Misdirections            1
  Targeting Errors         0
  Weapon Failures          0
Haulers Intercepted        2
Robots Corrupted           0
Tactical Retreats          27
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Machine Familiarity        28
  Terminals                19
  Fabricators              2
  Repair Stations          2
  Recycling Units          5
  Scanalyzers              0
Machines Hacked            28
  Terminals                19
  Fabricators              2
  Repair Stations          2
  Recycling Units          5
  Scanalyzers              0
Total Hacks                76
  Successful               34
  Failed                   42
  Catastrophic             14
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   0
  Terminals                52
  Fabricators              8
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          13
  Scanalyzers              0
Terminal Hacks             26
  Record                   1
  Part Schematic           1
  Robot Schematic          1
  Robot Analysis           3
  Prototype ID Bank        0
  Open Door                0
  Level Access Points      1
  Branch Access Points     3
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Alert Level              6
  Unreport Threat          0
  Dispatch Records         3
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         1
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              3
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         3
Hacking Detections         29
  Full Trace Events        11
  Feedback Events          1
  Feedback Corruption      1
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Robot Schematics Acquired  1
  Robots Built             0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   1
  Parts Built              0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             1
  Recycled Matter          22
  Retrieved Matter         22
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       2
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               10
  Combat                   3
  Parse                    1
  Link                     4
  Rebooted                 2
  Overloaded               3
  Assimilated              3
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        15
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               3
  Largest Group            2
  Highest-Rated Group      24
  Highest-Rated Ally       24
Total Orders               0
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  0
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               3
  Total Damage             49
  Kills                    0
Peak Influence             427
  Average Influence        58
Maximum Alert Level        2
  Low Security (%)         90
  Level 1                  8
  Level 2                  1
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          16
  Investigation            11
  Extermination            3
  Reinforcement            2
  Assault                  0
Exploration Rate (%)       23
  Regions Visited          11
Turns Passed               4463
  Depth 11                 137
  Depth 10                 526
  Depth 9                  550
  Depth 8                  103
  Depth 7                  541
  Depth 6                  240
  Depth 5                  750
  Depth 4                  307
  Depth 3                  734
  Depth 2                  168
  Depth 1                  407
  Scrapyard                137
  Materials                1179
  Factory                  1838
  Research                 902
  Access                   407

Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Diametric Drive
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy EM Shotgun
Compact Ion Cannon
Experimental Heat Sink
Precision Energy Filter
Advanced Salvage Targeting Computer
Signal Mirror
Improved Fusion Compressor

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1436601774
Play Time: 196 min
Sessions: 11
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 18
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 0
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50


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161115118118248

[close]

Didn't kill anything past the first couple of floors, and mostly just ran circles around enemies, stealthed around, and hacked terminals to find access points and map reveals. It was a lot like playing a spriggan in DCSS, except more durable. On -1 I explored a ton of the map but eventually got trapped in dead ends too many times and slowly died.

Edit: I just came across biomatter's screenshots of a stealth run. https://www.reddit.com/r/Cogmind/comments/36pksb/post_cool_stuff_youve_found/crg8i7k
My run was just like that, except no fancy biomechanical wings for me. I also agree that a replay mode would be magnificent (Brogue has one ).

[jimmijamjams]

Brogue has a weekly seed competition http://brogue.createforumhosting.com/brogue-general-discussion-f1.html
DCSS had a weekly sudden death challenge for a time https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=13761
Also the DCSS tournaments http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/

Perhaps we can get some ideas from the above, for the weekly seeds and/or the tournament.

Thanks for those links to the Brogue and DCSS seed runs.  I'll use them as a reference when setting up the first seed.

I'd be keen on weekly seeds to be focused on interesting and zanny stories, while the tournaments be more competitive and challenge oriented. I've only been watching two LPers so far and you're both in this thread, which is quite cool I gotta say. Seeded games would be ideal to record and LP I think!

These weekly seeds, while competitive, are certainly not official in capacity.  I too see them as a fun way to explore stories within the game.  I'll leave it to Kyzrati when it comes to all the official stuff (such as the upcoming tournament).

I had been dying on the first 1-3 floors every other game, but then I realised your core is very durable and the 50 delay movespeed while naked is actually fantastic. So I stopped trying to fight things and it turned into a pacifist run. Mining through walls was really cool, but after a while it seemed to stop working.

