Grid Sage Forums

Grid Sage Forums

  • November 25, 2024, 05:07:48 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

LINKS: Website | Steam | Wiki

Author Topic: Key bindings for equipment management  (Read 5729 times)

infectedm

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Supported Cogmind Alpha Access 2015-2017 (Prime Tier)
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Key bindings for equipment management
« on: May 20, 2015, 04:42:57 PM »

Maybe it' just personal preference, but for me the shift/ctrl/alt + number/letter combinations for attaching, removing and dropping equipment feel a little bit unnatural (using keyboard mode).
When I'm thinking "ok, let's remove component D and attach component 4 instead", I would rather press r, d, a, 4, instead of alt+d, ctrl+4. The two reasons for this are:
1. because I find it much harder to memorize something like "alt = remove, ctrl = attach" than "r = remove, a = attach" and
2. because some combinations (e.g. ctrl+I) are only possible using both hands and I don't want to take my right hand off the numpad :)
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4479
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Key bindings for equipment management
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 03:44:27 AM »

Hm, I'll have to disagree with you in terms of how easy it is, at least from my own perspective and the few who've commented on this system. (But then I don't mind taking my hand off the numpad, or sometimes I'll even just switch to using right control if it's more convenient.)

So far (and during 7DRL) I've heard only positive comments about it... maybe it will help if I explain the concept behind it? The idea is that "ctrl" represents a positive input direction, from inventory > parts > activate (and then deactivate, as a toggle at the end state), and then in reverse you have the "alt" negative input direction, which is parts > inventory > ground.

Does that help at all? At least with the intuition side, not the physical side. There aren't really any other options since we need every single other key for other features =p

Nice to have another fellow keyboard user, by the way :). There are quite a few of us!
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

Derman

  • Unaware
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Key bindings for equipment management
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 05:31:15 AM »

I'm assuming the system is mostly the same as in 7DRL version? I'm mainly a keyboard user, mostly because I play the game on my laptop and using the touchpad is too slow and clunky for me. I found it very easy to get used to ctrl+* and alt+*, though since my laptop's keyboard doesn't have proper numpad I have to use NumLock and "fn" to get the job done on some of the buttons. This can be harder if your keyboard supports only 2 simultaneous buttons, but in that case you can just quickly toggle the NumLock.

This could be fixed with something like making ctrl as a separate input (either as an option or locked feature), so you'd have to press ctrl, then the button instead of both at the same time. Then you wouldn't need pianists' fingers to press the buttons either. I've seen this used in some older roguelikes since older keyboards have very limited multi-press support. I'm fairly sure most keyboards people use these days are new enough to support 3 simultaneous buttons, so it's a very minor thing.

In my opinion, it would be a lot easier to just get used to the ctrl/alt thing since the other keys are already used for other commands. It might take some time to get used to, but - at least for me - I rarely even look at the keyboard anymore when playing the game.
Logged

infectedm

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Supported Cogmind Alpha Access 2015-2017 (Prime Tier)
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Key bindings for equipment management
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2015, 10:53:11 AM »

Granted, you quickly get accustomed to the ctrl=positive, alt=negative thing. So I guess this really is just personal preference and I'm sure I will also get accustomed to it.
But then again the combination for item swapping doesn't quite make sense... shouldn't it be ctrl+alt? :)

As another suggestion about the problem with having to take the hand off the numpad: would it be possible to offer an option to make ctrl, alt and shift "sticky"? (so you press them once and they stay active until you press the next button)
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4479
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Key bindings for equipment management
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2015, 11:25:48 AM »

But then again the combination for item swapping doesn't quite make sense... shouldn't it be ctrl+alt? :)
By logic I believe you're right, but everyone knows ctrl-shift+letter is much easier to do than ctrl-alt+letter ;)

As another suggestion about the problem with having to take the hand off the numpad: would it be possible to offer an option to make ctrl, alt and shift "sticky"? (so you press them once and they stay active until you press the next button)
This is... theoretically possible I believe (without having examined the code). If implemented it would have to be applied to all uses of ctrl, and could be set in the options.
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

Cacticus

  • Unaware
  • *
  • Supported Cogmind Alpha Access 2015-2017 (Prime Tier)
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Key bindings for equipment management
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2015, 01:19:34 PM »

I'm just going to say that I usually try to remap my keys as to minimize moving my hand off of the numpad and/or mouse. So key-binding would be something I'd like too. That said, I haven't quite played enough of Cogmind to get my muscle memory down yet. :)
Logged

nsg21

  • Derelict
  • **
  • Supported Cogmind Alpha Access 2015-2017 (Prime Tier)
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Key bindings for equipment management
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 12:58:52 PM »

The idea is that "ctrl" represents a positive input direction, from inventory > parts > activate (and then deactivate, as a toggle at the end state), and then in reverse you have the "alt" negative input direction, which is parts > inventory > ground.

It is a nice metaphor. My problem with this approach is that as an item moves from inventory to parts, it changes letter, and it changes the letters assigned to other items in the inventory. So, when I try to shuffle armaments slots I have to carefully reread the inventory to see which new number was assigned to the item I was just moving.
Logged

Kyzrati

  • Administrator
  • True Cogmind
  • *****
  • Posts: 4479
    • View Profile
    • Cogmind
Re: Key bindings for equipment management
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 01:02:47 PM »

I'm just going to say that I usually try to remap my keys as to minimize moving my hand off of the numpad and/or mouse. So key-binding would be something I'd like too. That said, I haven't quite played enough of Cogmind to get my muscle memory down yet. :)
I considered remappable keys multiple times. As you all probably know I'm big on accessibility so this was something I would have really liked to implement.

Problems exist due to the delicate balance between all the input systems used for different UI components, the internal architecture which uses hacks in some cases to enable keyboard use in areas where it can't be distributed from the central input system, and the fact that Cogmind uses pretty much every single key combination on the keyboard.

Key binding will most likely not be a thing :'(

Keep trying and see if you can adapt... I love my keyboard-only play style, but I'm also willing to move my right hand off the numpad to juggle parts real quick. Perhaps as an alternative you could play without moving your hands by using... wait for it... vi-keys! ;D

The idea is that "ctrl" represents a positive input direction, from inventory > parts > activate (and then deactivate, as a toggle at the end state), and then in reverse you have the "alt" negative input direction, which is parts > inventory > ground.

It is a nice metaphor. My problem with this approach is that as an item moves from inventory to parts, it changes letter, and it changes the letters assigned to other items in the inventory. So, when I try to shuffle armaments slots I have to carefully reread the inventory to see which new number was assigned to the item I was just moving.
Good point. One thing that may help in that regard: If removing something from your inventory everything below that point always shifts up one slot. As for movement to the inventory, that's a bit more complicated but the default is to just put it at the end. How else might that be handled to make it more intuitive/helpful?
Logged
Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon