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Author Topic: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22)  (Read 153676 times)

zxc

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #150 on: September 21, 2015, 05:03:04 AM »

Bugged start?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No second power source at the scrapyard.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #151 on: September 21, 2015, 05:40:04 AM »

In theory it's not 100% guaranteed you'll have everything from the base set, though based on how it's handled I'd be very surprised if you don't get two power sources every time.

Assuming you don't drop one and it gets picked up by the Recycler, both should generally be lying around in the northwest quadrant of the room (though we obviously don't see it here). If you give me the seed when you're done I can look at why it wasn't placed. (Also, if it truly didn't place then there should be an error listed in your run.log file during map generation, to the effect of "...unable to place item '[name]', skipping.")
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zxc

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #152 on: September 21, 2015, 06:31:30 AM »

I just won that game. Morgue:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was seed 1442832102. 81 min and my fastest turncount win at 1867 turns. I tried to focus on speed and not stealth but it was tough. We'll see if turncount is important for the best escape score. Of course there are other factors I know, but I've wanted to try to copy Biomatter's fast wins anyway (~ 1k turncount). I think the game is harder now than in those versions (speed bug fixed, traps, etc) so I think it was a decent run. I took a lot of core damage though, because I was brute-forcing it with speed and also spent a while almost-naked early on. I also had to wait out a lot of turns due to having no heat dissipation.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 06:35:43 AM by zxc »
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Happylisk

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #153 on: September 21, 2015, 06:34:48 AM »

Heh, it might be tough to top that considering you don't know the formula and it's not only based on speed, but you can try (and perhaps give Happylisk a chance to take your 1337 title if he's having another go or two at high scores :P).

Unfortunately I think I'm done for the tournie.  I'd love to play more, but I think my very patient ladyfriend has had enough of watching me play cogmind for now  ;)  Plus, my only goal was to get a win which was nice.  Now, I want to begin exploring how to integrate allies into a combat run.  I'll wait for the tournament to be over to begin that experiment. 

Don't think it'll be possible to snatch 1337 from zxc either.  With the gap between us, a good run to Research wouldn't do it.  I'd have to get a big fat win to close the gap (and that's a 3-4 hour investment right there). 

I was hoping to get more achievements, but heaviest, most corrupting, and most corrupted seems rather appropriate for me given how I play. 

E: Congrats zxc!  It's interesting looking at a stealth log after knowing the game better.  99% low security level, only 29 combat robots killed.  So different.  Also, there are so many items in this game I've probably never seen.  Vortex Chain reactor?  Sounds awesome. 

2 games ago, I found this advanced coolant network or something like that, that was a 2 utility slot item that did something insane like -90 heat per turn or so.  Give me 2 of those and 4 nova cannons any day of the week. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 06:39:17 AM by Happylisk »
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zxc

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #154 on: September 21, 2015, 06:37:24 AM »

 
Don't think it'll be possible to snatch 1337 from zxc either.  With the gap between us, a good run to Research wouldn't do it.  I'd have to get a big fat win to close the gap (and that's a 3-4 hour investment right there). 
If you did I'd just go and win another combat run. :P I do want that achievement. The other achievements the rest of you can fight over, but 1337 is mine. :)

E: Congrats zxc!  It's interesting looking at a stealth log after knowing the game better.  99% low security level, only 29 combat robots killed.  So different.  Also, there are so many items in this game I've probably never seen.  Vortex Chain reactor?  Sounds awesome. 

2 games ago, I found this advanced coolant network or something like that, that was a 2 utility slot item that did something insane like -90 heat per turn or so.  Give me 2 of those and 4 nova cannons any day of the week. 
Honestly it wasn't a stealth run. I made almost no attempt at stealth. It was an equip-flight-units-and-beeline-to-the-exits run. Got into a LOT of nasty situations. Do not try this at home. Also I'm convinced that there is a fairly common trap formation where there are stasis traps placed in front of a behemoth in the late-game. I've gotten caught in front of a behemoth far too many times to be just coincidence.

