Alpha 5/5b/5c Discussion

[Sherlockkat]

I *just* got through recycling and into factory. 10/10 would visit recycling again for the benefits. Not gonna spoil it . But, it's pretty awesome. Though, based on what happened down there, I feel like there are gonna be some consequences.

Spoiler

I also ran into the other branch in factory during a different run in alpha 5 (not 5b), though didn't spend a lot of time there. Got scared by the ample number of behemoths and sentries and took the first exit.

[close]

Edit: The change in volley timings is quite fun. It seems to have a definite, positive impact on the pacing. I feel more powerful. I had a run in alpha 5 where I got to research -3 before I knew it. The game flowed so well.

Edit 2: Also, the new inventory swapping scheme is quite useful even with its quirks (which zxc already pointed out). It saved me a quite a bit of time.

[Kyzrati]

Though if we take it that far then it means targeting your allies will also appear green. (Or would you want that to be red as a warning?)

Orange/yellow?

I do like the idea of a different color for allies. Yellow (closer to green) sounds good if the LOF is clear and you're aiming at an ally (and still red in either case where LOF to cursor is blocked). Though requiring confirmation is probably still better since attacking allies is not something you generally want to do, anyway.

I often have this problem where if I hold alt to look around the map it acts as though I'm not holding alt, and instead moving my character around. I am pretty much certain this is a problem with my keyboard. It's weird and I only experience this issue in Cogmind, but I don't really use the alt key as a modifier in other games/programs so I haven't noticed it anywhere else. It's a bit dangerous when I try to look around for an escape route and end up moving my character! I have to remember to tap alt once or twice before looking around.

Are you Alt-Tabbing between programs occasionally? This is a known issue with SDL and Windows. When you Alt-Tab, the modifier key is often remembered in the wrong state. It's not something I can even detect, because it's a problem beyond my engine. I've tried several solutions but nothing works perfectly :/

It happens in a other Windows/SDL programs, too, but they don't use the Alt key so much, certainly not as much as Cogmind does... I had to! We needed all the keys

As such, you have to remember to tap the key once or twice after returning to the game to reset it

@Sherlockkat: Good to hear all that! And of course there are consequences . Maybe not big enough, but time will tell... I didn't want to start it out too serious.

Today while testing the new high scores output I see you've already topped the "furthest area reached" chart (I haven't uploaded the data yet--skipping a day due to the new release.)

[zxc]

I often have this problem where if I hold alt to look around the map it acts as though I'm not holding alt, and instead moving my character around. I am pretty much certain this is a problem with my keyboard. It's weird and I only experience this issue in Cogmind, but I don't really use the alt key as a modifier in other games/programs so I haven't noticed it anywhere else. It's a bit dangerous when I try to look around for an escape route and end up moving my character! I have to remember to tap alt once or twice before looking around.

Are you Alt-Tabbing between programs occasionally? This is a known issue with SDL and Windows. When you Alt-Tab, the modifier key is often remembered in the wrong state. It's not something I can even detect, because it's a problem beyond my engine. I've tried several solutions but nothing works perfectly :/

It happens in a other Windows/SDL programs, too, but they don't use the Alt key so much, certainly not as much as Cogmind does... I had to! We needed all the keys

As such, you have to remember to tap the key once or twice after returning to the game to reset it

I alt tab a lot so this sounds like the culprit!

[Kyzrati]

There you go. I Alt-Tab a ton, too, certainly a lot with Cogmind as well while it's under development, so a fix for this would be so awesome, but isn't going to happen :/. Using Alt in a control scheme is always somewhat dangerous since it's also sometimes a system key, but at least Windows doesn't outright co-opt the key in many situations like Linux does. (Since Windows has its own Windows key on keyboard, which is a really nice idea.)

It's probably worth mentioning this quirk in the Advanced UI section of the manual.

[Draco18s]

Alt-tab being a problem is what prompted Acen Games to put little notifiers next to the mouse showing modifier key state. E.g. "alt,ctrl" when both alt and ctrl were detected as being down (nothing if no modified were down).

And that's for games running on Unity! Is a pretty widespread problem.

[Kyzrati]

Yeah, it's really annoying, a problem with Windows API messages. Interesting that Arcen did that! I got around most of the related problems by constantly detecting and storing the states, and resetting them when they look wrong, but unfortunately it doesn't work in all cases... sometimes SDL just doesn't have the right data at hand.

Also very interesting to know that even Unity has this issue.

[Draco18s]

Yeah, they tried the reset trick too and had the same issue: that it didn't always work.

[Kyzrati]

I equipped some treads off the floor. The treads being inspected were the ones the game decided to drop. They have more integrity than the red ones.

Hm, I've gone into to both explicitly test this as well as take a very close look at the small section of code governing this specific part of the feature (integrity comparison for same-type items) and I can't see or repeat any problem with it :/

I've got a test scenario set up with dozens of randomly damaged Lgt. Treads
and no matter what order I try to attach everything, directly from the ground and/or from the inventory, it always replaces the right ones.

[Enno]

today i explored the recycling-branch and just want to say something about.

Spoiler

you can find the access to recycling in the storage and i think in any storage you can find. it is a massive door sealed by a terminal. easy to identify. to unseal you have to hack the terminal (>>\\IAMDERELICT).after that easy hack the door opens and you can see the access.
if you are unsure use your signal interpreter to identify.
the first what i saw was one of our new enemies and they look beautiful with all the signal lights.
but nothing more means the spotters are the only enemy in here and you have many time to explore.
my highlight was my little army of 22  rewired friendly soldiers.
with on board bruiser, hunter, grenadier, defender, swarmer etc. ..
but i went in in -9 and came out in -7 and right before i can look for a terminal to look for
(and eventually purge) my alert-level my little army and me was shot down by heavy resistance.
i think these spotters raise the alert-level in a massive way...
the rewiered robots are not very strong and the weapons you can find are not special and half-dead.
so for me it's not worthwhile to visit the recycling again...the time will show because i newer owned so many friendly robots in this short time, hm.

i found nothing positive for the new cetus-branch yet...
ok sorry enemy-robots wear awesome weapons there.

[close]

...aaand question:

-any infos about the hacking-system in the future?
(how many botnet-trojans for a most effective hack, what parts are needed for if parts needed for, what i have to do that hacking becomes easier and not harder...it seems that the botnet-trojan is total senseless
because i had a botnet of 4 terminals and i was not able to seal a garrisson with security-level 1, a little overview about the system behind or so would be nice)

[Kyzrati]

Hehe, whether or not you want to use the new branches will depend on your strategy. I promise they are all useful in one or more ways! Funny (but not unexpected) that your opinion of Recycling is the direct opposite of the only other player who's reported going there--they said they're definitely going back

Congratulations on reaching some of the new areas; I see on the leaderboard that you were blown away in one of them

About botnet Trojans, the mechanic/benefit is show directly in the game. Examine the infected terminal and click on the botnet listing (or any other active Trojan) for a description of what it does.

Sealing a Garrison is intentionally quite difficult, meant only for really good hackers. (Right now good hackers are tough to build and maintain, though, something that will change later on.)

Anti-garrison tactics

If you really want to take out a Garrison Access point, hit it with a thermal cannon or jam it with Force(Jam).

[close]

[Enno]

About botnet Trojans, the mechanic/benefit is show directly in the game. Examine the infected terminal and click on the botnet listing (or any other active Trojan) for a description of what it does.

haha it seems to be a classic beginners mistake, because i never examined a infacted terminal...and yeah I did not see the forest for the trees cause thats the overview i was looking for. thanks.

[Sherlockkat]

I have been playing a bit more and it feels like Trojan(assimilate) can use a buff. Operators are starting to get annoying. It is difficult to catch up with operators, especially in the early game, without hover/flight units. They are also hard to shoot down and are usually much closer to the terminals than I am. I went to storage a couple of times trying to get into recycling and the damn operators kept locking that terminal down. (On other news, you can't blow your way into recycling...)

I am not sure how you would buff the Trojan (or even whether one is required). It would be kinda cool if Trojan(assimilate) can have a level-wide effect instead of a terminal specific one. It might be overpowered in that case as there would be no reason not to do install that Trojan in some low-level terminal. You can counteract it by making sure only one operator is taken over by a single installation of the Trojan. If you want more, then you have to install more.

