Alpha 11 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]

Decker · October 30, 2016, 11:03:53 AM

I attempted to determine what makes the deadliest glass cannon combat build. I started as a stealth build, got myself 5 advanced hacking suites and a system shield, and got to work. I didn't manage to fab as much as I wanted, but I still got the gist of it. The fundamental of the build is two heavy flak cannons, plus a lot of target analyzers to pump up the crit rate, and some targetting computers to hit more. The flaks deliver 6 projectiles each, and the target analyzers bring the crit rate north of 50%. The odds of one of the 12 projectiles critting the core are high.

Spoiler

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While it's not a sustainable build (you can't replace the flaks), it works rather well against normal robots. It fails completely against behemoths and special robots. I got stripped against Alpha 8, even though I had the last word. When Kyzrati says Behemoths and co are immune to crits, he means it. It wouldn't be so bad if only the core was immune to crits, but all their equipment is too.

I noticed experimentally that weapon cyclers perform even better than you'd think. Whether you pick the advanced version or the experimental version does not matter. You hit the 50% cap anyway. Rather amazingly, a second cycler has increasing returns. The firepower increases are respectively 33% and 100%. In practice it works even better because you can get 2 volleys out by the time the enemy gets one.

I'll try pumping core analyzers next. If you get >50% proccing odds, it should work pretty well against all enemies combined with big guns and weapon cyclers.

Decker · October 30, 2016, 11:07:43 AM

Forgot to add, the big problem with that kind of build is that it's unbearable to play. Every time you shoot, you have to deactivate/reactivate 6 propulsions and 10 utilities.

Kyzrati · October 30, 2016, 06:36:22 PM

Quote from: Decker on October 30, 2016, 11:07:43 AM
Forgot to add, the big problem with that kind of build is that it's unbearable to play. Every time you shoot, you have to deactivate/reactivate 6 propulsions and 10 utilities.

Propulsion is pretty easy with the toggle key. As for the utility side, there are significant changes you will appreciate in Alpha 12.

Also, I just buffed all Flak weapons yesterday--damage is going up, matter use is coming down a bit. (So that would've been even more effective, but yeah, still not going to be good against hardened targets.)

rumpel · November 11, 2016, 05:59:53 PM

So I just enjoyed a nice round. I still don't really know a lot and mostly just shoot around (hell, I had super fun with 3 EMP blasters, lol) but got pretty far compared to my other games. I died pretty unexpected: I hacked a terminal and didn't pay attention - I got detected and they dispatched a squad that TOTALLY cornered an destroyed me. I felt pretty unkillable before. :x

Lots of fun!

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 11

Name: rumpel

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (2) 1000
Robots Destroyed (145) 725
Value Destroyed (5119) 5119
Prototype IDs (10) 200
Alien Tech Recovered (0) 0
Bonus (0) 0
TOTAL SCORE: 7044

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/550
Matter 186/300
Energy 319/320
System Corruption 6%
Temperature Hot (221)
Location -8/Storage

Parts
-------
Power (2)
F-Cell Engine
Propulsion (3)
(None)
Utility (3)
(None)
Weapon (3)
(None)
Inventory (4)
F-Cell Engine

Peak State
------------
Power
F-Cell Engine
F-Cell Engine
Propulsion
Aluminum Leg
Carbon-fiber Leg
Carbon-fiber Leg
Utility
Improved Heat Sink
Improved Heat Sink
Remote Shield Generator
Weapon
Improved Assault Rifle
Enhanced Autogun
Enhanced Autogun
Inventory
F-Cell Engine
Particle Gun
Heavy Laser
[Rating: 42]

Favorites
-----------
Power Deuterium Engine
Engine Deuterium Engine
Power Core Light Nuclear Core
Propulsion Flight Unit
Treads Light Treads
Wheel Wheel
Leg Aluminum Leg
Hover Unit Hover Unit
Flight Unit Flight Unit
Utility Visual Processing Unit
Device Improved Heat Sink
Storage Medium Matter Storage Unit
Processor Visual Processing Unit
Protection Improved Power Shielding
Weapon Assault Cannon
Energy Gun EM Pulse Gun
Energy Cannon Advanced Beam Cannon
Ballistic Gun Heavy Assault Rifle
Ballistic Cannon Assault Cannon
Launcher Advanced EMP Blaster
Impact Weapon Shock Maul

Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown 0
Classes Destroyed 14
Worker 11
Builder 9
Tunneler 2
Hauler 4
Recycler 4
Operator 3
Watcher 10
Swarmer 15
Grunt 60
Brawler 2
Duelist 3
Protector 1
Sentry 19
Hunter 2
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 13
Combat Bots Only 8
Matter Collected 2532
Salvage Created 5013
Parts Attached 110
Power 21
Propulsion 26
Utility 24
Weapon 39
Parts Lost 53
Power 6
Propulsion 14
Utility 11
Weapon 22
Average Slot Usage (%) 90
Naked Turns 3
Spaces Moved 2625
Fastest Speed (%) 200
Average Speed (%) 79
Slowest Speed (%) 34
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 1
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Heaviest Build 44
Greatest Support 65
Greatest Overweight (x) 11
Average Overweight (x) 1
Largest Inventory 4
Average Capacity 4
Most Items Carried 4
Average Items Carried 2
Final Capacity 8
Final Carried 2
Core Damage Taken 908
Average Core Remaining (%) 63
Depth 11 Exit 100
Depth 10 Exit 35
Depth 9 Exit 54
Volleys Fired 270
Largest 3
Hottest 168
Shots Fired 625
Gun 365
Cannon 179
Launcher 81
Special 0
Kinetic 317
Thermal 177
Explosive 24
Electromagnetic 107
Shots Hit Robots 291
Core Hits 233
Critical Hits 14
Kills 6
Parts Destroyed 8
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 6
Impact 6
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 10306
Projectiles 5442
Explosions 4702
Melee 162
Ramming 0
Kinetic 3179
Thermal 2102
Explosive 1716
Electromagnetic 3147
Impact 162
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 712
Shots 29
Rammed 1
Highest Temperature 390
Average Temperature 69
Shutdowns 1
Energy Bleed 0
Interference 0
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 1
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 6
Average Corruption 5
Message Errors 3
Parts Rejected 0
Data loss (map) 11
Data loss (database) 3
Misfires 0
Misdirections 1
Targeting Errors 11
Weapon Failures 1
Haulers Intercepted 4
Robots Corrupted 3
Robots Melted 0
Power Chain Reactions 13
Tactical Retreats 7
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 5
Indirectly 2
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 220
Machines Disabled 24
Data Cores Recovered 1
Used 0
Machines Hacked 13
Terminals 11
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 1
Recycling Units 1
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Total Hacks 38
Successful 23
Failed 15
Catastrophic 1
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 0
Unauthorized 0
Terminals 30
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 4
Recycling Units 4
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Terminal Hacks 17
Record 7
Open Door 1
Alert Level 3
Unreport Threat 1
Dispatch Records 1
Hauler Manifests 1
Machine Controls 3
Hacking Detections 10
Full Trace Events 3
Feedback Events 0
Feedback Corruption 0
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Trojans Installed 0
Terminals 0
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Fabricators Overloaded 0
Garrisons Disabled 2
Garrisons Compromised 0
Fab Network Shutdowns 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 1
Part Repair Time 26
Parts Recycled 1
Recycled Matter 68
Retrieved Matter 0
Retrieved Components 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 0
Largest Group 0
Highest-Rated Group 0
Highest-Rated Ally 0
Total Orders 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 1508
Average Influence 472
Final Influence 1448
Maximum Alert Level 4
Low Security (%) 24
Level 1 37
Level 2 19
Level 3 3
Level 4 15
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 19
Investigation 4
Extermination 0
Reinforcement 10
Assault 3
Garrison 2
Intercept 0
Derelict Logs Recovered 0
Exploration Rate (%) 44
Regions Visited 6
Pre-discovered Areas 0
Garrisons Visited 0
Relays Disabled 0
Generators Disabled 0
Network Hubs Disabled 0
Actions Taken 3265
Turns Passed 4695
Depth 11 63
Depth 10 811
Depth 9 1210
Depth 8 2611
Scrapyard 63
Materials 2941
Mines 456
Storage 1235

Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Ion Engine
F-Cell Engine
Improved VTOL Module
Advanced Beam Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Enhanced Autogun
Advanced EMP Blaster
Shock Maul

Fabricated
------------
Nothing

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials (discovered 2 exits: *Mat / [*Min])
-9/Mines
-8/Materials (discovered 2 exits: [*Fac] / *Sto)
-8/Storage (discovered 1 exit: [*Fac])

Game
------
Seed: 1478907378
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 76 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 1
Lore%: 2
Gallery%: 7
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 0
Movement: Mouse
Fullscreen: 0
Font: 14/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Fade In

X=9792984727344711518891648524
196451618598888818628428112998
916998265165999685816156526958
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588962125462498661891868856118
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111155815216295665641156411185
561515166161898188211581889688
487

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Kyzrati · November 11, 2016, 06:07:41 PM

Whoa, 7k score on only 2 evolutions? That's impressive!

3 EMP Blasters is certainly one way to totally dominate the early game

Happylisk · November 15, 2016, 07:04:34 AM

Had a silly run where I managed to get to Testing again. Even after finding a few cool toys I still got torn to shreds in there.

With the acknowledgment that I am not the world's best gamer and that combat mode is hard mode in Cogmind, I think the branch difficulties in cogmind need tweaking. Unless you have a perfect build, you are going to come out of any caves run in much worse shape than when you came in as a combat build. Extension and from what I'm so far seen Testing are likewise brutal. I understand that branches are supposed to be a high risk/reward scenarios, but the risks are really, really high and the rewards for the mid-game branches are not exactly breathtaking. Every time I limp out of Zion, DM, or Zhirov with a combat build I always think to myself "well that wasn't worth it." (Warlord has a great reward but getting out of that branch alive with a slow moving combat build is a feat unto itself). I'm sure that's not the feeling you're shooting for.

I've done branch runs with stealth builds the few times I've played stealth and it's of course infinitely easier. But for players like me who have a strong preference for combat builds, visiting large swathes of the game feels like a suboptimal decision.

Even if you think this a legitimate point, I'm not sure what the solution is. Decreasing the branch difficulty or increasing the rewards helps stealth/hacker runs who need no help. Further buffs to combat builds will make non-branch combat runs too easy (they're in a good place as is).

One possibility is adding things to the Caves that would only be of use to a combat build, such as the occasional cache of heavy armor/weaponry/treads. Not of much use to a stealth build, a godsend to a beat up combat cog. Another possibility is adding the chance for a fabricator with a finite number of matter in Zion. It would make runs where DM was on -7 and Zion with a fabricator on -6 very, very satisfying.

Kyzrati · November 15, 2016, 07:20:36 AM

I think you'll find Alphas 12-14 will be somewhat different in that regard. We're only now moving into balance territory, and part of the issue is you were gone for a number of Alphas during which the game kept getting easier, but then suddenly it got more deadly in 11 when I went a tiny bit overboard clamping down on farming

Each type of branch still has some tweaking to go: Caves/Mines will be getting more content (they're technically still incomplete) and MAIN.C-controlled branches will be getting a little easier, because their primary difficulty for combat runs stems from the recent alert level changes that are going to be scaled back.

(That said, I don't find caves to be difficult as is, and I only run combat. But I also tend to stay away from danger as best possible, and use other cave-appropriate tactics like always fighting up in robots' faces and grabbing stuff as soon as one goes down if my inventory isn't already full!)

zxc · November 15, 2016, 08:19:05 AM

Can slow down / reduce self-destruction of items in the caves, which would mainly help combat builds.

Happylisk · November 15, 2016, 08:21:24 AM

I like that suggestion. Item destruction can be mitigated by EM weapons or adjacent combat. Sometimes neither is an option.

E: you can also make how long it takes an item to go poof depend on integrity. Processors and devices go poof the quickest. Then things like legs and guns. Cannons, armor, and treads could take the longest to self-destruct.

Kyzrati · November 15, 2016, 09:29:53 AM

It'll be considered if necessary--I like how the idea works mostly to help combat but not flight. Might be premature at this point due to planned updates to cave content, and Cogmind is already going to get more powerful again in Alpha 12.

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Alpha 11 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]