Here's the place for general spoiler-free feedback and discussion about the most recent releases, if you want to talk about something that you don't feel warrants a dedicated thread.
Alpha 9 release notes and changelog (http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=494.0).
If you want to freely talk about spoiler content without the annoyance of spoiler tags, there's a thread for that (http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=496.0) :D. Note that it's fine to talk about spoilers here as well (if perhaps they're only a small part of what you have to say), just tag them appropriately.
Pretty keen to jump right in with this one. I might make the next weekly seed early.
Really curious to see how the flight changes play out. Combined with changes to machines, I think there will be a net increase in ease as well as fun.
By the way, you reference a specific trojan in the changenotes which could be spoilery, maybe?
Nerf to core-analyzers vs behemoths/marauders seems weird. Were people even stacking them? Not sure about that.
I'm curious, too! More fun would be good :D
I'd say go ahead with a new seed whenever. I'm going to stream this one on Friday night EST now that I'm no longer crunching away on it--have yet to get in a full Alpha 9 run myself.
Quote from: zxc on June 07, 2016, 09:37:26 PM
By the way, you reference a specific trojan in the changenotes which could be spoilery, maybe?
I considered that, but decided it needed to be in the public changelog as a rather significant change, so I at least didn't mention where you use it... (It's also only one of now 22 different unauthorized hacks!)
Quote from: zxc on June 07, 2016, 09:37:26 PM
Nerf to core-analyzers vs behemoths/marauders seems weird. Were people even stacking them?
Certain robots now have more protected cores that are immune to critical destruction (mostly NPCs), and at the same time it felt like Core Analyzers would be a way to somewhat circumvent that core protection and become an optimal way to deal with high-integrity boss-like robots we're starting to see. And shortly before release I wanted to do a little something to make Behemoths more deadly, so in addition to boosting their integrity, I gave them that new protected core characteristic. I still want to revisit Behemoths in more detail depending on how they play now--this time was a quick change in that direction.
I can not wait to get started on this. I'm still working through weekly seed #42 Shotty Mayhem. It's been going on for a while.... four separate trips to the caves!
As soon as I'm done, I'll be digging into this.
Incidentally, if the next seed isn't "Fabulous", you're doing it wrong ;)
Quote from: Shobalk on June 07, 2016, 10:09:49 PM
I can not wait to get started on this. I'm still working through weekly seed #42 Shotty Mayhem. It's been going on for a while.... four separate trips to the caves!
Ha, it's finally possible for a single run to go on for quite some time now that there are so many branch routes ;D
I'm planning to go back and further increase the variety of cave content later on, too, so there's still a chance to occasionally have some more unexpected types of encounters. Also for some of the other maps.
Machine changes are sweet as. I've never fabricated so much. The on-map timer and changes to fabrication requirements are just awesome. I also love that the investigation squad dispatched after a detection is announced.
Flight changes seem good. Combined with the machine changes I think flight wins will be more reliable than ever before.
I've been going in a loop where I keep entering the chute, then factory, then the chute, over and over. Gradually I built up items. Perhaps disable the chute traps from spawning on the floor after exiting the wastes. With an excellent combat build I can see massive scores being possible.
Quote from: zxc on June 12, 2016, 01:54:05 PM
Machine changes are sweet as. I've never fabricated so much. The on-map timer and changes to fabrication requirements are just awesome. I also love that the investigation squad dispatched after a detection is announced.
That probably should've been in there earlier ::). All dispatched are now announced, also making it easier for beginners to figure out the consequences of specific actions.
Quote from: zxc on June 12, 2016, 01:54:05 PM
Flight changes seem good. Combined with the machine changes I think flight wins will be more reliable than ever before.
Excellent, reliable is good :). That was the original intent of the system, to fill in those holes and make sure you'd have a way to get something you can't find, especially for specific types of runs.
Quote from: zxc on June 12, 2016, 01:54:05 PM
I've been going in a loop where I keep entering the chute, then factory, then the chute, over and over. Gradually I built up items. Perhaps disable the chute traps from spawning on the floor after exiting the wastes. With an excellent combat build I can see massive scores being possible.
Good points, I do believe chutes will need an adjustment, and that should be the first. I have been waiting for people to take advantage of that, and it's getting easier and easier to do so :P
I just finished my first run with Alpha 9.
