A lot of goodies have been added in Alpha 4, so I figured we should have a thread to discuss the new version.
I wonder if people will be trying out games in Alpha 4 before playing the weekly seed, or have the weekly seed be their first go at the new version. I'm undecided on which I'll go for yet.
Happy to hear what everyone thinks about the new stuff. A good many of the features came out of discussions here on the forums, while just as many are things I never brought up before. Plus, of course, secrets ::)
Note that some important changes we've discussed didn't make it into Alpha 4, notably Storage Unit hoarding (http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=289.0) and the propulsion mechanics overhaul (http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=274.0). (NOT to start those discussions again here--they've pretty much played out for now, just pointing them out. Although I would add that in this latest version my playtest combat Cogmind is nearing the surface and has never used anything but a single Hcp. unit, at most.*)
But yeah, let's focus on the new changelog :P. Lots of good stuff in there. Also, I'll be posting a design overview of Garrison Access machines on my blog tomorrow.
Edit: *I believe your new partial immunity to critical hits is a game changer in terms of attrition rate... so I guess this discussion does have some place here.
I prefer playing a little bit with the new Alpha 4, before playing the weekly seed. The game has a lot of good new feature so i'm gonna play a little bit before playing the weekly seed.
Btw I just beat my high score in my first play.
The ' and ; shortcuts are really nice :)
Game seems harder and more chaotic with garrisons and the infection scenarios that seem to happen sometimes.
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 07:28:41 AM
The ' and ; shortcuts are really nice :)
I'm glad the player who asked for them thinks so ;)
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 07:28:41 AM
with garrisons and the infection scenarios
Do you mean separately or together? As in the latter as it relates to Garrison Access machines, or in addition to garrisons themselves? That and do you mean
inside garrisons, or garrison access machines?
Overall I found Alpha 4 to be the easiest version yet, though I've probably played fewer runs than you have just yet. I have, however, encountered the infested version before, and thought it was pretty exciting :)
That said, I was hesitant to add that situation because, as you say, it can be quite chaotic and the design goal of the main complex is to
not be chaotic--that's the purpose served by some of the branches.
...
And now that I've looked at the data, it looks like Alpha 4 contains a rather serious oversight :/
That situation is supposed to be
extremely rare, but I surprisingly forgot two things there in my rush to finish Alpha 4: 1) Didn't apply the rarity at all, and 2) Special garrison access situations weren't even capped at one per floor, as intended, meaning most garrisons in the mid-game are being converted to this kind! Ouch.
Looks like I'll be putting together an Alpha 4b shortly. Like now :P
Thanks for bringing this to my attention! (Ignore my earlier questions...)
Alpha 4b is going to come with another bombshell of an improvement as well, based on a Twitter report from a couple days ago.
As you can see the new version has been released, thanks!
I've also updated the thread title, since any further discussion may as well continue here.
Quote from: Kyzrati on November 09, 2015, 07:57:55 AM
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 07:28:41 AM
The ' and ; shortcuts are really nice :)
I'm glad the player who asked for them thinks so ;)
;D
Edit: It's actually nicer than I originally thought it'd be, because when flying with a melee weapon you need to be careful not to hit robots when you intend to fly over them and vice versa. This hotkey makes it more convenient to turn off your melee weapon after you're done fighting without needing to be constantly aware of changing letter hotkeys for the melee weapon.
Quote from: Kyzrati on November 09, 2015, 07:57:55 AM
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 07:28:41 AM
with garrisons and the infection scenarios
Do you mean separately or together? As in the latter as it relates to Garrison Access machines, or in addition to garrisons themselves? That and do you mean inside garrisons, or garrison access machines?
My first decent-length game in Alpha 4 (second overall - first one ended in short order somewhere early), so I'm not really sure what I'm even referring to :)
Overall I found Alpha 4 to be the easiest version yet, though I've probably played fewer runs than you have just yet. I have, however, encountered the infested version before, and thought it was pretty exciting :)
I'm very happy to keep holding opposing views to you :). I actually haven't played very much - but you've probably noticed that I oscillate between playing/thinking about a game a ton (around first few wins and during tournament), and very little (the last several weeks). This is more a function of my internal gaming cycle and free time than anything else though :)
That said, I was hesitant to add that situation because, as you say, it can be quite chaotic and the design goal of the main complex is to not be chaotic--that's the purpose served by some of the branches.
Chaos can be really fun though (and if it's really rare, as below, I think this is quite an epic scenario). I wasn't complaining about the chaos, but rather just making an observation about it as I thought this level of chaos was normal for Alpha 4.
Quote from: Kyzrati on November 09, 2015, 07:57:55 AM
...
And now that I've looked at the data, it looks like Alpha 4 contains a rather serious oversight :/
That situation is supposed to be extremely rare, but I surprisingly forgot two things there in my rush to finish Alpha 4: 1) Didn't apply the rarity at all, and 2) Special garrison access situations weren't even capped at one per floor, as intended, meaning most garrisons in the mid-game are being converted to this kind! Ouch.
Looks like I'll be putting together an Alpha 4b shortly. Like now :P
Thanks for bringing this to my attention! (Ignore my earlier questions...)
Alpha 4b is going to come with another bombshell of an improvement as well, based on a Twitter report from a couple days ago.
Happy to accidentally prompt a bugfix! ;D
It was actually really fun and
hectic as a fast flyer without sensors. I think my take on it might've been a bit different had I gone down quickly, but this Cogmind's still kicking in -4 (it's actually the same one that prompted the whine thread about stasis traps - not sure how it isn't dead yet). I took this screenshot shortly after the trap to highlight an oddity with the exit placement (hopefully not the cause of Alpha 4c ::))
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/pwaKAQp.png)
This one's not even my weekly seed yet, so I'll need to hastily finish this one and the seed tomorrow night if I can :o
Edit: I just realised why I've stopped receiving email notifications about replies to certain topics recently. They've been going to my Gmail spam folder. Oh noes!
That accuracy bug is a BFD as Joe Biden would say. Very interested to see how the change plays out. It's funny how confirmation bias works. I try as much as I can to pop in/pop out of rooms when I see enemies coming to get the stationary accuracy bonus. I always assumed it was working but I guess not.
I have Wednesday off and the lady friend's out of town. Let's see if I can get a combat cogmind to the surface.
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 09:46:53 AM
Chaos can be really fun though (and if it's really rare, as below, I think this is quite an epic scenario). I wasn't complaining about the chaos, but rather just making an observation about it as I thought this level of chaos was normal for Alpha 4.
Yeah sorry, "complain" is generally a strong word, and I certainly didn't mean it that strongly. Should've found a better word or at least put it in quotes, but it was late and I was rushing the release =p
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 09:46:53 AM
Happy to accidentally prompt a bugfix! ;D
It was actually really fun and hectic as a fast flyer without sensors.
I found it pretty exciting myself, but in my longest playthrough just happened to not run by many mid-game garrisons access points, so I didn't even notice something was off. Now that I think of it I did meet two such access points in a relatively short period, which should be extremely unlikely.
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 09:46:53 AM
I took this screenshot shortly after the trap to highlight an oddity with the exit placement (hopefully not the cause of Alpha 4c ::)) Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/pwaKAQp.png)
Ugh, still. Certainly not a reason to bother with 4c, but not really intended, either.
Not sure where this one's still happening, but I've narrowed it down further because you reported a similar issue in 3c and I fixed one possible source of corridor stairs. (Actually, what's the seed on that run? I can trace those stairs to where they're coming from.)
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 09:46:53 AM
Edit: I just realised why I've stopped receiving email notifications about replies to certain topics recently. They've been going to my Gmail spam folder. Oh noes!
Yeah, this is suddenly a problem unfortunately, and it's even happening to me despite the fact that I always declare it not spam. Gmail of all places has now marked the gridsagegames forum as a source of spam :(. Wonderful... I was just yesterday looking at how to deal with this and there are no perfect solutions, only technical stuff that may or may not work, and all of which would take a bunch of time away from development while I try to figure it out. That sucks.
For now I'd hope that members can indicate that these things are not spam, since Gmail supposedly "learns" this over time...
Quote from: Happylisk on November 09, 2015, 11:12:01 AM
That accuracy bug is a BFD as Joe Biden would say. Very interested to see how the change plays out. It's funny how confirmation bias works. I try as much as I can to pop in/pop out of rooms when I see enemies coming to get the stationary accuracy bonus. I always assumed it was working but I guess not.
I'm glad it was discovered around now, which happens to be the perfect opportunity. My comment on Reddit is applicable here:
Quote
This could have some interesting implications...
I mean, the potential for accuracy bonuses via later Targeting Computers for example can now much more easily give you near-perfect accuracy (there's a cap at 95%). Even before this I didn't have much trouble reaching the cap, or otherwise very high accuracy. It might be necessary to nerf them a bit.
Either way, I'm for keeping the new/intended bonus as is--based on earlier data I was already considering an across-the-board improvement to Cogmind's base accuracy. Now I don't have to =p
Quote from: Happylisk on November 09, 2015, 11:12:01 AM
I have Wednesday off and the lady friend's out of town. Let's see if I can get a combat cogmind to the surface.
I'm going to post the garrisons overview today, so maybe they could play a role in your adventures. Or maybe not--they're kinda dangerous ;D
Small thing I noticed: using ; to toggle propulsion modes will activate Overloading on propulsion where possible, and will turn off all other propulsion when that happens. Is this intended? I don't think it's useful to activate overloading on some propulsion while spare propulsion is kept off.
Nope, good catch.
Internally the command works by simulating activation input for all active applicable parts, which for active but not overloaded propulsion means overloading it. Oops, I had forgotten that some propulsion can be overloaded--it will work as it currently does with weapons: Those which are overloadable are properly cycled off by continuing to feed activate commands until they're actually off.
(Garrisons and other new mechanics took so much time that I missed out on more in-depth playtesting opportunities for the latter few days of mini features, including this one.)
The seed for the weird exit was 1446661603. Run ended in death on -3. Ran around constantly looking for an exit but I found none, and ended up trapping myself and taking too much damage from programmers leading to eventual death.
Quote from: Kyzrati on November 09, 2015, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: zxc on November 09, 2015, 09:46:53 AM
Edit: I just realised why I've stopped receiving email notifications about replies to certain topics recently. They've been going to my Gmail spam folder. Oh noes!
Yeah, this is suddenly a problem unfortunately, and it's even happening to me despite the fact that I always declare it not spam. Gmail of all places has now marked the gridsagegames forum as a source of spam :(. Wonderful... I was just yesterday looking at how to deal with this and there are no perfect solutions, only technical stuff that may or may not work, and all of which would take a bunch of time away from development while I try to figure it out. That sucks.
For now I'd hope that members can indicate that these things are not spam, since Gmail supposedly "learns" this over time...
Good news--I talked with the host and it appears this might now be resolved :D
I'm not sure how long it will require to take effect, but outgoing mails should now be properly configured to make it past some new Gmail requirements.
I'm back!
After a long and grueling semester I'm finally giving Alpha 4 a go. I didn't get much time with Alpha 3 so the traps are still fresh for me.
Digging the Garrisons, but those Phase Walls confused me (I admit I had to read the blog to understand how they worked, as I found it a little confusing I couldn't pass through them even when a Grunt was holding it open for me. I presume I couldn't get through as I would be trapped if I did). I did find an exit, but couldn't use it. I presumed (at the time) I needed to destroy all the Garrison Relays to gain access, but was quickly overwhelmed after exploring a third quarter.
