Alpha 4/4b Discussion

[Draco18s]

I read over the garrison blog posts the other day: neat stuff.
I couldn't quite tell where the templates connected up on the full garrison map, so some helper lines in that image would be nice.

[Kyzrati]

Oh, I didn't draw that in because it's written in the text--"quarters" refers to cutting the map into four equal parts, so being a square that's right down the middle on both axes.

Also see how the template example's top right corner is one-fourth of the large center room.

[Draco18s]

Oh! I see it now. I'd completely misinterpreted something, which made me view the central area piece as the exterior corner.

[Happylisk]

NERF INCOMING!

Just kidding, enjoy the armor

Also, I don't think you saw that part of my stream last week, but when I made it to Access--where I spent a quarter of the game--early on I discovered a stockpile of three awesome powered armors, which combined with my four power sources kept me in great shape for quite a while! I don't believe I've ever found the regenerative armors before, but you've got more games to your name than I do at this point .

I didn't see that part of your live but I watched the rest of it on Twitch.  I love powered armor - possibly my fav armor on the game.

The reason you've never found regen armor is because it currently only spawns in storage - and I suspect only in a storage that you enter off -7.  I did some experimentation today and confirmed that you can't hack a schematic for regenerative armor.  Going forward, I'm going to hunt for storage on -7 more often.  Also, for parts that don't have hackable schematics (i.e. branch only parts), would scanning them in a scanalyzer make fabricating them possible?

[Kyzrati]

The reason you've never found regen armor is because it currently only spawns in storage - and I suspect only in a storage that you enter off -7.

Oh, right. It's one of the special rare parts. Too many parts, I forget

There are several more types of rare armors, but that's the only one that can be found in game right now. I just checked to be sure, and it can theoretically appear in any storage--it's not limited by depth. That's what makes storage so neat: it's got some really nice loot that is not depth-restricted, BUT entering it too early in the game can be pretty deadly due to the tighter confines and therefore higher density of encounters.

The chance of finding Lgt. Regenerative Plating is pretty low overall, so not something you can count on, either (4.5%, and only if that type of special room is generated--the same room can contain other powerful parts as well).

Also, for parts that don't have hackable schematics (i.e. branch only parts), would scanning them in a scanalyzer make fabricating them possible?

Yep! That's one of the advantages of scanalyzers over hacking schematics, besides being an easier way to get schematics for a part you already have than hacking (the chance of success is greater).

Spoiler

The only class of parts in the game that cannot be scanalyzed for fabrication is alien technology, but you haven't seen any of that yet

[close]

(Of course you can't scan broken parts, and actually on looking at the code it also won't let you scan a deteriorating part.)

[Happylisk]

Potential big spoiler ahead

Spoiler

 
Like a really big spoiler

Spoiler

Not even kidding if I'm right it's a big spoiler

Spoiler

Abandon all hope ye who enter here

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the secret to reducing the security level to zero in any given run is entering Waste and then leaving naked.  I did some experimenting today trying to find the secret to zero security.  On -6, after blowing plenty of stuff up, I entered a Garrison, blew plenty more stuff up, blew up 2 relays, and got 3 garrison interior comprised messages.  I then exited the Garrison, landed back on -6, immediately went into Waste, left naked, checked the security level, and it said low security. 

Kyzrati did say the trick to low security level was costly.  Leaving Waste naked fits the bill.  There's also a fluff explanation for this: the global AI would probably not be too threatened by something naked coming out of the trash heap. 

I might be wrong, but I can't otherwise explain why it was low security after stomping all over a Garrison. 

[close]

[close]

[close]

[close]

[jimmijamjams]

Potential big spoiler ahead

Spoiler

 
Like a really big spoiler

Spoiler

Not even kidding if I'm right it's a big spoiler

Spoiler

Abandon all hope ye who enter here

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the secret to reducing the security level to zero in any given run is entering Waste and then leaving naked.  I did some experimenting today trying to find the secret to zero security.  On -6, after blowing plenty of stuff up, I entered a Garrison, blew plenty more stuff up, blew up 2 relays, and got 3 garrison interior comprised messages.  I then exited the Garrison, landed back on -6, immediately went into Waste, left naked, checked the security level, and it said low security. 

