Topic: Alpha 12 Discussion/Feedback (spoiler-free) (Read 8143 times)

Kyzrati · « **on:** November 21, 2016, 06:50:04 PM »

Here's the place for general spoiler-free feedback and discussion about the most recent release, if you want to talk about something that you don't feel warrants a dedicated thread.

Alpha 12 release notes and changelog.

If you want to freely talk about spoiler content without the annoyance of spoiler tags, there's a thread for that

. Note that it's fine to talk about spoilers here as well (if perhaps they're only a small part of what you have to say), just tag them appropriately.

Happylisk · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2016, 01:36:32 PM »

Very excited about the damage overflow mechanic. Time to try out massed thermal cannon volleys - takes advantage of the overflow mechanic, can melt enemies, programmers are extra weak to it, and only savior class robots resist it (ie who cares). As long as you can manage heat and live with melting potential salvage, could be strong strategy.

Shadowfury333 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2016, 03:00:03 PM »

I've only had one run so far (and it's still in progress at -8 Mat, so I haven't played much), but the robot scan data immediately stuck out as a positive. As in, in the course of using it (because it's there) I discovered Pests are weak to Explosive damage (assuming I'm reading it right), and so realized I could just dispatch 2 groups in one turn each (one in -10 Mines and one in -9 Mat) with a Grenade Launcher, rather than grinding away as I normally do with lasers and rifles. I've also been finding fights in general taking a bit less time than before, so I guess damage overflow is doing its job, but that's hard to say for sure.

On the other hand, I've also been getting kinda lucky in some ways, like finding 3 Cesium-Ion Thrusters right at the start of -8 Mat after winning a fight through reactor detonation on -9 Mat and losing all of my equipment save for my utilities (except for the Weight Redist. Unit).

Kyzrati · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2016, 07:05:25 PM »

Thermal volleys are going to be way more effective now. I was having fun with them before, but can't wait to get in on that action in this version

@Shadowfury333: Yeah Swarmers are quite easy if you only have explosives, which is why it's always a good idea to carry a spare, if anything just for them! The next best approach is to immediately retreat to a bottleneck--only fight them in the open if there's no cover nearby and you have lots and lots of weapons + accurate targeting.

Overall I think the drops are going to feel luckier in Alpha 12, since I reduced the distribution of some non-essential utilities, meaning they'll be replaced by more useful stuff.

Shadowfury333 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2016, 02:04:46 PM »

At this point the run is at -6 Caves, and I've been finding that the drops are definitely improved from earlier runs (to the point where I'm still wondering if it's been carrying me. My v10 and v11 runs got out of materials twice, and barely, usually they ended at -9 Mat. This time I've gone through -9 Mines, -8 Storage, and now I'm in -6 Caves). However, I haven't been lucky with power core drops, which was a complication for my 4 Cld. VTOL Modules.

Kyzrati · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2016, 07:26:38 PM »

Power is generally going to be a little less common to see lying around compared to other parts--the best way to get it is from other robots. 4x Cld is nice

zxc · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2016, 09:47:55 PM »

Power slots seem slightly weaker than before due to the processor upkeep change. I'm getting by with 2x power with flight lategame. I think 3x power would require at least one flight array to sustain, and you'd need to be using a lot of energy intensive utilities to make it worthwhile.

I am really feeling the changes to item generation. It's easier to find nice things.

Flight propulsion changes are mostly subtle but have really mixed up the support/heat/energy/speed balance. Going to take a while to get a good handle on it now, combined with the processor change. Higher speeds are much more viable now than before. I'm currently cruising around in Research branches with constant 12 move delay.

Shadowfury333 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2016, 11:00:33 AM »

Quote from: Kyzrati on November 24, 2016, 07:26:38 PM

Power is generally going to be a little less common to see lying around compared to other parts--the best way to get it is from other robots. 4x Cld is nice

Yeah, I ended up just blowing up a couple high-level defenders for my power cores. Thankfully I had armour (which seems odd for a somewhat stealthy build, but it paid off).

Also, it was 6x Cld VTOL off a group of prototypes, I just couldn't carry it all.

Happylisk · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2016, 07:15:53 PM »

Cannons are much, much better. Love the change. Game is definitely easier without being too easy. I started getting cocky in -4 and 6 hunters put me in my place.

I think the new heat changes need some tinkering. I bumped into some friends in Waste, and a few of them just started randomly overheating.

Kyzrati · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2016, 07:23:01 PM »

Were they being shot, or overheating on their own? (So this was while still in Waste, eh?) It's possible that Mutants in particular may not always have enough dissipation to survive sustained firefights, because their builds are somewhat randomized. I didn't originally care to make sure that all possible Mutant/randomized builds don't overheat under normal conditions, but I'll look at that bit again.

Other robots are balanced because they have static loadouts, and can only be overheated if they lose heat sinks or are attacked with thermal weapons.

Another likelihood is that a group of thermal-equipped allies (especially Firemen!) could accidentally burn up their friends due to inaccurate shots when fighting in close quarters--they tend to shoot each other a lot when they're bunched up like that

Happylisk · « **Reply #10 on:** November 27, 2016, 06:52:12 AM »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kyzrati · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2016, 06:55:16 AM »

Ah I see. No, no screenshot necessary. Probably just a mutant or something overheating, and I have an automated system that can tell me which robot variants and designs are imbalanced. I assumed it would be impossible unless they were in battle, but obviously that's not the case

. Either way, I'll get back to checking them. I ran out of time since all these new heat transfer mechanics were being added in literally just days before the release, so there wasn't enough time to fully test some of the outliers! (Thanks for letting me know!)