In light of the planned hacking overhaul, it probably doesn't make any sense to just buff this Trojan in a vacuum without considering other hacking buffs. Though, I am quite excited for hacking to be a viable playstyle in the upcoming alphas.

[Kyzrati]

What you describe sounds like it's working as intended, really.

Anti-Operator tactics

You shouldn't be able to overtake an Operator unless you're fast, and if you're not fast you have to resort to other options, such as destroying them as quickly as possible, outright destroying the terminal if it's in sight, using various sensors to find the relative locations of Operators and their likely assigned terminal (you know each Operator only has one terminal, right? They can't just operate any old terminal). You can also get lucky some of the time and be between an Operator and their terminal, or get to the terminal first (even when slow, because the Operator happens to be wandering around elsewhere/out of sight).

[close]

So Trojan(Assimilate) is a less important method of dealing with them, just kind of a bonus for those hackers that can pull it off. And good hackers will generally be faster builds, though as you know we've discussed it's currently tough to be a truly good hacker (I was working on this yesterday, actually).

It sucks when an Operator keeps you from accessing a particular important door (rather than just any old terminal), but I like that as is, an Operator nearby being something you have to figure out how to deal with and it could very well mess up your plans. That said, there are a few super important terminals in the game now which will never have Operators.

[Sherlockkat]

Fair enough!! I was just really salty after taking a detour into storage and having the terminal locked down 3 times  . There was very little I could have done about that. I walked out of a door and wham..terminal locked down. It kinda sucks to have your game plan ruined by something like that. But, I am guessing it's there to force you to adapt.

[Kyzrati]

THREE times? Wow, that is bad luck...

secrets

(By the way, there is another chance to get in even after it's locked, too, but I'm not telling.)

[close]

I don't recall ever seeing that terminal locked down on my trips to Storage, but then maybe I didn't notice because it wasn't meaningful before Alpha 5

[zxc]

(By the way, there is another chance to get in even after it's locked, too, but I'm not telling.)

This is more of a clue than you offered me

[Kyzrati]

Oh shoot, is it? I can't remember exactly what I said. I'm trying to be vague and there are so many levels of vagueness... I should keep my mouth shut on some topics

[Draco18s]

Oh shoot, is it? I can't remember exactly what I said. I'm trying to be vague and there are so many levels of vagueness... I should keep my mouth shut on some topics

Sometimes though...you just can't wait to spill the beans.

I have a secret mechanic in a Minecraft mod I made and I had more fun waiting to see if anyone would figure it out (even with full source code available!) The only people that did found it by searching the github repo (it still took a long time before anyone tried), though one of them posted the relevant code section right there in the thread, didn't even use a spoiler tag.

[Kyzrati]

SometimesAlmost every day though...you just can't wait to spill the beans.

The only way to stop myself is to stay focused on adding yet more

I have a secret mechanic in a Minecraft mod I made and I had more fun waiting to see if anyone would figure it out (even with full source code available!) The only people that did found it by searching the github repo (it still took a long time before anyone tried),

That sounds great--it's definitely a lot of fun waiting! Just this evening I was wondering who would be the first to discover the chain of events that leads to this particular item in the Alpha 5 changelog:

* NEW: 1 major plot event

Not that it's super secret--as a plot event it will be discovered before too long, but still... New releases are fun like that

The really secret things are so rare that I generally completely forget about them myself . I have a dedicated secrets.txt file where I collect little things that I'll probably have no recollection of, because if I need to know them one day there's no way I'm going to find them in that pile o' source...

though one of them posted the relevant code section right there in the thread, didn't even use a spoiler tag.

Very grateful that so far everyone around here has been really good about tagging.

[Draco18s]

though one of them posted the relevant code section right there in the thread, didn't even use a spoiler tag.

Very grateful that so far everyone around here has been really good about tagging.

Yeah, I was a little annoyed. Still waiting for someone to figure it out without using the source code. 

It isn't likely, as it requires both chance of timing and less than optimal use of resources. Bit the reward is worth finding.