I'm still learning when it's best to run or fight.  It's not always obvious on the later levels (at least not for me).  I spent most of my time in the 7DRL running away at every opportunity.  You couldn't bump robots out of the way in that version so if you were cornered with no weapons it was game over.  Part of the charm with this game for me is that there is a sweet spot in most runs that require a complete change in tactics.  I've also heard tales from Kyzrati about people finishing the 7DRL by burrowing through the walls all the way to the end! (doesn't work so well these days with the cave-ins implemented)

Didn't kill anything past the first couple of floors, and mostly just ran circles around enemies, stealthed around, and hacked terminals to find access points and map reveals. It was a lot like playing a spriggan in DCSS, except more durable. On -1 I explored a ton of the map but eventually got trapped in dead ends too many times and slowly died.

This is the story of my life on the later levels   I posted a story to this effect here, which details my furthest run (although not my highest score).

Edit: I just came across biomatter's screenshots of a stealth run. https://www.reddit.com/r/Cogmind/comments/36pksb/post_cool_stuff_youve_found/crg8i7k
My run was just like that, except no fancy biomechanical wings for me. I also agree that a replay mode would be magnificent (Brogue has one ).

Hehe, we had a lot of fun sharing items on that thread   Although, biomatter was far more dedicated than me.  It became pretty rare for me to find an item that he hadn't found already and I'm yet to find another Centurium Greatsword after finding it that first time (best. weapon. ever.)

I really like Brogue's replay system.  You can learn a lot from studying other people's play styles, however I'm usually more a fan of bumbling through on my own in most games.  I'll never be a great player, but it's a lot more fun for me

[Kyzrati]

You mean you want to see if you can glean anything about how the game works from what I do, right?

Am I so transparent?   I actually think it might be more interesting for you than for us in a way.  Knowing that you're playing the same seed as the less enlightened could be an interesting exercise with unforeseen benefits.  Or you could just be laughing your way to the top of the leaderboard each week

Well, while I say I'll participate it's in the playing and discussion/stories. I don't think it would be fair for me to actually be listed for anything, since he knows too much! Even though I bet some of you will do better than myself for as long as I'm out of practice, I still have an unfair advantage. I participate "unofficially"

I'd be keen on weekly seeds to be focused on interesting and zanny stories, while the tournaments be more competitive and challenge oriented. I've only been watching two LPers so far and you're both in this thread, which is quite cool I gotta say. Seeded games would be ideal to record and LP I think!

Agreed! I'm sure more participants would be inclined to watch and they could be good points of discussion.

The seed runs are really just friendly competition anyway, not super seriously competitive. At least that's my opinion of them, and yeah the focus would be more on stories and strategies both. By comparison I only plan to have one tournament during alpha, though of course others are welcome to organize what they like aside from seed runs. The planned tournament can somewhat set a precedent for that after you see how it's run, and we'll have badges for participants and winners (as well as seed run participation eventually, once it gets started and I can work that stuff out).

I had been dying on the first 1-3 floors every other game, but then I realised your core is very durable and the 50 delay movespeed while naked is actually fantastic. So I stopped trying to fight things and it turned into a pacifist run. Mining through walls was really cool, but after a while it seemed to stop working.

Later on mining equipment won't work so well on the stronger walls in upper floors; for those areas you generally need a cannon if you want to blow through (then can mine the earth behind fairly easily).

Didn't kill anything past the first couple of floors, and mostly just ran circles around enemies, stealthed around, and hacked terminals to find access points and map reveals. It was a lot like playing a spriggan in DCSS, except more durable. On -1 I explored a ton of the map but eventually got trapped in dead ends too many times and slowly died.

Pacifist runs are the easiest way to get far, but do become increasingly risky on later floors. They earn the lowest score as well.

Hehe, we had a lot of fun sharing items on that thread   Although, biomatter was far more dedicated than me.  It became pretty rare for me to find an item that he hadn't found already and I'm yet to find another Centurium Greatsword after finding it that first time (best. weapon. ever.)

Even better melee blades do exist (although one in particular I'm thinking of can't be found yet ).

[Phuket]

You were the first interested player who came to mind, Phuket

Oh you know I'm so ready for some awesome stories and challenges! Plus it's always a blast to see how people react to the same problems you run into during your seed run. Thanks for setting up the new competition section of the forums! Will be nice for future tournaments and such!

Well, while I say I'll participate it's in the playing and discussion/stories. I don't think it would be fair for me to actually be listed for anything, since he knows too much! Even though I bet some of you will do better than myself for as long as I'm out of practice, I still have an unfair advantage. I participate "unofficially"

I look forward to seeing you participate! Even if you feel it's not for score. I'm sure you know all sorts of secrets!

I may be trying to practice a more silent/fast run. Tons of flight units and engines. I'm going to the moon!