Kyzrati did say the trick to low security level was costly.  Leaving Waste naked fits the bill.  There's also a fluff explanation for this: the global AI would probably not be too threatened by something naked coming out of the trash heap. 

I might be wrong, but I can't otherwise explain why it was low security after stomping all over a Garrison. 

[close]

[close]

[close]

[close]

To continue the

Spoiler

I can confirm that this has happened to me on one occasion although I didn't realise it was connected to being naked.  In fact, I can add another

Spoiler

The first item I found was a set of Drone Bays.  I was able to hide in a corner and search large sections of the map without my drones getting agro from hostiles.

[close]

[close]

[Decker]

Spoiler

I'm playing the Heavy Metal seed. I got in trouble on -5 for a long time (down to 30% health) and I had to fend off 4-7 ARCs that kept piling (I don't recall precisely). Alert level must have been high. I went down a chute and checked the alert level thereafter. Low security.

I don't think there is a connection to being naked to reset the security level. Even if there is, I believe that going down the chute has a big enough effect on its own that going naked is counter-productive.

Kyzrati, would you mind commenting on this topic?

[close]

[Kyzrati]

Kyzrati, would you mind commenting on this topic?

For a while I've been intentionally avoiding commenting on this particular topic to leave something for you guys to figure out

Multiple people have already started figuring it out, though, so I'll reveal it:

Spoiler

Yes, that is the secret to resetting the security level. Going naked is unnecessary overkill, however . Simply by ending up there they assume you've been dealt with by the Compactors.

[close]

[Happylisk]

Multiple people have already started figuring it out, though, so I'll reveal it:

Spoiler

Yes, that is the secret to resetting the security level. Going naked is unnecessary overkill, however . Simply by ending up there they assume you've been dealt with by the Compactors.

[close]

Spoiler

Ah, good to know the naked part isn't necessary.  I often leave Waste naked since I tend to drop everything once I enter, and if I don't get the mass-ally event, that stuff tends to stay dropped.

Going forward, it looks like a good move is to drop into Waste early on in either -5 or -4 with a strong launcher and extra matter containers.  Late factory is where the alert level tends to spike, so it'd be nice to give it a reset.

[close]

[zxc]

Won my first game since the tournament. It wasn't the weekly seed, which I'll squeeze in next. Not sure where else to post this. Stealth game. Pretty easy until -2.

Made use of trojans. I like Track a lot, because it's very useful to help super-range sensors on a stealth build. Botnet seems a bit weak (diminishing returns) so I mainly stuck to one botnet per floor if I could. Assimilate is the best. My operator ally located hidden doors and traps immediately. Extremely strong.

I still feel quite rusty. I made only a couple of mistakes, but they were enough to really destroy my run. Somehow I stayed alive and scraped out the win.

Code Select Expand

Cogmind - Alpha 4b

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (61)      305
Value Destroyed (1221)     1221
Prototype IDs (13)         260
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (2690)               2690
              TOTAL SCORE: 8976

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             298/1600
Matter                     210/300
Energy                     49/50
System Corruption          14%
Temperature                Cool (6)
Location                   Surface

Parts
-------
Power (2)
Propulsion (5)
Utility (16)
Weapon (2)

Inventory
-----------
Experimental Matter Compressor
Heavy Rocket Launcher
Improved Ion Engine

Peak State
------------
Power
  Micro Nuclear Core
  Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Flight Unit
  Xenon Bombardment Thruster
  Electron Diverter
  Impulse Thruster
  Impulse Thruster
Utility
  Advanced Sensor Array
  Long-range Terrain Scanner
  Improved Decoy Generator
  Improved Connection Mask
  Advanced ECM Suite
  System Shield
  Advanced Signal Interpreter
  Decoy Generator
  Experimental Transmission Jammer
  Advanced Power Amplifier
  Advanced Overload Amplifier
  Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
  Improved Light Armor Plating
  Advanced Overload Regulator
Weapon
  Advanced Datajack
[Rating: 130]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Micro Nuclear Core
  Engine                   Light Ion Engine
  Power Core               Micro Nuclear Core
  Reactor                  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion                 Cesium-ion Thruster
  Treads                   Durable Medium Treads
  Wheel                    Centrium Wheel
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Flight Unit              Cesium-ion Thruster
Utility                    Deep Network Scanner
  Device                   Advanced Sensor Array
  Storage                  Medium Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Signal Interpreter
  Hackware                 Deep Network Scanner
  Protection               Insulated Light Armor
Weapon                     Scythe
  Energy Gun               EM Pulse Gun
  Launcher                 Micro-nuke Launcher
  Special Weapon           Improved Remote Datajack
  Slashing Weapon          Scythe
  Special Melee Weapon     Advanced Datajack