Cogmind - Alpha 9
Name: zzxc
---[ ESCAPED! ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9) 4500
Robots Destroyed (35) 175
Value Destroyed (1028) 1028
Prototype IDs (18) 360
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (3000) 3000
TOTAL SCORE: 9063
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 1462/1600
Matter 49/300
Energy 125/300
System Corruption 2%
Temperature Cool (12)
Location Surface
Parts
-------
Power (3)
Backup Power III
Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (6)
Improved VTOL Module
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Improved Field Propulsion Drive
Utility (14)
Advanced Sensor Array
Improved Signal Interpreter
Advanced Terrain Scan Processor
Advanced Transmission Jammer
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Improved Hacking Suite
Improved Hacking Suite
Experimental Hacking Suite
Improved System Shield
Weapon (2)
Micro-nuke Launcher
Advanced Datajack
Inventory(4)
Field Propulsion Drive
EM Disruption Field
Backup Laser VII
Peak State
------------
Power
Backup Power III
Backup Power VII
Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
Improved VTOL Module
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Field Propulsion Drive
Improved Field Propulsion Drive
Utility
Advanced Sensor Array
Improved Signal Interpreter
Long-range Terrain Scanner
Advanced Terrain Scan Processor
Advanced Transmission Jammer
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Insulated Medium Armor
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Improved Hacking Suite
Improved Hacking Suite
Experimental Hacking Suite
Improved System Shield
Weapon
Backup Laser III
Advanced Datajack
Inventory
Field Propulsion Drive
EM Disruption Field
Backup Laser VII
Micro-nuke Launcher
[Rating: 117]
Favorites
-----------
Power Enhanced Nuclear Core
Engine Light Ion Engine
Power Core Enhanced Nuclear Core
Reactor Quantum Reactor
Propulsion Improved VTOL Module
Treads Medium Treads
Flight Unit Improved VTOL Module
Utility Hacking Suite
Device Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Processor Improved Signal Interpreter
Hackware Hacking Suite
Protection Improved Medium Armor Plating
Weapon Improved Datajack
Energy Gun Small Laser
Ballistic Gun Assault Rifle
Ballistic Cannon Light Cannon
Launcher Heavy Rocket Launcher
Special Melee Weapon Improved Datajack
Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown 3000
Win 3000
Classes Destroyed 6
Worker 3
Builder 1
Hauler 10
Recycler 2
Swarmer 14
Grunt 5
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 5
Combat Bots Only 4
Matter Collected 1351
Salvage Created 1453
Parts Attached 105
Power 17
Propulsion 28
Utility 45
Weapon 15
Parts Lost 31
Power 9
Propulsion 3
Utility 12
Weapon 7
Average Slot Usage (%) 88
Naked Turns 3
Spaces Moved 9550
Fastest Speed (%) 434
Average Speed (%) 333
Slowest Speed (%) 20
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 0
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 41
Greatest Support 89
Greatest Overweight (x) 10
Average Overweight (x) 0
Largest Inventory 4
Most Items Carried 4
Average Items Carried 3
Core Damage Taken 631
Average Core Remaining (%) 90
Depth 10 Exit 75
Depth 9 Exit 100
Depth 8 Exit 77
Depth 7 Exit 82
Depth 6 Exit 96
Depth 5 Exit 100
Depth 4 Exit 100
Depth 3 Exit 93
Depth 2 Exit 94
Depth 1 Exit 91
Volleys Fired 82
Largest 2
Hottest 80
Shots Fired 132
Gun 101
Cannon 9
Launcher 22
Special 0
Kinetic 57
Thermal 53
Explosive 22
Electromagnetic 0
Entropic 0
Shots Hit Robots 85
Core Hits 50
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 32
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 2478
Projectiles 749
Explosions 1729
Melee 0
Ramming 0
Kinetic 475
Thermal 367
Explosive 1586
Electromagnetic 50
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Entropic 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 0
Shots 0
Rammed 0
Highest Temperature 335
Average Temperature 39
Shutdowns 0
Energy Bleed 0
Interference 0
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 6
Average Corruption 4
Message Errors 4
Parts Rejected 0
Data loss (map) 5
Data loss (database) 2
Misfires 1
Misdirections 7
Targeting Errors 0
Weapon Failures 0
Depth 2 End 6
Depth 1 End 2
Haulers Intercepted 10
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 0
Power Chain Reactions 0
Tactical Retreats 26
Communications Jammed 15
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 2
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 3
Indirectly 3
Trap Hack Attempts 2
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 1
Reused 0
Machines Disabled 16
Data Cores Recovered 0
Used 0
Machines Hacked 76
Terminals 42
Fabricators 7
Repair Stations 11
Recycling Units 6
Scanalyzers 5
Garrison Access 5
Total Hacks 265
Successful 162
Failed 102
Catastrophic 20
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 42
Unauthorized 13
Terminals 139
Fabricators 33
Repair Stations 36
Recycling Units 19
Scanalyzers 28
Garrison Access 10
Terminal Hacks 64
Record 12
Part Schematic 3
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 3
Open Door 3
Level Access Points 5
Branch Access Points 3
Emergency Access Points 6
Machine Index 3
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 1
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Garrison Index 0
Alert Level 2
Unreport Threat 2
Locate Traps 7
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 1
Dispatch Records 2
Maintenance Status 2
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 1
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 1
Assault Status 0
Garrison Status 0
Intercept Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 3
Registered Prototypes 1
Zone Layout 3
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 58
Full Trace Events 14
Feedback Events 1
Feedback Corruption 1
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Trojans Installed 4
Terminals 4
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Fabricators Overloaded 0
Garrisons Disabled 4
Garrisons Compromised 0
Fabrication Nework Shutdowns2
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 13
Parts Built 8
Total Part Build Rating 29
Part Fabrication Matter 1508
Part Fabrication Time 574
Parts Repaired 11
Part Repair Time 499
Parts Recycled 2
Recycled Matter 33