Shadowfury333 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2016, 06:48:29 PM »

Well, that run ended poorly. Stupid interminable cave systems.

Draco18s · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2016, 01:05:04 PM »

Quote from: Shadowfury333 on November 27, 2016, 06:48:29 PM

Well, that run ended poorly. Stupid interminable cave systems.

Yeah just did a run that I think went through caves. Man, that is a nasty place to fight things. When I finally made it out I think I was down to:
- 1 power
- 0 propulsion
- medium storage unit
- mini grenade launcher

* Draco18s checks the score file

Yeah, Lower Caves (-7)
My "peak sate" I'm pretty sure is from just before I entered the caves....ah, no, was after. I can tell because of the Improved Titanium Leg floating in my inventory space. I died (with no power cores and almost no remaining weapons; damn melee bastard) carrying that leg.

Kyzrati · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2016, 05:36:14 PM »

Spoiler: Hot Tip (click to show/hide)

Shadowfury333 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2016, 09:13:43 PM »

My main mistake was not realizing that the Beast was appropriately named. After that it was just running into Arc after Arc and lacking the tools to manage it.

I'm guessing the rewards in question (which I did get) are on a per-run basis.

Kyzrati · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2016, 09:45:56 PM »

Well, except for long-term gains in lore and other knowledge that those areas provide, certainly the in-game benefits are per-run only, in true roguelike fashion

CaptainWinky · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2016, 01:00:50 PM »

I bought this back around the first alpha, but at the time I had a lot of other games to play and little time in which to play any of them, so Cogmind ended up on the back burner. A couple weeks ago I came back to it, and man am I glad I did! It's really refreshing to play a roguelike in an original sci-fi setting, and the unique approach to equipment and combat makes for some fun and sometimes hilarious battles. Having to plan for spare parts, core coverage, heat and matter management, etc. is an interesting form of resource management.

I watched Kyzrati's recent seeded run streams and learned a lot from his strategies. Managed to do an extreme stealth build with 6 flight units and some hackware and maneuvering thrusters that got within sight of the exit. Unfortunately I got wrecked there because

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Today I had a decent combat run that started to go bad as I lost literally every ranged weapon I had and had to eliminate the last few of my attackers with a power sword while they shredded my core. With 50 core remaining, I made it to a side area with an important NPC but doomed myself by trying to bump into him to talk to him while I still had that power sword equipped. He reacted as you would expect and I died quickly. Once I realized what had happened I bust out laughing. Hey, at least I got more lore.

Happylisk · « **Reply #18 on:** December 13, 2016, 09:22:43 AM »

Had some time to seriously play a few days ago. Got to Access with a pure combat build. Due to my belief that the mid-game branches are not currently worth it, I used a signal interpreter to make sure I only went through the main complex. Worked like a charm. Died in access primarily due to the lack of a good launcher.

While the game is much easier now, I'd be careful with overcorrecting. I never got hit with an assault squad or significant disruption message, which is clearly not right. On the other hand, in alpha 11 I was getting hit with them as early as -6 and they kept coming and it was just brutal. There's a happy medium between the two.

Kyzrati · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2016, 11:18:51 PM »

@CaptainWinky: Welcome, and that's a very nice job so far

. We're in the middle of a slightly easier release (12), so learn what you can now before it gets somewhat more difficult again! (By the way, I don't have you registered for your forum badge--check your original download email for a link to the simple form if you'd like!)

Quote from: Happylisk on December 13, 2016, 09:22:43 AM

Had some time to seriously play a few days ago. Got to Access with a pure combat build. Due to my belief that the mid-game branches are not currently worth it, I used a signal interpreter to make sure I only went through the main complex. Worked like a charm.

The world has changed a good bit since you were playing more regularly, so the mid-game branches have some useful benefits that play out elsewhere in the world, assuming you're trying for some of the more lore-related runs. Every branch is very useful (in some cases ensuring an easier late-game)--Zion, however, is currently hit or miss, something that will change in Alpha 13.

Going straight up is a good idea, too, although right now it's extra effective only because the alert level was overnerfed. Normally ducking into side branches would help deal with that.

I intended to lower the difficulty from Alpha 11, but went overboard with a change to one of the key values (which I'd never actually modified before and actually didn't realize just how key it was

). 13 will be between the two, yep.

Shadowfury333 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 14, 2016, 08:49:03 AM »

Quote from: Kyzrati on December 13, 2016, 11:18:51 PM

I intended to lower the difficulty from Alpha 11, but went overboard with a change to one of the key values (which I'd never actually modified before and actually didn't realize just how key it was ).

What value was that? The main thing I noticed was the relative increase in useful items, because several utilities were pulled together to avoid cruft, but that doesn't seem like a "value" exactly.

Kyzrati · « **Reply #21 on:** December 14, 2016, 05:45:01 PM »

Yeah I mentioned the "useful items redistribution" in the release notes. That would amount to a lot of value adjustments

What I'm talking about here with regards to difficulty is alert level adjustments, as that system is one of the most important factors in long-term difficulty. It's now practically impossible to get up to max security even if you trash the place, whereas before it was a lot more sensitive. As for the value, if I could be more specific I would have been, but... it's a secret

Happylisk · « **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2016, 07:37:02 AM »

If I had to guess, the variable he tweaked is "how pissed Main.C gets for each enemy combat robot destroyed."

Shadowfury333 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2016, 02:15:21 PM »

Oh, okay. I hadn't noticed in my own play, but it did seem odd on your last stream how you weren't as overwhelmed going ham in a12 as I've been in a11 from just trying to back off and defend myself from the odd patrol in, while generally avoiding things.

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Author Topic: Alpha 12 Discussion/Feedback (spoiler-free) (Read 8143 times)