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          10
  Worker                   11
  Builder                  3
  Tunneler                 2
  Hauler                   4
  Recycler                 9
  Mechanic                 2
  Operator                 1
  Swarmer                  20
  Grunt                    8
  Sentry                   1
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           13
  Combat Bots Only         6
Matter Collected           1849
  Salvage Created          2187
Parts Attached             118
  Power                    17
  Propulsion               23
  Utility                  46
  Weapon                   32
Parts Lost                 58
  Power                    8
  Propulsion               17
  Utility                  24
  Weapon                   9
Average Slot Usage (%)     73
  Naked Turns              5
Spaces Moved               8265
  Fastest Speed (%)        769
  Average Speed (%)        464
  Slowest Speed (%)        20
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           24
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             55
  Greatest Overweight (x)  16
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          8
  Most Items Carried       8
  Average Items Carried    4
Core Damage Taken          1812
Average Core Remaining (%) 84
  Depth 10 End             83
  Depth 9 End              74
  Depth 8 End              92
  Depth 7 End              100
  Depth 6 End              100
  Depth 5 End              100
  Depth 4 End              100
  Depth 3 End              86
  Depth 2 End              90
  Depth 1 End              18
Volleys Fired              84
  Largest                  2
  Hottest                  94
Shots Fired                116
  Gun                      69
  Cannon                   0
  Launcher                 46
  Special                  1
  Kinetic                  0
  Thermal                  29
  Explosive                46
  Electromagnetic          40
Shots Hit Robots           95
  Core Hits                107
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              76
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 74
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           5851
  Projectiles              660
  Explosions               3760
  Melee                    1340
  Ramming                  91
  Kinetic                  0
  Thermal                  273
  Explosive                3743
  Electromagnetic          404
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 1340
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      347
  Shots                    8
  Rammed                   24
Highest Temperature        396
  Average Temperature      69
  Shutdowns                1
  Energy Bleed             2
  Interference             1
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         14
  Average Corruption       4
  Message Errors           7
  Parts Rejected           3
  Data loss (map)          17
  Data loss (database)     8
  Misfires                 0
  Misdirections            8
  Targeting Errors         1
  Weapon Failures          0
  Depth 3 End              1
  Depth 2 End              6
  Depth 1 End              14
Haulers Intercepted        4
Robots Corrupted           0
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          39
Communications Jammed      38
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             6
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        39
  Terminals                31
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          2
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              2
  Garrison Access          4
Machines Hacked            34
  Terminals                29
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          1
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              1
  Garrison Access          3
Total Hacks                128
  Successful               37
  Failed                   91
  Catastrophic             23
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   88
  Unauthorized             63
  Terminals                119
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              1
  Garrison Access          5
Terminal Hacks             16
  Record                   1
  Part Schematic           0
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        4
  Open Door                0
  Level Access Points      3
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  1
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Garrison Index           0
  Alert Level              0
  Unreport Threat          0
  Locate Traps             5
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            2
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         47
  Full Trace Events        2
  Feedback Events          1
  Feedback Corruption      1
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Garrisons Disabled         1
Garrisons Compromised      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   3
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             1
  Part Repair Time         40
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        1
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               7
  Largest Group            2
  Highest-Rated Group      21
  Highest-Rated Ally       21
Total Orders               6
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  6
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           1
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             217
  Average Influence        47
  Final Influence          15
Maximum Alert Level        1
  Low Security (%)         98
  Level 1                  1
  Level 2                  0
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          17
  Investigation            4
  Extermination            4
  Reinforcement            8
  Assault                  0
  Garrison                 1
Exploration Rate (%)       24
  Regions Visited          12
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Turns Passed               4769
  Depth 11                 48
  Depth 10                 433
  Depth 9                  471
  Depth 8                  286
  Depth 7                  242
  Depth 6                  263
  Depth 5                  282
  Depth 4                  354
  Depth 3                  625
  Depth 2                  746
  Depth 1                  1019
  Scrapyard                48
  Materials                1179
  Factory                  1141
  Research                 1371
  Access                   1019
  Mines                    11

Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Flight Unit
Electron Diverter
Improved Q-Thruster
Advanced Plasma Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Heavy Fusion Cannon
Scatter Rocket Array
Mini Smartbomb Launcher
Improved Energy Well
Experimental Matter Compressor
Experimental Transmission Jammer
Advanced Power Amplifier
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Quantum Shading Machine
Dimensional Manipulator
Improved Quantum Shroud
Experimental Core Analyzer
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Advanced Overload Regulator
Improved Footprint Analyzer

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1450015007
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 204 min
Sessions: 3
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 20
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50


X=8690371583532929566149654924
432443216462626216662512224666
246966925645625412496464432522
426644431469434654464623913952
645292595621551691926663966554
126694642294263255622546654265
466546636126244669269441126514
622915625465246665165565654614
351643942462233693969649966595
639321124346266645953456624234
214299666329666616646666663234
626299922646394263524336661542
263645454666163446666664665266
646666666466266663695244644266
666966664964266666646666666364
665222241666246666661466666244
245954522644963496564595664994
246695124296369336954626162121
213412629359962525912464296495
244944954464232495664546562613
364444655565

Going strong at -6.

Spoiler

[close]

-3 was no problem. Major issues on -2 being unable to find the stairs and programmers being a real pain.

Spoiler

[close]

Luckily the stairs were right there. I flew along behind the recycler to prevent the sentry from shooting me, so I reached the exit without taking a single hit.

Spoiler

[close]

-1 just WRECKED me. I didn't take many screenshots because honestly I thought I was completely dead. All I had left was a single flight unit and an Adv ECM Suite that seemed to survive everything. Despite being pursued by programmers, swarmers and a ton of other baddies, I somehow got to the edge of the map and a quirk of the level chokepoints must've slowed down the swarmers, as I was able to barely outrun them with 35 delay movement (stopping occasionally to regen energy - no power source). I reached a secret passage on the outskirts of the map and activated my ECM suite for a single turn every 3 turns because I had no power source. Eventually I was satisfied that I lost them, but I had absolutely nothing. I began retracing my steps and dodging more fire from grunts, and picked up some items to slowly rebuild, where this screenshot was taken.

Spoiler

[close]

Major spoilers. Don't open unless you've won before.

Spoiler

Don't open unless you've won before. I mean it.

Spoiler

I went for the centre of the map, and my favourite method of locating the exit with sensors was impossible as I had no sensors. However, I did find the exit (while pursued by programmers and other baddies to the east). I had shot through this gate on my combat win so I thought a micro-nuke launcher could easily do it... but it did no damage and it just made the two behemoths really mad. I guess you have to kill them before you can destroy the gate.

Spoiler

[close]

The issue here was that I didn't have enough matter to blast through the side walls to reach the exit. I had to keep moving and trying to find matter, but things went wrong. I thought I'd try bodyslamming some programmers to gain matter but I was very far from the exit by this stage and too many enemies were nearby. I eventually had to bail. I was in a pretty terrible state after that. Exit is visible at the bottom-right.

Spoiler

[close]

I found a recycler to ram, but enemies were tearing me up in the meantime. I got my matter payday though.

Spoiler

[close]

Carving my final path to the exit.

Spoiler

[close]

I very nearly died. Is this the first streaker to ascend?

Spoiler

[close]

[close]

[close]

[Kyzrati]

Wow, epic run zxc! Thanks for sharing, and yeah you're probably the first Cogmind to pull off such a close -1. Naked even

Damn you're good at stealth.

Spoiler

That blow-through-"that-particular-wall" strategy you used there will be even more difficult in future versions, because those brighter walls have been weaker against AoE weapons than intended. It's one of the things I fixed in Alpha 5. Only the most powerful launchers in the game will be able to pull that off, currently only one of which can be found.

Speaking of Alpha 5... I just finished playtesting a new combat change--reduced large volley time costs--and, oh man, I'm running 7 weapon slots at -5 and dishing out ownage left and right... I might need to tone it down a bit, not sure yet, but it's good enough to have some fun with in an alpha build

[close]

[zxc]

Spoiler

That blow-through-"that-particular-wall" strategy you used there will be even more difficult in future versions, because those brighter walls have been weaker against AoE weapons than intended. It's one of the things I fixed in Alpha 5. Only the most powerful launchers in the game will be able to pull that off, currently only one of which can be found.