Retrieved Matter 33
Retrieved Components 3
Parts Scanalyzed 11
Part Schematics Acquired 10
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 12
Combat 0
Parse 1
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 9
Assimilated 2
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 2
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 5
Largest Group 1
Highest-Rated Group 20
Highest-Rated Ally 20
Total Orders 3
STAY 0
GOTO 2
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 1
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 595
Average Influence 73
Final Influence 509
Maximum Alert Level 2
Low Security (%) 87
Level 1 5
Level 2 6
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 22
Investigation 14
Extermination 3
Reinforcement 4
Assault 1
Garrison 0
Intercept 0
Derelict Logs Recovered 2
Exploration Rate (%) 20
Regions Visited 22
Pre-discovered Areas 0
Garrisons Visited 0
Relays Disabled 0
Generators Disabled 0
Network Hubs Disabled 0
Actions Taken 11599
Turns Passed 5332
Depth 11 60
Depth 10 565
Depth 9 57
Depth 8 211
Depth 7 1231
Depth 6 845
Depth 5 938
Depth 4 588
Depth 3 128
Depth 2 475
Depth 1 234
Scrapyard 60
Materials 594
Factory 2928
Research 603
Access 234
Mines 66
Storage 173
Waste 227
Lower Caves 447
Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Ion Engine
Enhanced Nuclear Core
Light Neutrino Core
Improved Flight Unit
Improved VTOL Module
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Improved Field Propulsion Drive
Experimental Heat Sink
Experimental Optical Array
Advanced Power Amplifier
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Quarantine Testbed
Experimental Thermal Shield
Experimental Utility Shielding
Advanced Particle Charger
Experimental Hacking Suite
Advanced Beam Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Fabricated
------------
1x Adv. Sensor Array (-6/Factory)
1x Enh. Nuclear Core (-6/Factory)
1x Adv. Sensor Array (-5/Factory)
1x Imp. Hacking Suite (-4/Factory)
1x Imp. Hacking Suite (-4/Factory)
1x Adv. Sensor Array (-2/Research)
1x Imp. Hacking Suite (-1/Access)
1x Imp. Hacking Suite (-1/Access)
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-10/Mines
-9/Materials
-9/Mines
-8/Materials
-8/Storage
-7/Factory
-7/Waste
-7/Factory (discovered 2 exits: *Low x2)
-7/Lower Caves
-7/Lower Caves
-6/Factory
-6/Waste
-6/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Fac x4)
-5/Factory
-5/Waste
-5/Factory (discovered 5 exits: *Fac / Upp x2 / Ext x2)
-4/Factory (discovered 3 exits: *Res / Upp x2)
-3/Research (discovered 3 exits: *Res x3)
-2/Research (discovered 3 exits: *Acc x3)
-1/Access
Surface
Game
------
Seed: 1465745486
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 166 min
Sessions: 3
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 109
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Instant
X=9562305008344427092166476254
952412763151542161247175239453
240731155661202433235052961155
142362444296196266450632194909
692632764479767691066565541151
134922240033551151997251979914
923601134145164792757409255401
225446995461113641241134142439
770709422139363906993141241155
590741241151336194471163204141
203291145145001101292173609203
695392902164146455467535351412
290265140595961251145471404101
142241241151550146750201136141
241054142142014706113932437765
560552044115120224110116119444
426145214214124115114214619959
170795659519164545003215444544
124120672356445310169379970221
246431039752061755470099246634
613476934046099293447607295329
205620245220215272977996497939
069669443046500550209393661310
3364122452913642
It definitely seems more reliable. Research still threw me in for a loop though. Access was way easier with a dozen pieces of hackware :P
Back to back wins. First win streak, maybe? Informal, as uploading scoresheets is optional. I think this is win #14.
Cogmind - Alpha 9
Name: zzxc
---[ ESCAPED! ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9) 4500
Robots Destroyed (33) 165
Value Destroyed (729) 729
Prototype IDs (5) 100
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (8334) 8334
TOTAL SCORE: 13828
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 1563/1600
Matter 290/300
Energy 118/390
System Corruption 3%
Temperature Hot (200)
Location Surface
Parts
-------
Power (3)
Quantum Reactor
Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (5)
Improved VTOL Module
Nuclear Pulse Thruster
Electron Diverter
Electron Diverter
Improved Q-Thruster
Utility (15)
Improved Sensor Array
Advanced Signal Interpreter
Advanced ECM Suite
Improved Transmission Jammer
Advanced Weight Redist. System
Advanced Weight Redist. System
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Improved Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Weapon (2)
Mini Grenade Launcher
Power Sword
Inventory(4)
Micro Nuclear Core
Medium Treads
Experimental Q-Thruster
Advanced Signal Interpreter
Peak State
------------
Power
Quantum Reactor
Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
Nuclear Pulse Thruster
Electron Diverter
Electron Diverter
Improved Q-Thruster
Experimental Q-Thruster
Utility
Improved Sensor Array
Advanced Signal Interpreter
Advanced ECM Suite
Improved Transmission Jammer
Advanced Weight Redist. System
Advanced Weight Redist. System
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Improved Utility Shielding
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Weapon
Mini Grenade Launcher
Power Sword
Inventory
Micro Nuclear Core
Medium Treads
Experimental Q-Thruster
Advanced Signal Interpreter
[Rating: 133]
Favorites
-----------
Power Improved Ion Engine
Engine Improved Ion Engine
Power Core Micro Nuclear Core
Reactor Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion Flight Unit
Treads Medium Treads
Leg Aluminum Leg
Hover Unit Airjet
Flight Unit Flight Unit
Utility Advanced Hacking Suite
Device Advanced Weight Redist. System
Storage Small Storage Unit
Processor Advanced Signal Interpreter
Hackware Advanced Hacking Suite
Protection Improved Utility Shielding
Weapon Power Sword
Ballistic Gun Assault Rifle
Launcher Mini Grenade Launcher
Slashing Weapon Power Sword
Special Melee Weapon Improved Datajack
Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown 8334
Win 3000
Fast Win 5334
Classes Destroyed 6
Hauler 5
Recycler 3
Watcher 5
Swarmer 14
Grunt 4
Sentry 2
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 5
Combat Bots Only 4
Matter Collected 1275
Salvage Created 1271
Parts Attached 77
Power 15
Propulsion 23
Utility 26
Weapon 13
Parts Lost 16
Power 5
Propulsion 5
Utility 4
Weapon 2
Average Slot Usage (%) 87
Naked Turns 2
Spaces Moved 5880
Fastest Speed (%) 416
Average Speed (%) 307
Slowest Speed (%) 62
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 1
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 60
Greatest Support 104
Greatest Overweight (x) 20
Average Overweight (x) 0
Largest Inventory 6
Most Items Carried 6
Average Items Carried 4
Core Damage Taken 513
Average Core Remaining (%) 91
Depth 10 Exit 86
Depth 9 Exit 74
Depth 8 Exit 97
Depth 7 Exit 91
Depth 6 Exit 80
Depth 5 Exit 96
Depth 4 Exit 94
Depth 3 Exit 100
Depth 2 Exit 100
Depth 1 Exit 97
Volleys Fired 54
Largest 2
Hottest 50
Shots Fired 92
Gun 77
Cannon 0
Launcher 15
Special 0
Kinetic 77
Thermal 0
Explosive 15
Electromagnetic 0
Entropic 0
Shots Hit Robots 82
Core Hits 43
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 60
Impact 0
Slashing 58
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 2892
Projectiles 605
Explosions 884
Melee 1401
Ramming 2
Kinetic 605
Thermal 0
Explosive 884
Electromagnetic 0
Impact 0
Slashing 1401
Piercing 0
Entropic 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 45
Shots 2
Rammed 1
Highest Temperature 326
Average Temperature 65
Shutdowns 0
Energy Bleed 0
Interference 0
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 3
Average Corruption 1
Message Errors 0
Parts Rejected 0
Data loss (map) 0
Data loss (database) 0
Misfires 0
Misdirections 1
Targeting Errors 0
Weapon Failures 0
Depth 7 End 3
Depth 2 End 2
Depth 1 End 3
Haulers Intercepted 5
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 0
Power Chain Reactions 0
Tactical Retreats 19
Communications Jammed 38
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machines Disabled 1
Data Cores Recovered 0
Used 0
Machines Hacked 48
Terminals 24
Fabricators 9
Repair Stations 4
Recycling Units 3
Scanalyzers 3
Garrison Access 3
Total Hacks 117
Successful 67
Failed 48
Catastrophic 12
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 33
Unauthorized 21
Terminals 59
Fabricators 17
Repair Stations 10
Recycling Units 5
Scanalyzers 10
Garrison Access 3
Terminal Hacks 44
Record 11
Part Schematic 2
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 0
Open Door 2
Level Access Points 4
Branch Access Points 1
Emergency Access Points 3
Machine Index 1
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 1
Repair Station Index 1
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Garrison Index 0
Alert Level 0
Unreport Threat 0
Locate Traps 4
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Garrison Status 0
Intercept Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 1
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 2
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 37
Full Trace Events 8
Feedback Events 0
Feedback Corruption 0
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Trojans Installed 5
Terminals 5
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Fabricators Overloaded 0
Garrisons Disabled 3
Garrisons Compromised 0
Fabrication Nework Shutdowns1
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 13
Parts Built 4
Total Part Build Rating 12
Part Fabrication Matter 672
Part Fabrication Time 262
Parts Repaired 1
Part Repair Time 16
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 2
Retrieved Matter 2
Retrieved Components 0
Parts Scanalyzed 2
Part Schematics Acquired 2
Parts Damaged 1
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 1
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 1
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 3
Largest Group 2
Highest-Rated Group 14
Highest-Rated Ally 7
Total Orders 0
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 564
Average Influence 50
Final Influence 12
Maximum Alert Level 2
Low Security (%) 94
Level 1 3
Level 2 1
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 18
Investigation 10
Extermination 4
Reinforcement 4
Assault 0
Garrison 0
Intercept 0
Derelict Logs Recovered 4
Exploration Rate (%) 20
Regions Visited 13
Pre-discovered Areas 2
Garrisons Visited 0
Relays Disabled 0
Generators Disabled 0
Network Hubs Disabled 0
Actions Taken 6649
Turns Passed 3221
Depth 11 68
Depth 10 373
Depth 9 227
Depth 8 146
Depth 7 388
Depth 6 364
Depth 5 234
Depth 4 578
Depth 3 120
Depth 2 377
Depth 1 346
Scrapyard 68
Materials 746
Factory 1136
Research 497
Access 346
Upper Caves 428
Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved VTOL Module
Electron Diverter
Improved Q-Thruster
Experimental Q-Thruster
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Fabricated
------------
2x Flight Unit (-7/Factory)
1x Adv. Hacking Suite (-5/Factory)
1x Adv. Hacking Suite (-4/Factory)
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials
-8/Materials
-7/Factory
-6/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Fac x4)
-5/Factory
-4/Factory
-4/Upper Caves
-4/Upper Caves (discovered 2 exits: *Res / *War)
-3/Research (discovered 5 exits: *Res x3 / Tes x2)
-2/Research (discovered 3 exits: *Acc x3)
-1/Access
Surface
Game
------
Seed: 1465798160
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 92 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 110
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Instant
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Machine changes are making it very good for hacking builds. Just look at this: (https://i.imgur.com/QpxWeul.png)
Note: this is fun. Pls don nerf :D
Upper Caves are very good for flight builds.
Tiny thing that bugged me: I loaded up something to fabricate, then realised I didn't have my last hackware equipped. I exited the fabricator screen and put it on, and opened the fabricator up again. I had to start from scratch. This led to a full trace and other awkwardness. It would be nice if it didn't remove the schematic like that!
Quote from: zxc on June 13, 2016, 01:50:30 AM
Machine changes are making it very good for hacking builds.
That's quite the hacking setup! And you hadn't exactly maxed out on each one either, still using some lower-tier hackware.
Quote from: zxc on June 13, 2016, 01:50:30 AM
Note: this is fun. Pls don nerf :D
This was actually the question that was already going through my mind :P. As long as it's still fun (and fairly challenging!) then it's mostly good as is. I did have a great bit of fun with my latest run with excellent hacking bonuses, with all those new strategic options opening up, but I was also doing combat so eventually got in over my head...
Quote from: zxc on June 13, 2016, 01:50:30 AM
Tiny thing that bugged me: I loaded up something to fabricate, then realised I didn't have my last hackware equipped. I exited the fabricator screen and put it on, and opened the fabricator up again. I had to start from scratch. This led to a full trace and other awkwardness. It would be nice if it didn't remove the schematic like that!
I can see keeping the schematic loaded until fabrication is actually started. I'll see about making it happen (might be a good bit of work since there's no precedent for that sort of behavior in the system).
Quote
This was actually the question that was already going through my mind :P. As long as it's still fun (and fairly challenging!) then it's mostly good as is. I did have a great bit of fun with my latest run with excellent hacking bonuses, with all those new strategic options opening up, but I was also doing combat so eventually got in over my head...
One thing to consider: you still have to
find those chute traps repeatedly. It's not always easy. Perhaps it gets easier with an allied operator.
As for using chutes to build big scores, I did do that sometimes, but really, just going through the Wastes once is enough. There's no need to reset the alert when the AI is doing you a favor by feeding the slaughterhouse at alert level 5.
Also, I suspect these fabrication changes will be most useful for stealthy builds and less useful for combat heavy ones. I'm sure certain endings for the game will require a beefy build and will be inaccessible to stealthy hackers, so that's a balancing factor too.
Haha, feeding the slaughterhouse, a.k.a. Decker.
Quote from: Decker on June 13, 2016, 07:31:12 AM
One thing to consider: you still have to find those chute traps repeatedly. It's not always easy. Perhaps it gets easier with an allied operator.
True, though I still think it's better to break the potential for a near-infinite chain.
(I think you meant to quote this)
Quote from: Kyzrati on June 12, 2016, 10:11:27 PM
Good points, I do believe chutes will need an adjustment, and that should be the first. I have been waiting for people to take advantage of that, and it's getting easier and easier to do so :P
Quote from: Happylisk on June 13, 2016, 07:39:33 AM
Also, I suspect these fabrication changes will be most useful for stealthy builds and less useful for combat heavy ones. I'm sure certain endings for the game will require a beefy build and will be inaccessible to stealthy hackers, so that's a balancing factor too.
Correct (I think :P--we're not there yet so I don't have the details, but the idea is that some endings will be pretty tough for non-combat builds since you'll have to face some challenges rather directly. With guns ;) That's not to stop a stealth runner from migrating to a different loadout, but doing so can sometimes be tough to do. That said, there might be some places in the late game where it's more feasible to do that, say... in a branch.)
Another win which happened to have a lot of chute-ing.
Cogmind - Alpha 9
Name: zzxc
---[ ESCAPED! ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9) 4500
Robots Destroyed (34) 170
Value Destroyed (943) 943
Prototype IDs (26) 520
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (4281) 4281
TOTAL SCORE: 10414
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 1600/1600
Matter 300/300
Energy 522/525
System Corruption 1%
Temperature Cool (3)
Location Surface
Parts
-------
Power (3)
Improved Ion Engine
Micro Fission Core
Heavy Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion (6)
High-density Centrium Heavy Treads
Improved VTOL Module
Field Propulsion Array
Improved Diametric Drive
Utility (14)
Advanced Visual Processing Unit
Enhanced Optical Array
Experimental Signal Interpreter
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Reflective Heavy Armor
Improved Utility Shielding
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
System Shield
System Shield
Advanced System Shield
Weapon (2)
Nova Cannon
Advanced Datajack
Inventory(4)
Nuclear Pulse Thruster
Experimental Cooling System
Smartbomb Launcher
Peak State
------------
Power
Improved Ion Engine
Micro Fission Core
Heavy Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion
High-density Centrium Heavy Treads
Improved VTOL Module
Field Propulsion Array
Improved Diametric Drive
Utility
Advanced Visual Processing Unit
Enhanced Optical Array
Experimental Signal Interpreter
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Reflective Heavy Armor
Improved Utility Shielding
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
System Shield
System Shield
Advanced System Shield
Weapon
Nova Cannon
Advanced Datajack
Inventory
Nuclear Pulse Thruster
Experimental Cooling System
Smartbomb Launcher
[Rating: 137]
Favorites
-----------
Power Light Nuclear Core
Engine Light Ion Engine
Power Core Light Nuclear Core
Reactor Heavy Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion Improved VTOL Module
Treads Durable Medium Treads
Leg Aluminum Leg
Flight Unit Improved VTOL Module
Utility Hacking Suite
Device Improved Sensor Array
Storage Medium Storage Unit
Processor Enhanced Optical Array
Hackware Hacking Suite
Protection Core Shielding
Weapon Advanced Datajack
Energy Gun Small Laser
Energy Cannon Nova Cannon
Ballistic Gun Assault Rifle
Ballistic Cannon Light Cannon
Launcher Compact Tesla Bomb Launcher
Impact Weapon Great Maul
Slashing Weapon Falx
Special Melee Weapon Advanced Datajack
Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown 4281
Win 3000
Fast Win 1281
Classes Destroyed 9
Tunneler 1
Hauler 5
Recycler 6
Operator 1
Watcher 5
Swarmer 4
Grunt 7
Sentry 3
Programmer 2
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 4
Combat Bots Only 3
Matter Collected 1713
Salvage Created 1667
Parts Attached 115
Power 23
Propulsion 25
Utility 48
Weapon 19
Parts Lost 24
Power 9
Propulsion 7
Utility 6
Weapon 2
Average Slot Usage (%) 91
Naked Turns 1
Spaces Moved 7317
Fastest Speed (%) 400
Average Speed (%) 331
Slowest Speed (%) 40
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 0
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 51
Greatest Support 97
Greatest Overweight (x) 5
Average Overweight (x) 0
Largest Inventory 10
Most Items Carried 10
Average Items Carried 3
Core Damage Taken 776
Average Core Remaining (%) 90
Depth 10 Exit 96
Depth 9 Exit 94
Depth 8 Exit 79
Depth 7 Exit 97
Depth 6 Exit 100
Depth 5 Exit 63
Depth 4 Exit 96
Depth 3 Exit 94
Depth 2 Exit 90
Depth 1 Exit 100
Volleys Fired 126
Largest 2
Hottest 113
Shots Fired 190
Gun 84
Cannon 101
Launcher 5
Special 0
Kinetic 131
Thermal 54
Explosive 0
Electromagnetic 5
Entropic 0
Shots Hit Robots 118
Core Hits 48
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 60
Impact 14
Slashing 40
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 3276
Projectiles 1961
Explosions 61
Melee 1254
Ramming 0
Kinetic 1213
Thermal 748
Explosive 0
Electromagnetic 61
Impact 224
Slashing 1030
Piercing 0
Entropic 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 28
Shots 3
Rammed 0
Highest Temperature 246
Average Temperature 47
Shutdowns 0
Energy Bleed 1
Interference 0
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 8
Average Corruption 3
Message Errors 0
Parts Rejected 0
Data loss (map) 0
Data loss (database) 0
Misfires 0
Misdirections 0
Targeting Errors 1
Weapon Failures 0
Depth 8 End 1
Depth 3 End 2
Depth 2 End 8
Depth 1 End 1
Haulers Intercepted 5
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 0
Power Chain Reactions 0
Tactical Retreats 20
Communications Jammed 54
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 2
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machines Disabled 3
Data Cores Recovered 1
Used 0
Machines Hacked 58
Terminals 40
Fabricators 1
Repair Stations 5
Recycling Units 5
Scanalyzers 4
Garrison Access 3
Total Hacks 226
Successful 95
Failed 131
Catastrophic 31
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 64
Unauthorized 16
Terminals 164
Fabricators 5
Repair Stations 18
Recycling Units 18
Scanalyzers 15
Garrison Access 6
Terminal Hacks 58
Record 8
Part Schematic 6
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 1
Prototype ID Bank 5
Open Door 3
Level Access Points 5
Branch Access Points 4
Emergency Access Points 8
Machine Index 2
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Garrison Index 0
Alert Level 0
Unreport Threat 0
Locate Traps 9
Disarm Traps 2
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Garrison Status 0
Intercept Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 1
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 4
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 45
Full Trace Events 7
Feedback Events 1
Feedback Corruption 1
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Trojans Installed 7
Terminals 7
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Fabricators Overloaded 0
Garrisons Disabled 3
Garrisons Compromised 0
Fabrication Nework Shutdowns1
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 6
Parts Built 1
Total Part Build Rating 5
Part Fabrication Matter 190
Part Fabrication Time 31
Parts Repaired 4
Part Repair Time 376
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 13
Retrieved Matter 13
Retrieved Components 3
Parts Scanalyzed 3
Part Schematics Acquired 2
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 1
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 3
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 3
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 2
Largest Group 2
Highest-Rated Group 10
Highest-Rated Ally 5
Total Orders 2
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 2
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 505
Average Influence 57
Final Influence 113
Maximum Alert Level 2
Low Security (%) 90
Level 1 6
Level 2 3
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 19
Investigation 8
Extermination 2
Reinforcement 9
Assault 0
Garrison 0
Intercept 0
Derelict Logs Recovered 2
Exploration Rate (%) 18
Regions Visited 20
Pre-discovered Areas 0
Garrisons Visited 0
Relays Disabled 0
Generators Disabled 0
Network Hubs Disabled 0
Actions Taken 8920
Turns Passed 4572
Depth 11 80
Depth 10 285
Depth 9 229
Depth 8 467
Depth 7 384
Depth 6 58
Depth 5 1227
Depth 4 477
Depth 3 717
Depth 2 439
Depth 1 209
Scrapyard 80
Materials 852
Factory 1733
Research 1156
Access 209
Storage 129
Waste 149
Upper Caves 264
Prototype IDs
---------------
Light Neutrino Core
Heavy Anti-Matter Reactor
High-density Centrium Heavy Treads
Improved VTOL Module
Improved Diametric Drive
Experimental Heat Sink
Experimental Cooling System
Experimental Signal Interpreter
Experimental Terrain Scan Processor
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Experimental Focal Shield
Beam Splitter
EM Dispersion Field
Experimental Reclamation Unit
Experimental Cloaking Device
System Purifier
Improved Medium Laser
Cooled Phase Gun
Improved EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Cooled Phase Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Tactical Quantum Warhead
Tesla Bomb Launcher
Compact Tesla Bomb Launcher
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Fabricated
------------
1x Adv. Hacking Suite (-2/Research)
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials (discovered 3 exits: *Mat x3)
-8/Materials
-8/Storage
-7/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Fac x4)
-6/Factory
-5/Factory
-5/Waste
-5/Factory (discovered 2 exits: Upp x2)
-5/Waste
-5/Factory (discovered 2 exits: Upp x2)
-5/Waste
-5/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Fac x4)
-4/Factory (discovered 4 exits: *Upp x2 / Ext x2)
-4/Upper Caves
-4/Upper Caves
-3/Research (discovered 6 exits: *Res x3 / Arm / *Tes x2)
-2/Research
-1/Access
Surface
Game
------
Seed: 1465915163
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 109 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 116
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Instant
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Kind of surprised this one managed it.