Didn't gain any benefits (yet!) for going into a Garrison, although I can't imagine that will stop me trying:) I believe I didn't go in with enough fire-power and the area goes completely counter to my hide-in-a-room/doorway-and-wait strategy. I was able to emulate it somewhat by creating a nook where a Garrison Relay used to be. Now that I understand the layout more it should be a little easier to handle (but certainly not easy!).
Hey jimmijamjams, welcome back!
Garrisons you really need to be prepared for, though as is there's no in-game way to know exactly what the ideal preparation entails without some experimentation on your part. Hints about that is something I'll want to add later (of course players can learn much of what they're about by reading the blog posts).
Overall there are lots of potential benefits to Garrisons, though nothing guaranteed (beyond the hacking advantage) so they're kinda like a lottery (unless you're going for those hacking benefits). If anything they're worth extra points--something to consider if you're in a good position on a given floor.
You
will need more firepower than you probably think :). I wanted that to be a key feature of Garrisons--you're not going to go racing and dodging through them. Confrontation is inevitable, as it should be. That said, you can still try your best to avoid attracting too much attention at once.
Spoiler
It's possible to force your way through Phase Walls, and getting out the same way also works, though theoretically you could get stuck in the corridors, yes, so make sure you have a reliable way out.
Since we don't have a general discussion thread, I'm just gonna stream of conscious here. These are my general thoughts about 4b. There are going to be spoilers below so read at your own peril.
Weapons: I'm a big fan of the changes to thermal and EM. Thermal weapons are worth picking up now and saving for programmers. EM weapons are no longer the king of looting processors, and spectrum is a fun double-edged sword. It can be really effective against packs of enemies, but it can be dangerous when it happens too close to you.
The new hacks: Trojan(Botnet) is basically a substitute for deep network scanners at the cost of raising the security level. I haven't played around with it too much, but it's very interesting. Trojan(Track) is less handy in my experience. In big factory levels, I don't really care what's going on way behind me. Force(Overload) is very interesting; I imagine this one will be best used to prepare ambushes (have to be careful with it - the first time I used it I hung around and fried myself). I don't really care about Force(Jam) too much, cause if I really want a Garrison disabled I just blow it up. I imagine it'll be a handier hack for stealth/speed builds.
Garrisons as Machines: Great addition. It severely hampers, but doesn't kill, the "use programmers to find the stairs" trick. It also taught me more about the mechanics of the game. I had map with a Garrison right next to a terminal. I tried to hack the terminal and got locked out. A grunt instantly popped out of the garrison to investigate. Although I knew that lockouts cause investigation squads to be dispatched, seeing it happen was quite jarring. I've significantly reduced how many times I'll allow myself to get locked out of a terminal. Another time, I was fighting some grunts in research near a Garrison and a sentry popped out. I imagine that was a Reinforcement squad. Seeing it happen up close helps you understand the game mechanics better.
Garrison as a map: Hooboy. High risk/reward indeed. I'm not sure how to incorporate them into a run to reliably get a benefit (besides the hack). As K said, you gotta be beefy just to go in there with a good chance of making it out. I really like that this is a new way to get allies without mucking around with fabricating. My tentative view on Garrisons is that if I've in a factory or research level, I haven't been on the level too long, and I'm in good shape, go in. There's a chance of going straight to the next level which is worth it. If you've already been on the level for awhile, chances are the exit is close so it's probably not worth it (and you're probably overdue for a drop in the security level, which the Garrison will certainly not do).
Unrelated thoughts on Alpha 5: Two of my runs in the last week ended on -2. In both runs, I artificially kept my inventory low. During the tournament, I usually had an inventory of 20-40. This time I intentionally limited myself to around 15. It really, really, really made things harder. My second run probably would have won if I had my full inventory, as opposed to leaving caches half looted. If changes are going to happen to push back against the huge inventory meta, I think they need to be balanced with 1) a further reduction of cogmind Armor to crit vulnerablity (you lose armor so fast, jesus) and 2) quality of life improvements to fabrication to make this easier and less tedious.
Finally, is Armory a new thing? In the tournament I never found it. My last 3 runs now have found the (locked) entrance to the Armory.
Quote from: Happylisk on November 17, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
Since we don't have a general discussion thread, I'm just gonna stream of conscious here. These are my general thoughts about 4b.
Wait... aren't you posting in the general discussion thread for 4/4b? :o
Overall it sounds like you're pleased with the direction and new features, so that's great.
EM is a lot more interesting now, nerfed but even more effective in some situations, as you've discovered.
More new hacks (all the rest of them) will be announced via blog post next week :D
Quote from: Happylisk on November 17, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
Garrisons as Machines: Great addition. It severely hampers, but doesn't kill, the "use programmers to find the stairs" trick. It also taught me more about the mechanics of the game.
I was expecting, and hoping, that would be the case. It was possible to figure that stuff out before, though not at all easy or likely since you'd have to use hacking to track squads and really see what was going on, but almost no one was doing that and therefore didn't associate the events. The plan has been to later allow NPCs to inform you of those less obvious mechanics, but for now Garrison Access does a good job of teaching them as well.
Quote from: Happylisk on November 17, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
My tentative view on Garrisons
Spot on; I agree with everything you say :)
Quote from: Happylisk on November 17, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
If changes are going to happen to push back against the huge inventory meta, I think they need to be balanced with 1) a further reduction of cogmind Armor to crit vulnerablity (you lose armor so fast, jesus) and 2) quality of life improvements to fabrication to make this easier and less tedious.
Maybe removing armor vulnerability to criticals would be fine (they've never been destroyed by them, just take double damage instead), at least for now to see what the result is. My fear is that armor would become too good if you stack enough of it, and everyone would want to do that to ensure survival... (I do want to eventually revisit fabrication as well, though I'm not sure the tedium there can be reduced much further than it already has been. A discussion for another time.)
Quote from: Happylisk on November 17, 2015, 06:58:54 AM
Finally, is Armory a new thing? In the tournament I never found it. My last 3 runs now have found the (locked) entrance to the Armory.
Not new, no. It's been there you've just apparently been randomly finding it more often. I'm pretty sure there's only one entrance, so it's easy to miss if you're not looking for it. It'll be locked for a while, though--need to do quite a few other branches first. I'll be working on Recycling and Extension next, for Alpha 5.
Had a run get to Access. So close to a win. It was my first time seriously using a long range terrain scanner and an advanced terrain scan processor. Holy moly. With those things factory and Research -3 were so damn easy. Like an idiot, I kept it on during a fight in Research -2 (even after thinking I should really take this off) and the scanner got blown off. Stumbling around Research -2 blind led to me getting to Access basically naked. I streaked around the level and found the exit (can't say whether it was the main one or the locked one) but died due to a string of swarmers on my ass before I could hack the doors open.
First time going into a Garrison during a serious run. I went in on Factory -6, found the exit quick, and it got me to Factory -5. Definitely going into more of them in the future.
Some Trojan questions: 1) When you Force(Overload) a fabricator, will enemies attack the machine? It seems like you want to overload fabricators in hallways rather than rooms, to zap enemy patrols as they come by. I'm wondering if the enemy will fight back. Also, are you on the hook threat level-wise for enemies the fabricator kills? 2) The Garrison trojans that either divert the enemy or reprogram them, do they effect programmer dispatches that happen to come from the infected Garrison?
I'm guessing good terrain scanning capability is generally underrated by most players. Very useful. My preferred way to navigate Research.
Quote from: Happylisk on November 24, 2015, 07:29:11 AM
1) When you Force(Overload) a terminal, will enemies attack the terminal?
No, but couldn't you just hack it and see? :P. Hallways are
sort of a good idea, yes, but you'll discover that's not necessarily true... Depends on the hallway and circumstances!
Quote from: Happylisk on November 24, 2015, 07:29:11 AM
2) The Garrison trojans that either divert the enemy or reprogram them, do they effect programmer dispatches that happen to come from the infected Garrison?
Good question--yes. They'll affect absolutely
anything that comes out, as long as that particular Garrison Access is the one that's infected. (As indicated on the blog, it only affects the next dispatch; didn't want that to escalate too much there...)
Quote from: Kyzrati on November 24, 2015, 07:38:41 AM
No, but couldn't you just hack it and see? :P.
Testing was inconclusive! I hacked one when enemies were next to me, and although they kept only shooting at me I couldn't tell if that was because they don't target overloaded fabricators or due to targetting priority.
I guess I could've overloaded one, and then popped into a nearby room with a robot scanner activated to see enemy behavior around an overloaded fab without a cogmind nearby, but that suspiciously sounded like a lot of work and I am very lazy :)
Haha, all true :)
Yet another random question: When's the earliest you could hack a schematic for a rating 5 item?
For non-prototypes*, the formula is
RATING < MAP_LEVEL + TERMINAL_FUNCTION_LEVEL - 1where MAP_LEVEL starts at 1 for -10/Materials, and TERMINAL_FUNCTION_LEVEL is equivalent to its security level.
(*For prototypes, add 1 to RATING.)So the answer depends on the terminal:
- -5/Factory for security level 1
- -6/Factory for security level 2
- -7/Factory for security level 3
Simply put, for the easiest terminals it will always be equivalent to the number of depths you've reached, but you can access them a floor or two early at better terminals.
While we're at it, the base chance to succeed is
45 - (RATING * 4)or (RATING * 7) for prototypes.
Dang. I found Regenerative Armor for the first time and was seriously considering mass producing some. The fact that this won't be too feasible until -5 puts a damper on things. Can't argue though, it's a good balance decision.
But seriously, regenerative armor kicks ass.
NERF INCOMING!
Just kidding, enjoy the armor :)
Also, I don't think you saw that part of my stream last week, but when I made it to Access--where I spent a quarter of the game--early on I discovered a stockpile of three awesome powered armors, which combined with my four power sources kept me in great shape for quite a while! I don't believe I've ever found the regenerative armors before, but you've got more games to your name than I do at this point :P.
I read over the garrison blog posts the other day: neat stuff.
I couldn't quite tell where the templates connected up on the full garrison map, so some helper lines in that image would be nice.
Oh, I didn't draw that in because it's written in the text--"quarters" refers to cutting the map into four equal parts, so being a square that's right down the middle on both axes.
Also see how the template example's top right corner is one-fourth of the large center room.
Oh! I see it now. I'd completely misinterpreted something, which made me view the central area piece as the exterior corner.
Quote from: Kyzrati on November 25, 2015, 09:00:57 AM
NERF INCOMING!
Just kidding, enjoy the armor :)
Also, I don't think you saw that part of my stream last week, but when I made it to Access--where I spent a quarter of the game--early on I discovered a stockpile of three awesome powered armors, which combined with my four power sources kept me in great shape for quite a while! I don't believe I've ever found the regenerative armors before, but you've got more games to your name than I do at this point :P.
I didn't see that part of your live but I watched the rest of it on Twitch. I love powered armor - possibly my fav armor on the game.
The reason you've never found regen armor is because it currently only spawns in storage - and I suspect only in a storage that you enter off -7. I did some experimentation today and confirmed that you can't hack a schematic for regenerative armor. Going forward, I'm going to hunt for storage on -7 more often. Also, for parts that don't have hackable schematics (i.e. branch only parts), would scanning them in a scanalyzer make fabricating them possible?
Quote from: Happylisk on November 27, 2015, 08:07:22 PM
The reason you've never found regen armor is because it currently only spawns in storage - and I suspect only in a storage that you enter off -7.
Oh, right. It's one of the special rare parts. Too many parts, I forget :)
There are several more types of rare armors, but that's the only one that can be found in game right now. I just checked to be sure, and it can theoretically appear in
any storage--it's not limited by depth. That's what makes storage so neat: it's got some really nice loot that is not depth-restricted, BUT entering it too early in the game can be pretty deadly due to the tighter confines and therefore higher density of encounters.