[close]

Spoiler

I am sad to hear that. All but two of my wins have used this method. My very first hacked the seal, but this was with the bugged 100 speed enemy movement so it was a lot easier back then. My combat win just blasted through the behemoths.

If you're taking a stealthy approach, taking on the behemoths is a no-go. And if you prevent that other strategy, that leaves only hacking the exit. This is very precarious, random, and time-costly considering that you have to reset the trace so many times, and all the while enemies are coming after you. And there is a chance you will get locked out of the terminal anyway, which would mean either you have to find that single rare launcher (probably impossible) or destroy the behemoths (close to impossible if you are a stealthy build at that late stage). I would advise reconsidering unless you are going to implement other ways to escape (or make the other two methods easier).

[close]

[Kyzrati]

end of game semi-spoilers, beware!

The other two methods are easier than you might think. I could spoil it for you if you like, though maybe not . Your run post had a little bit of... misinformation in it. Also, out of curiosity: have you ever discovered the second way to get a terminal to open a locked door? Besides those, know that AoE weapons are not the most powerful in terms of concentrated fire--there is also currently one cannon powerful enough to punch through those walls, and the main reason there are only a few such weapons right now is that a larger number are going to appear in dedicated areas of the game which haven't been added yet, the point being that if you intend/hope to use that strategy, you can take a route that will allow you to amass some serious firepower. I can say no more on that

[close]

Edit: Also, time for sleep, back for another day tomorrow...

[zxc]

end of game semi-spoilers, you others stay out!

The other two methods are easier than you might think. I could spoil it for you if you like, though maybe not . Your run post had a little bit of... misinformation in it. Also, out of curiosity: have you ever discovered the second way to get a terminal to open a locked door? Besides those, know that AoE weapons are not the most powerful in terms of concentrated fire--there is also currently one cannon powerful enough to punch through those walls, and the main reason there are only a few such weapons right now is that a larger number are going to appear in dedicated areas of the game which haven't been added yet, the point being that if you intend/hope to use that strategy, you can take a route that will allow you to amass some serious firepower. I can say no more on that

[close]

Spoiler

Well taking on the behemoths with a battered stealth build at that stage (like my screenshot) would be close to impossible. You seem to be implying that destroying the behemoths was not a requirement for shooting through the gate. My combat run used cannons (shots that missed the behemoths tore down the walls) (edit: actually I don't think I had cannons - I was relying on the 10 rating kinetic weapons) (edit2: actually I think I switched to EM cannons for the behemoths). Maybe you can run straight in and shoot through the gate with a cannon, but I am not tempted to try such a risky experimental strategy when it's so difficult to reach that late stage - this is also why I've stuck to blasting the sides. There is also the risk of the cannon(s) being destroyed before the strategy can be pulled off, and also cannons require a lot of energy/matter so you need to be pretty well set up to pull this off, in which case you could probably hack the seal just as easily.

I went to a lot of trouble to get that strategy to work. Other runs I lacked the right launchers, and in this run I lacked matter and time. I've only done this strategy -really smoothly- about twice so far. If it's this hard, and the other methods are apparently easier than I think, then what is the purpose behind nerfing this strategy?

I don't know about a second way to open sealed doors. If it's been mentioned before I've forgotten it.

I would not want to enter a map to get weapons to employ this strategy as it sounds like hacking would then be the easier method. But I'll have to see. At some point I'll need to experiment more at the risk of losing otherwise winnable games. For some reason, I find this hard to do. I also take the path of least resistance in DCSS, as almost all my wins are 3-rune games.

[close]

[Kyzrati]

Spoiler

I went to a lot of trouble to get that strategy to work. Other runs I lacked the right launchers, and in this run I lacked matter and time. I've only done this strategy -really smoothly- about twice so far. If it's this hard, and the other methods are apparently easier than I think, then what is the purpose behind nerfing this strategy?