Vortex Chain Reactor is the best power source I've seen in the game so far. Screenshot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I got the coolant network on one of my failed combat runs. It was pretty swell. You can see it in action here (I died on this floor):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 06:53:08 AM by zxc »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #155 on: September 21, 2015, 07:20:30 AM »

Whoa, that's a fast win, zxc. It's hard to do a direct comparison with the difficulty of Alpha 1, since some things have gotten harder (traps, speed bug fixed) and some easier (smaller squad sizes and lower Programmer frequency).

Thanks for playing and joining the discussions, Happylisk. And for pulling off a win :D. Take a well-deserved break so you don't get banned from Cogmind :P. I'll still be here chugging along for quite some time...

Also I'm convinced that there is a fairly common trap formation where there are stasis traps placed in front of a behemoth in the late-game. I've gotten caught in front of a behemoth far too many times to be just coincidence.
No, you're just lucky like that ;)

...hm, now that you mention it, on closer examination the distribution mechanics do make that combination somewhat likely. It wasn't intentional, but I like it 8)
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zxc

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #156 on: September 21, 2015, 07:30:07 AM »

Whoa, that's a fast win, zxc. It's hard to do a direct comparison with the difficulty of Alpha 1, since some things have gotten harder (traps, speed bug fixed) and some easier (smaller squad sizes and lower Programmer frequency).
My money's on a turncount speedrun being tougher in this version than Alpha 1. However, in that run I didn't get a programmer squad sent after me even once all game. I guess it was because I was speeding through the levels and not wasting time.

...hm, now that you mention it, on closer examination the distribution mechanics do make that combination somewhat likely. It wasn't intentional, but I like it 8)
You're a bastard. I hope you know that.


I'm on eight wins now and counting (five during this challenge). I'm collecting them now! One question: does turns passed consider 1 action = 1 turn, or 100 time = 1 turn? Also, how does move speed interact with breaking stasis? Do you break out of stasis 10x faster at 10 move delay than you do with 100 move delay? Or are breaking attempts all the same length of time regardless of propulsion?

Edit: The scoreboard never updates when you want it to. I really want to know whether my last run improved on 1.08. Also, these are fantastically odd scores. I wonder if you did something like score = (1000 / turns) + (3000 / core damage taken) + (highscore / 20000) etc. with a bunch of factors like that.

Edit2: Yay. 2.02 score. So it seems the best escape algorithm loves low turn counts. :P My 1337 achievement score took a hit but it should be OK. I'm not in the top 3 for Against All Odds though, which I find strange because I managed to escape with this peak setup (and even this is inflated because I couldn't move with the launcher equipped, and other than the sensors my utilities were mostly useless. Also the chainsword seems pathetically weak - maybe I just got unlucky with a ton of rolls but it compared unfavourably with stuff like katanas):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 09:09:09 AM by zxc »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #157 on: September 21, 2015, 09:16:26 AM »

Whoa, that's a fast win, zxc. It's hard to do a direct comparison with the difficulty of Alpha 1, since some things have gotten harder (traps, speed bug fixed) and some easier (smaller squad sizes and lower Programmer frequency).
My money's on a turncount speedrun being tougher in this version than Alpha 1. However, in that run I didn't get a programmer squad sent after me even once all game. I guess it was because I was speeding through the levels and not wasting time.
Yep, when you're racing that fast, they don't have enough time to react.

...hm, now that you mention it, on closer examination the distribution mechanics do make that combination somewhat likely. It wasn't intentional, but I like it 8)
You're a bastard. I hope you know that.
Requirement #1 for being a roguelike dev ;)

I'm on eight wins now and counting (five during this challenge). I'm collecting them now! One question: does turns passed consider 1 action = 1 turn, or 100 time = 1 turn?
Ha, you are on quite a roll now. Turns passed is game turns, yes; not actions. (If it were the latter I'd definitely use that term. I will be adding Action Counts to the score sheet for the next release.)