The chance of finding Lgt. Regenerative Plating is pretty low overall, so not something you can count on, either (4.5%, and only if that type of special room is generated--the same room can contain other powerful parts as well).
Quote from: Happylisk on November 27, 2015, 08:07:22 PM
Also, for parts that don't have hackable schematics (i.e. branch only parts), would scanning them in a scanalyzer make fabricating them possible?
Yep! That's one of the advantages of scanalyzers over hacking schematics, besides being an easier way to get schematics for a part you already have than hacking (the chance of success is greater).
Spoiler
The only class of parts in the game that cannot be scanalyzed for fabrication is alien technology, but you haven't seen any of that yet :P
(Of course you can't scan broken parts, and actually on looking at the code it also won't let you scan a deteriorating part.)
Potential big spoiler ahead
Spoiler
Like a really big spoiler
Spoiler
Not even kidding if I'm right it's a big spoiler
Spoiler
Abandon all hope ye who enter here
Spoiler
I'm pretty sure the secret to reducing the security level to zero in any given run is entering Waste and then leaving naked. I did some experimenting today trying to find the secret to zero security. On -6, after blowing plenty of stuff up, I entered a Garrison, blew plenty more stuff up, blew up 2 relays, and got 3 garrison interior comprised messages. I then exited the Garrison, landed back on -6, immediately went into Waste, left naked, checked the security level, and it said low security.
Kyzrati did say the trick to low security level was costly. Leaving Waste naked fits the bill. There's also a fluff explanation for this: the global AI would probably not be too threatened by something naked coming out of the trash heap.
I might be wrong, but I can't otherwise explain why it was low security after stomping all over a Garrison.
Quote from: Happylisk on November 30, 2015, 07:20:47 PM
Potential big spoiler ahead
Spoiler
Like a really big spoiler
Spoiler
Not even kidding if I'm right it's a big spoiler
Spoiler
Abandon all hope ye who enter here
Spoiler
I'm pretty sure the secret to reducing the security level to zero in any given run is entering Waste and then leaving naked. I did some experimenting today trying to find the secret to zero security. On -6, after blowing plenty of stuff up, I entered a Garrison, blew plenty more stuff up, blew up 2 relays, and got 3 garrison interior comprised messages. I then exited the Garrison, landed back on -6, immediately went into Waste, left naked, checked the security level, and it said low security.
Kyzrati did say the trick to low security level was costly. Leaving Waste naked fits the bill. There's also a fluff explanation for this: the global AI would probably not be too threatened by something naked coming out of the trash heap.
I might be wrong, but I can't otherwise explain why it was low security after stomping all over a Garrison.
To continue the
Spoiler
I can confirm that this has happened to me on one occasion although I didn't realise it was connected to being naked. In fact, I can add another
Spoiler
The first item I found was a set of Drone Bays. I was able to hide in a corner and search large sections of the map without my drones getting agro from hostiles.
Spoiler
I'm playing the Heavy Metal seed. I got in trouble on -5 for a long time (down to 30% health) and I had to fend off 4-7 ARCs that kept piling (I don't recall precisely). Alert level must have been high. I went down a chute and checked the alert level thereafter. Low security.
I don't think there is a connection to being naked to reset the security level. Even if there is, I believe that going down the chute has a big enough effect on its own that going naked is counter-productive.
Kyzrati, would you mind commenting on this topic?
Quote from: Decker on December 04, 2015, 09:40:28 PM
Kyzrati, would you mind commenting on this topic?
For a while I've been intentionally avoiding commenting on this particular topic to leave something for you guys to figure out :)
Multiple people have already started figuring it out, though, so I'll reveal it:
Spoiler
Yes, that is the secret to resetting the security level. Going naked is unnecessary overkill, however :P. Simply by ending up there they assume you've been dealt with by the Compactors.
Quote from: Kyzrati on December 04, 2015, 09:51:49 PM
Multiple people have already started figuring it out, though, so I'll reveal it: Spoiler
Yes, that is the secret to resetting the security level. Going naked is unnecessary overkill, however :P. Simply by ending up there they assume you've been dealt with by the Compactors.
Spoiler
Ah, good to know the naked part isn't necessary. I often leave Waste naked since I tend to drop everything once I enter, and if I don't get the mass-ally event, that stuff tends to stay dropped.
Going forward, it looks like a good move is to drop into Waste early on in either -5 or -4 with a strong launcher and extra matter containers. Late factory is where the alert level tends to spike, so it'd be nice to give it a reset.
Won my first game since the tournament. It wasn't the weekly seed, which I'll squeeze in next. Not sure where else to post this. Stealth game. Pretty easy until -2.
Made use of trojans. I like Track a lot, because it's very useful to help super-range sensors on a stealth build. Botnet seems a bit weak (diminishing returns) so I mainly stuck to one botnet per floor if I could. Assimilate is the best. My operator ally located hidden doors and traps immediately. Extremely strong.
I still feel quite rusty. I made only a couple of mistakes, but they were enough to really destroy my run. Somehow I stayed alive and scraped out the win.