Well, technically it's not a nerf. That part of the game was broken and I only discovered it while working on Alpha 5 . The intention of so-called "barrier walls," brighter walls you see around sensitive areas, is that you'll be forced to employ a narrower range of specific tactics to access them, rather than simply having a launcher. I forgot to have AOE damage spread across terrain like it does robots, and launchers do a massive amount of total damage (because it normally spreads), so that had to be fixed.

end game spoilerception!

And yes, you can blast through the Behemoth-guarded wall with a shot from pretty much any late-game cannon. It would certainly have been more risky in your beat up state by that point, yeah.

That said, It's likely I'll also be adding a completely new way to get that back door open in Access, one that wouldn't require hacking or serious firepower (and one that you might've been able to use in your situation). It's related to a new mechanic you'll see in Alpha 5. So don't worry, there will always be options. I like having as many options as possible (I just don't want any one of them to be the obvious easy way, e.g. blasting through the wall with any old launcher.)

[close]

I don't know about a second way to open sealed doors. If it's been mentioned before I've forgotten it.

To my knowledge only one player has discovered it, and in the most coincidental of circumstances--it enabled them to win the game by accident. Even if you know about it it's not reliable, however, just a backup possibility.

At some point I'll need to experiment more at the risk of losing otherwise winnable games. For some reason, I find this hard to do. I also take the path of least resistance in DCSS, as almost all my wins are 3-rune games.

I would not want to enter a map to get weapons to employ this strategy as it sounds like hacking would then be the easier method. But I'll have to see.

Oh I agree, that would be tough. I think it will continue becoming easier to explore alternative approaches to the late game, with Complex 0b10 difficulty generally trending downward with each new release.

[close]

[zxc]

Spoiler

I went to a lot of trouble to get that strategy to work. Other runs I lacked the right launchers, and in this run I lacked matter and time. I've only done this strategy -really smoothly- about twice so far. If it's this hard, and the other methods are apparently easier than I think, then what is the purpose behind nerfing this strategy?

Well, technically it's not a nerf. That part of the game was broken and I only discovered it while working on Alpha 5 . The intention of so-called "barrier walls," brighter walls you see around sensitive areas, is that you'll be forced to employ a narrower range of specific tactics to access them, rather than simply having a launcher. I forgot to have AOE damage spread across terrain like it does robots, and launchers do a massive amount of total damage (because it normally spreads), so that had to be fixed.

end game spoilerception!

And yes, you can blast through the Behemoth-guarded wall with a shot from pretty much any late-game cannon. It would certainly have been more risky in your beat up state by that point, yeah.

That said, It's likely I'll also be adding a completely new way to get that back door open in Access, one that wouldn't require hacking or serious firepower (and one that you might've been able to use in your situation). It's related to a new mechanic you'll see in Alpha 5. So don't worry, there will always be options. I like having as many options as possible (I just don't want any one of them to be the obvious easy way, e.g. blasting through the wall with any old launcher.)

[close]

I don't know about a second way to open sealed doors. If it's been mentioned before I've forgotten it.

To my knowledge only one player has discovered it, and in the most coincidental of circumstances--it enabled them to win the game by accident. Even if you know about it it's not reliable, however, just a backup possibility.

At some point I'll need to experiment more at the risk of losing otherwise winnable games. For some reason, I find this hard to do. I also take the path of least resistance in DCSS, as almost all my wins are 3-rune games.

I would not want to enter a map to get weapons to employ this strategy as it sounds like hacking would then be the easier method. But I'll have to see.

Oh I agree, that would be tough. I think it will continue becoming easier to explore alternative approaches to the late game, with Complex 0b10 difficulty generally trending downward with each new release.

[close]

Spoiler

This all sounds good. I think I need to experiment more with the seals in Storage.

Spoiler

I did note that 'any old launcher' didn't do the trick. You need a half decent one to get through those walls.

[close]

[close]

[Kyzrati]

I did note that 'any old launcher' didn't do the trick. You need a half decent one to get through those walls.

Well, depends on how quickly you want to do it, because damage is random over a range. Technically (in Alpha 4, anyway) that particular wall can be taken down even with something as early as a rating 4 Hvy. Rocket Launcher. For a guaranteed 1-2 volley take-down, you'd need something around a rating 7-8 level or above.

(And with these I'm referring to EX launchers; EM aren't powerful enough.)

So yeah, a standard Grenade Launcher isn't going to cut it; still, I was exaggerating just a bit with "any old launcher"