I looked back and realised that my two win streak was actually a three win streak continuing off the pacifist win. It's too bad I decided to experiment with hover and combat next which didn't work out so well.
I feel like exploring the branches now and getting to know the lore better. All of my Alpha 9 games have had a lot of record hacks but I'm still in the dark as to what is going on.
Hehe, zxc is generally like "hey I'm outta here you guys do what you want..."
Quite a looping route in -5! And I see you build more hackware :)
Why'd you decide not to go all the way out in -4?
Building hackware is the way to go! Actually, that one cost me an adv. sensor array and other trouble. I haven't been fabricating a huge amount (I do when I have the right opportunity) but I'm still finding it easier than ever before to churn out wins. Not sure why. Maybe that small amount of reliable fabrication is making all the difference? Or the swarmer/programmer speed nerf... Or the flight unit changes? I still think the flight units aren't quite right, as they don't really get faster from what I've seen but they require much more energy/heat maintenance. IMO heat/energy cost should be almost directly associated with increased speed. Mass support is less important I find, and most of the flight units I find are in the same ballpark.
All the way out? Not sure what you mean. I like the upper caves because they are safe to navigate with flight + sensors + optics, and they
Spoiler
provide advantages leading into research.
edit: Addition of caves certainly helps. Also, chute traps seem to be so common in factory that I just pop in when I'm in an uncomfortable situation. The only problem is it can take forever to trigger them with flight.
edit2: I think the difference is I've had a lot of hackware during my last few wins. Fabrication played some part in that, and it's also a positive feedback loop to getting more hackware. Research and Access are extremely difficult without hacking the location of the exit, and I'm still not really a fan of terrain scanners (they're nice but I'd rather have solid sensors/interpreters and use hacking and manual exploration to work out my surroundings).
Fabricating just one or two extra vital parts will can pick up significant slack, I'm sure. I don't think the enemy speed adjustments would make much of a difference.
And it's true that flight units generally don't get much faster individually; they're instead balanced so that you get extra support (which approximately quadruples on average by the end of the game) for the same speed. The way to get faster is to attach more of them. This has always made more sense to me since otherwise it would be impossible to both fly and have the choice of carrying some of the late-game good stuff, or better armor.
It's a tough call, though maybe there could be two different varieties of flight units, one with better support, and one with worse support but better speed? Adding the latter would mean you could get an even faster build with fewer propulsion slots that might have to just stick to nothing but sensors and light everything, like you sometimes do. But then it would also divide the supply of flight units into two categories and possibly increase the difficulty of maintaining either build...
Quote from: zxc on June 15, 2016, 07:13:31 AM
All the way out? Not sure what you mean.
Sorry, all the way "out" meaning "outward"--you'd already reached the second cave area but didn't want to head for the end of the branch.
Spoiler
Quote from: zxc on June 15, 2016, 07:13:31 AM
The only problem is it can take forever to trigger them with flight.
If you don't have any alternative propulsion, you can also turn it all off and use core hover. (Yes, maybe slow, but if there's no one coming it's not a huge deal and you're more likely to get sucked in.)
Quote from: Kyzrati on June 15, 2016, 07:35:00 AM
Fabricating just one or two extra vital parts will can pick up significant slack, I'm sure. I don't think the enemy speed adjustments would make much of a difference.
Agreed here.
Quote from: Kyzrati on June 15, 2016, 07:35:00 AM
And it's true that flight units generally don't get much faster individually; they're instead balanced so that you get extra support (which approximately quadruples on average by the end of the game) for the same speed. The way to get faster is to attach more of them. This has always made more sense to me since otherwise it would be impossible to both fly and have the choice of carrying some of the late-game good stuff, or better armor.
Agreed here too. However, while the speed doesn't increase on individual units, the maintenance costs do. This makes lower tier units better for stacking to improve speed.
Quote from: Kyzrati on June 15, 2016, 07:35:00 AM
It's a tough call, though maybe there could be two different varieties of flight units, one with better support, and one with worse support but better speed? Adding the latter would mean you could get an even faster build with fewer propulsion slots that might have to just stick to nothing but sensors and light everything, like you sometimes do. But then it would also divide the supply of flight units into two categories and possibly increase the difficulty of maintaining either build...
Indeed, I dunno.
Quote from: Kyzrati on June 15, 2016, 07:35:00 AM
Quote from: zxc on June 15, 2016, 07:13:31 AM
All the way out? Not sure what you mean.
Sorry, all the way "out" meaning "outward"--you'd already reached the second cave area but didn't want to head for the end of the branch.
I haven't done a great deal of exploration.
Spoiler
My first time in the caves I approached Warlord but it was getting hot. I've got a well tuned sense for risk/reward as a result of playing countless hours of DCSS. I pick out the cleanest and most reliable path to victory, which means cutting straight to Research if I can and avoiding combat. The disadvantage is I miss out on exploring and learning more about the game. I need to fight this for the sake of fun and knowledge, but it's non-trivial to do so.
Quote from: Kyzrati on June 15, 2016, 07:35:00 AM
Spoiler
Quote from: zxc on June 15, 2016, 07:13:31 AM
The only problem is it can take forever to trigger them with flight.
If you don't have any alternative propulsion, you can also turn it all off and use core hover. (Yes, maybe slow, but if there's no one coming it's not a huge deal and you're more likely to get sucked in.)