Cogmind - Alpha 4b
Name: zzxc
---[ ESCAPED! ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9) 4500
Robots Destroyed (61) 305
Value Destroyed (1221) 1221
Prototype IDs (13) 260
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (2690) 2690
TOTAL SCORE: 8976
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 298/1600
Matter 210/300
Energy 49/50
System Corruption 14%
Temperature Cool (6)
Location Surface
Parts
-------
Power (2)
Propulsion (5)
Utility (16)
Weapon (2)
Inventory
-----------
Experimental Matter Compressor
Heavy Rocket Launcher
Improved Ion Engine
Peak State
------------
Power
Micro Nuclear Core
Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion
Improved Flight Unit
Xenon Bombardment Thruster
Electron Diverter
Impulse Thruster
Impulse Thruster
Utility
Advanced Sensor Array
Long-range Terrain Scanner
Improved Decoy Generator
Improved Connection Mask
Advanced ECM Suite
System Shield
Advanced Signal Interpreter
Decoy Generator
Experimental Transmission Jammer
Advanced Power Amplifier
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Improved Light Armor Plating
Advanced Overload Regulator
Weapon
Advanced Datajack
[Rating: 130]
Favorites
-----------
Power Micro Nuclear Core
Engine Light Ion Engine
Power Core Micro Nuclear Core
Reactor Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion Cesium-ion Thruster
Treads Durable Medium Treads
Wheel Centrium Wheel
Leg Aluminum Leg
Flight Unit Cesium-ion Thruster
Utility Deep Network Scanner
Device Advanced Sensor Array
Storage Medium Storage Unit
Processor Advanced Signal Interpreter
Hackware Deep Network Scanner
Protection Insulated Light Armor
Weapon Scythe
Energy Gun EM Pulse Gun
Launcher Micro-nuke Launcher
Special Weapon Improved Remote Datajack
Slashing Weapon Scythe
Special Melee Weapon Advanced Datajack
Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 10
Worker 11
Builder 3
Tunneler 2
Hauler 4
Recycler 9
Mechanic 2
Operator 1
Swarmer 20
Grunt 8
Sentry 1
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 13
Combat Bots Only 6
Matter Collected 1849
Salvage Created 2187
Parts Attached 118
Power 17
Propulsion 23
Utility 46
Weapon 32
Parts Lost 58
Power 8
Propulsion 17
Utility 24
Weapon 9
Average Slot Usage (%) 73
Naked Turns 5
Spaces Moved 8265
Fastest Speed (%) 769
Average Speed (%) 464
Slowest Speed (%) 20
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 24
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 55
Greatest Overweight (x) 16
Average Overweight (x) 1
Largest Inventory 8
Most Items Carried 8
Average Items Carried 4
Core Damage Taken 1812
Average Core Remaining (%) 84
Depth 10 End 83
Depth 9 End 74
Depth 8 End 92
Depth 7 End 100
Depth 6 End 100
Depth 5 End 100
Depth 4 End 100
Depth 3 End 86
Depth 2 End 90
Depth 1 End 18
Volleys Fired 84
Largest 2
Hottest 94
Shots Fired 116
Gun 69
Cannon 0
Launcher 46
Special 1
Kinetic 0
Thermal 29
Explosive 46
Electromagnetic 40
Shots Hit Robots 95
Core Hits 107
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 76
Impact 0
Slashing 74
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 5851
Projectiles 660
Explosions 3760
Melee 1340
Ramming 91
Kinetic 0
Thermal 273
Explosive 3743
Electromagnetic 404
Impact 0
Slashing 1340
Piercing 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 347
Shots 8
Rammed 24
Highest Temperature 396
Average Temperature 69
Shutdowns 1
Energy Bleed 2
Interference 1
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 14
Average Corruption 4
Message Errors 7
Parts Rejected 3
Data loss (map) 17
Data loss (database) 8
Misfires 0
Misdirections 8
Targeting Errors 1
Weapon Failures 0
Depth 3 End 1
Depth 2 End 6
Depth 1 End 14
Haulers Intercepted 4
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 0
Power Chain Reactions 0
Tactical Retreats 39
Communications Jammed 38
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 6
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 39
Terminals 31
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 2
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 2
Garrison Access 4
Machines Hacked 34
Terminals 29
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 1
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 1
Garrison Access 3
Total Hacks 128
Successful 37
Failed 91
Catastrophic 23
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 88
Unauthorized 63
Terminals 119
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 3
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 1
Garrison Access 5
Terminal Hacks 16
Record 1
Part Schematic 0
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 4
Open Door 0
Level Access Points 3
Branch Access Points 0
Emergency Access Points 1
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Garrison Index 0
Alert Level 0
Unreport Threat 0
Locate Traps 5
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 0
Sector Layout 2
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 47
Full Trace Events 2
Feedback Events 1
Feedback Corruption 1
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Garrisons Disabled 1
Garrisons Compromised 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 3
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 1
Part Repair Time 40
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 1
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 7
Largest Group 2
Highest-Rated Group 21
Highest-Rated Ally 21
Total Orders 6
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 6
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 1
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 217
Average Influence 47
Final Influence 15
Maximum Alert Level 1
Low Security (%) 98
Level 1 1
Level 2 0
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 17
Investigation 4
Extermination 4
Reinforcement 8
Assault 0
Garrison 1
Exploration Rate (%) 24
Regions Visited 12
Garrisons Visited 0
Relays Disabled 0
Generators Disabled 0
Turns Passed 4769
Depth 11 48
Depth 10 433
Depth 9 471
Depth 8 286
Depth 7 242
Depth 6 263
Depth 5 282
Depth 4 354
Depth 3 625
Depth 2 746
Depth 1 1019
Scrapyard 48
Materials 1179
Factory 1141
Research 1371
Access 1019
Mines 11
Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Flight Unit
Electron Diverter
Improved Q-Thruster
Advanced Plasma Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Heavy Fusion Cannon
Scatter Rocket Array
Mini Smartbomb Launcher
Improved Energy Well
Experimental Matter Compressor
Experimental Transmission Jammer
Advanced Power Amplifier
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Quantum Shading Machine
Dimensional Manipulator
Improved Quantum Shroud
Experimental Core Analyzer
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Advanced Overload Regulator
Improved Footprint Analyzer
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Game
------
Seed: 1450015007
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 204 min
Sessions: 3
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 20
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
X=8690371583532929566149654924
432443216462626216662512224666
246966925645625412496464432522
426644431469434654464623913952
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364444655565Going strong at -6.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BHXLZ1H.png)
-3 was no problem. Major issues on -2 being unable to find the stairs and programmers being a real pain.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/QsYj1sM.png)
Luckily the stairs were right there. I flew along behind the recycler to prevent the sentry from shooting me, so I reached the exit without taking a single hit.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/FPop1oC.png)
-1 just WRECKED me. I didn't take many screenshots because honestly I thought I was completely dead. All I had left was a single flight unit and an Adv ECM Suite that seemed to survive everything. Despite being pursued by programmers, swarmers and a ton of other baddies, I somehow got to the edge of the map and a quirk of the level chokepoints must've slowed down the swarmers, as I was able to barely outrun them with 35 delay movement (stopping occasionally to regen energy - no power source). I reached a secret passage on the outskirts of the map and activated my ECM suite for a single turn every 3 turns because I had no power source. Eventually I was satisfied that I lost them, but I had absolutely nothing. I began retracing my steps and dodging more fire from grunts, and picked up some items to slowly rebuild, where this screenshot was taken.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iSPndyC.png)
Major spoilers. Don't open unless you've won before.