Spoiler
I've done this before. The problem is that by turning off all propulsion you will likely take forever to move, even with a lightweight build. Hover is only about twice as likely to trigger traps as flight. Pretty much every time I want to trigger a chute trap involves my being chased by a horde of enemies or actually being fired upon, so I need to trigger the trap pronto.
edit: What if all flight units had the same maintenance costs and simply improved on other stats as you found better units? This was the change I thought you were making when you announced changes to flight.
Quote from: zxc on June 15, 2016, 07:50:15 AM
This makes lower tier units better for stacking to improve speed.
Good point, an observation with interesting implications... Technically high-tier flight can still stack speed fairly well, since with the extra support you can afford a heavier/better cooling system, for example, though that's not even necessary if you're traveling light in the first place, where low-tier will apparently do.
Quote from: zxc on June 15, 2016, 07:50:15 AM
I need to trigger the trap pronto.
Okay, well, don't worry about it since in Alpha 10 I'll add your dive key for you ;)
Quote from: zxc on June 15, 2016, 07:50:15 AM
edit: What if all flight units had the same maintenance costs and simply improved on other stats as you found better units? This was the change I thought you were making when you announced changes to flight.
Well I
mostly did that, by dropping all movement costs to the same values, because the biggest culprits making high-tier flight inordinately difficult to maintain (to the point of not being worth it) were those costs, since they would stack to ridiculous heights as you moved faster, up to 10-15 times per turn.
By maintenance I assume you mean upkeep, and those were left in because by the latter half of the game they only range from 2-3 instead of 1-2, a rather minor price to pay considering they'll give you 2x/3x/4x as much support, and you can use a small portion of that support to cover the costs incurred.
It's still possible to lower the upkeep a little bit, though the changes elsewhere were already quite drastic. If you compare overall energy/heat movement now to what it was before, it's gone down by a huge margin. I would think this is a strong contributing factor to flight being more reliable now, since you have to wait around to recover energy or dissipate heat less often, no?
I've got to say, the energy / heat costs (or upkeep, or maintenance) are a lot smaller now, certainly. Of course, overall speeds are also slower, which contribute as well. Perhaps it's the combination of fabrication + flight changes + caves which are resulting in an easier time for my style of play, then.
I would second the addition for the dive key for chute traps. I also agree with zxc on not letting chutes on the same level after you return to it from wastes. This can lead to a significant abuse of the fab system.
The main path to victory via complex has become significantly easier. As zxc pointed out, once you get the hackware snowball rolling, it's not that hard. Fabricate a bunch of sensors and you are good to go. The game feels completely different when you can reliably locate the exits. I felt like I could have won quite a few times, but I have been trying very hard to hit both data-miner and warlord in order to do the god-mode thingy. On an average, finding both of them involves hitting and exploring 3 full cave branches. Not so good for speed builds as you can run into some unavoidable nasty situations (such as spawning in front of a behemoth). Especially in lower caves. It can get rough down there as I usually don't have good sensors at that point.
Fabrication is in a good place now. I am curious to see how combat runs exploit fabrication. I think fabrication is worth it only when it is used to obtain something that provides long term value. Speed builds usually consist of very high quality, high impact parts like sensor arrays or fancy hackware that lasts into the late game. Combat builds are known for their churn rate. I wonder what they would fabricate? Launchers?
edit: Re high/mid-tier flight units: I actually prefer them to low tier ones despite their maintenance. The problem with low-tier ones is that they are made of paper and can be one-shotted away by many things. Propulsion is going to take the brunt of any incoming damage as speed builds are usually processor heavy.
Quote from: Sherlockkat on June 15, 2016, 10:30:47 AM
Combat builds are known for their churn rate. I wonder what they would fabricate? Launchers?
Allies :)
You have a point about integrity. That is usually how I wind up with lategame flight units - the better earlygame ones get blown off :P
edit: However, in all seriousness, the lategame flight units certainly are better than the earlygame ones. But there is an odd time in the game where new flight units jump up in maintenance costs for almost no gain. That is when I tend to notice the values.
I actually start migrating to better power cores pre-emptively in caves. This is to deal with the increasingly power hungry nature of the flight units. The samaritans run around with neutrino cores which are quite good. Also, hitting Zhirov should solve one of our two problems for good, either heat or power.
edit: I must say I haven't paid close attention the flight unit stats when it comes to upkeep. I usually pick up any good reactor in sight and assume that they will cover my flight costs later :p.
@zxc: Hehe.
Yeah, the jump is difficult to avoid for the same reason movement costs scaled too strongly earlier (and is also the reason I ended up going with a flat rate for movement rather than even a 1-point increase at some point)--too few values available without going to fractions (or changing the whole unit of upkeep, which would be too confusing).
The only way around it is to flatten upkeep as well, which I was considering but again wanted to see how the existing changes played out. Feels like it would be too effective if even the only once-per-turn costs were reduced. I like the idea of having to more closely manage resources as a flier, and that element would be essentially removed in the late game if it were changed further.
Quote from: zxc on June 13, 2016, 01:50:30 AM
Tiny thing that bugged me: I loaded up something to fabricate, then realised I didn't have my last hackware equipped. I exited the fabricator screen and put it on, and opened the fabricator up again. I had to start from scratch. This led to a full trace and other awkwardness. It would be nice if it didn't remove the schematic like that!
Some nice new additions coming to address this in Alpha 10: Once you load a schematic, it stays there forever, even if you start/finish building something (allowing easier repeat builds). Not only that, but some Fabricators will now be found with schematics
preloaded, allowing you to possibly build something for which you don't even have a schematic yet (especially useful if that happens to be a squad of friends :))
Neat :D