Spoiler
Don't open unless you've won before. I mean it.
Spoiler
I went for the centre of the map, and my favourite method of locating the exit with sensors was impossible as I had no sensors. However, I did find the exit (while pursued by programmers and other baddies to the east). I had shot through this gate on my combat win so I thought a micro-nuke launcher could easily do it... but it did no damage and it just made the two behemoths really mad. I guess you have to kill them before you can destroy the gate.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/KfM7HiL.png)
The issue here was that I didn't have enough matter to blast through the side walls to reach the exit. I had to keep moving and trying to find matter, but things went wrong. I thought I'd try bodyslamming some programmers to gain matter but I was very far from the exit by this stage and too many enemies were nearby. I eventually had to bail. I was in a pretty terrible state after that. Exit is visible at the bottom-right.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/cE4p69b.png)
I found a recycler to ram, but enemies were tearing me up in the meantime. I got my matter payday though.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/4dD8ttG.png)
Carving my final path to the exit.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/80qSM4N.png)
I very nearly died. Is this the first streaker to ascend?
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/ZabMulO.png)
Wow, epic run zxc! Thanks for sharing, and yeah you're probably the first Cogmind to pull off such a close -1. Naked even :D
Damn you're good at stealth.
Spoiler
That blow-through-"that-particular-wall" strategy you used there will be even more difficult in future versions, because those brighter walls have been weaker against AoE weapons than intended. It's one of the things I fixed in Alpha 5. Only the most powerful launchers in the game will be able to pull that off, currently only one of which can be found.
Speaking of Alpha 5... I just finished playtesting a new combat change--reduced large volley time costs--and, oh man, I'm running 7 weapon slots at -5 and dishing out ownage left and right... I might need to tone it down a bit, not sure yet, but it's good enough to have some fun with in an alpha build 8)
Quote from: Kyzrati on December 14, 2015, 09:46:28 AM
Spoiler
That blow-through-"that-particular-wall" strategy you used there will be even more difficult in future versions, because those brighter walls have been weaker against AoE weapons than intended. It's one of the things I fixed in Alpha 5. Only the most powerful launchers in the game will be able to pull that off, currently only one of which can be found.
Spoiler
I am sad to hear that. All but two of my wins have used this method. My very first hacked the seal, but this was with the bugged 100 speed enemy movement so it was a lot easier back then. My combat win just blasted through the behemoths.
If you're taking a stealthy approach, taking on the behemoths is a no-go. And if you prevent that other strategy, that leaves only hacking the exit. This is very precarious, random, and time-costly considering that you have to reset the trace so many times, and all the while enemies are coming after you. And there is a chance you will get locked out of the terminal anyway, which would mean either you have to find that single rare launcher (probably impossible) or destroy the behemoths (close to impossible if you are a stealthy build at that late stage). I would advise reconsidering unless you are going to implement other ways to escape (or make the other two methods easier).
end of game semi-spoilers, beware!
The other two methods are easier than you might think. I could spoil it for you if you like, though maybe not :P. Your run post had a little bit of... misinformation in it. Also, out of curiosity: have you ever discovered the second way to get a terminal to open a locked door? Besides those, know that AoE weapons are not the most powerful in terms of concentrated fire--there is also currently one cannon powerful enough to punch through those walls, and the main reason there are only a few such weapons right now is that a larger number are going to appear in dedicated areas of the game which haven't been added yet, the point being that if you intend/hope to use that strategy, you can take a route that will allow you to amass some serious firepower. I can say no more on that ::)
Edit: Also, time for sleep, back for another day tomorrow...
Quote from: Kyzrati on December 14, 2015, 10:09:51 AM
end of game semi-spoilers, you others stay out!
The other two methods are easier than you might think. I could spoil it for you if you like, though maybe not :P. Your run post had a little bit of... misinformation in it. Also, out of curiosity: have you ever discovered the second way to get a terminal to open a locked door? Besides those, know that AoE weapons are not the most powerful in terms of concentrated fire--there is also currently one cannon powerful enough to punch through those walls, and the main reason there are only a few such weapons right now is that a larger number are going to appear in dedicated areas of the game which haven't been added yet, the point being that if you intend/hope to use that strategy, you can take a route that will allow you to amass some serious firepower. I can say no more on that ::)
Spoiler
Well taking on the behemoths with a battered stealth build at that stage (like my screenshot) would be close to impossible. You seem to be implying that destroying the behemoths was not a requirement for shooting through the gate. My combat run used cannons (shots that missed the behemoths tore down the walls) (edit: actually I don't think I had cannons - I was relying on the 10 rating kinetic weapons) (edit2: actually I think I switched to EM cannons for the behemoths). Maybe you can run straight in and shoot through the gate with a cannon, but I am not tempted to try such a risky experimental strategy when it's so difficult to reach that late stage - this is also why I've stuck to blasting the sides. There is also the risk of the cannon(s) being destroyed before the strategy can be pulled off, and also cannons require a lot of energy/matter so you need to be pretty well set up to pull this off, in which case you could probably hack the seal just as easily.
I went to a lot of trouble to get that strategy to work. Other runs I lacked the right launchers, and in this run I lacked matter and time. I've only done this strategy -really smoothly- about twice so far. If it's this hard, and the other methods are apparently easier than I think, then what is the purpose behind nerfing this strategy?
I don't know about a second way to open sealed doors. If it's been mentioned before I've forgotten it.
I would not want to enter a map to get weapons to employ this strategy as it sounds like hacking would then be the easier method. But I'll have to see. At some point I'll need to experiment more at the risk of losing otherwise winnable games. For some reason, I find this hard to do. I also take the path of least resistance in DCSS, as almost all my wins are 3-rune games.
Spoiler
Quote from: zxc on December 14, 2015, 10:25:41 AM
I went to a lot of trouble to get that strategy to work. Other runs I lacked the right launchers, and in this run I lacked matter and time. I've only done this strategy -really smoothly- about twice so far. If it's this hard, and the other methods are apparently easier than I think, then what is the purpose behind nerfing this strategy?
Well, technically it's not a nerf. That part of the game was broken and I only discovered it while working on Alpha 5 :P. The intention of so-called "barrier walls," brighter walls you see around sensitive areas, is that you'll be forced to employ a narrower range of specific tactics to access them, rather than simply having a launcher. I forgot to have AOE damage spread across terrain like it does robots, and launchers do a massive amount of total damage (
because it normally spreads), so that had to be fixed.
end game spoilerception!
And yes, you can blast through the Behemoth-guarded wall with a shot from pretty much any late-game cannon. It would certainly have been more risky in your beat up state by that point, yeah.
That said, It's likely I'll also be adding a completely new way to get that back door open in Access, one that wouldn't require hacking or serious firepower (and one that you might've been able to use in your situation). It's related to a new mechanic you'll see in Alpha 5. So don't worry, there will always be options. I like having as many options as possible :D (I just don't want any one of them to be the obvious easy way, e.g. blasting through the wall with any old launcher.)
Quote from: zxc on December 14, 2015, 10:25:41 AM
I don't know about a second way to open sealed doors. If it's been mentioned before I've forgotten it.
To my knowledge only one player has discovered it, and in the most coincidental of circumstances--it enabled them to win the game by accident. Even if you know about it it's not reliable, however, just a backup possibility.
Quote from: zxc on December 14, 2015, 10:25:41 AM
At some point I'll need to experiment more at the risk of losing otherwise winnable games. For some reason, I find this hard to do. I also take the path of least resistance in DCSS, as almost all my wins are 3-rune games.
I would not want to enter a map to get weapons to employ this strategy as it sounds like hacking would then be the easier method. But I'll have to see.
Oh I agree, that would be tough. I think it will continue becoming easier to explore alternative approaches to the late game, with Complex 0b10 difficulty generally trending downward with each new release.
Quote from: Kyzrati on December 14, 2015, 08:13:20 PM
Spoiler
Quote from: zxc on December 14, 2015, 10:25:41 AM
I went to a lot of trouble to get that strategy to work. Other runs I lacked the right launchers, and in this run I lacked matter and time. I've only done this strategy -really smoothly- about twice so far. If it's this hard, and the other methods are apparently easier than I think, then what is the purpose behind nerfing this strategy?
Well, technically it's not a nerf. That part of the game was broken and I only discovered it while working on Alpha 5 :P. The intention of so-called "barrier walls," brighter walls you see around sensitive areas, is that you'll be forced to employ a narrower range of specific tactics to access them, rather than simply having a launcher. I forgot to have AOE damage spread across terrain like it does robots, and launchers do a massive amount of total damage (
because it normally spreads), so that had to be fixed.
end game spoilerception!
And yes, you can blast through the Behemoth-guarded wall with a shot from pretty much any late-game cannon. It would certainly have been more risky in your beat up state by that point, yeah.
That said, It's likely I'll also be adding a completely new way to get that back door open in Access, one that wouldn't require hacking or serious firepower (and one that you might've been able to use in your situation). It's related to a new mechanic you'll see in Alpha 5. So don't worry, there will always be options. I like having as many options as possible :D (I just don't want any one of them to be the obvious easy way, e.g. blasting through the wall with any old launcher.)
Quote from: zxc on December 14, 2015, 10:25:41 AM
I don't know about a second way to open sealed doors. If it's been mentioned before I've forgotten it.
To my knowledge only one player has discovered it, and in the most coincidental of circumstances--it enabled them to win the game by accident. Even if you know about it it's not reliable, however, just a backup possibility.
Quote from: zxc on December 14, 2015, 10:25:41 AM
At some point I'll need to experiment more at the risk of losing otherwise winnable games. For some reason, I find this hard to do. I also take the path of least resistance in DCSS, as almost all my wins are 3-rune games.
I would not want to enter a map to get weapons to employ this strategy as it sounds like hacking would then be the easier method. But I'll have to see.
Oh I agree, that would be tough. I think it will continue becoming easier to explore alternative approaches to the late game, with Complex 0b10 difficulty generally trending downward with each new release.
Spoiler
This all sounds good. I think I need to experiment more with the seals in Storage.
Spoiler
I did note that 'any old launcher' didn't do the trick. You need a half decent one to get through those walls.
Quote from: zxc on December 14, 2015, 08:36:57 PM
I did note that 'any old launcher' didn't do the trick. You need a half decent one to get through those walls.
Well, depends on how quickly you want to do it, because damage is random over a range. Technically (in Alpha 4, anyway) that particular wall can be taken down even with something as early as a rating 4 Hvy. Rocket Launcher. For a guaranteed 1-2 volley take-down, you'd need something around a rating 7-8 level or above.
(And with these I'm referring to EX launchers; EM aren't powerful enough.)
So yeah, a standard Grenade Launcher isn't going to cut it; still, I was exaggerating just a bit with "any old launcher" :P