Also, how does move speed interact with breaking stasis? Do you break out of stasis 10x faster at 10 move delay than you do with 100 move delay? Or are breaking attempts all the same length of time regardless of propulsion?
An attempt is an action that takes 1 full turn regardless of your propulsion.

Edit: The scoreboard never updates when you want it to. I really want to know whether my last run improved on 1.08. Also, these are fantastically odd scores. I wonder if you did something like score = (1000 / turns) + (3000 / core damage taken) + (highscore / 20000) etc. with a bunch of factors like that.

Edit2: Yay. 2.02 score. So it seems the best escape algorithm loves low turn counts. :P
I honestly didn't have enough data when coming up with the formula for Best Escapes--too few previous wins! Still, it works out fine because the aim was to emphasize turn count to make sure speed/stealth runs could have their place on the leaderboards since they'll obviously get beat out by score. Destruction still plays an important role, though, so if you can wreak more havoc and get out faster you'd have a better escape rating. I would definitely redo the entire formula in the future if applicable to some event.

I'm not in the top 3 for Against All Odds though, which I find strange because I managed to escape with this peak setup (and even this is inflated because I couldn't move with the launcher equipped, and other than the sensors my utilities were mostly useless.
A few of the achievements, including that one, are slightly more easily taken by less experienced players who manage to reach the mid-game by barely scraping by. I wouldn't call carrying a Vortex Chain Reactor and Point Singularity Launcher "barely scraping by" :P. There are players out there who are barely playing with prototypes, much less some of the most awesome gear you can find!

Also the chainsword seems pathetically weak - maybe I just got unlucky with a ton of rolls but it compared unfavourably with stuff like katanas)
Musta just been unlucky, since it's a direct upgrade. (Also the slower/longer attack animation might make it feel a little weaker, whereas you can get repeated slashes off and see results more quickly in real time with a Katana.)

Edit3: Also you can see here that this *4 rating flight unit is worse in every way compared to the *3 flight unit (I guess maybe the max integrity is better - that is the only explanation):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'll look into that one.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #158 on: September 21, 2015, 09:21:42 AM »

Bonus stats! (Day 12 isn't over yet, but I'm posting this now anyway.)



I found a problem with two records that were throwing off the play time and fixed those, so you'll see total play time fell from the previous stats. Also, the rather high Max play times you see in Materials are not errors--they're a few new players learning the game (stopping a lot, reading the manual, etc.), especially on -10.
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zxc

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #159 on: September 21, 2015, 09:28:49 AM »

A few of the achievements, including that one, are slightly more easily taken by less experienced players who manage to reach the mid-game by barely scraping by. I wouldn't call carrying a Vortex Chain Reactor and Point Singularity Launcher "barely scraping by" :P. There are players out there who are barely playing with prototypes, much less some of the most awesome gear you can find!
That's very true. Still, by the standards I'm used to, it felt like I reached the Surface nude! Got better things to do than to pick up items!

Edit3: Also you can see here that this *4 rating flight unit is worse in every way compared to the *3 flight unit (I guess maybe the max integrity is better - that is the only explanation):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'll look into that one.
I removed that edit after some thought because I suspect the reason is twofold: 1. most likely higher max integrity 2. the *4 one has burnout whereas the *3 one has burnout 0 which DISPLAYS as though it's better but it probably means it can't be overloaded.

Juicy stats, K!
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #160 on: September 21, 2015, 09:46:12 AM »

Oh whoops. Yeah I hadn't looked in detail at the parts you were referring to. The ability to overload is a game-changer there--the whole reason for the difference ;)

More stats to come! Altogether too many, almost... but I'm having fun with them. I used to use Calc for my spreadsheets and for the Challenge just switched to Excel--the latter hands down blows the other one away. Putting together cool graphs is a breeze.
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Agroesch

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #161 on: September 21, 2015, 08:33:23 PM »

Well I'll be afk for a few days so I won't be able to do any more runs for the tournament. I really wish I could have squeezed out a win but it didn't happen. I only made it to access once and with limited options at that. I had some great fun runs though. Hopefully I'll stay on the high score board XD

Kyzrati your game is magnificent. It breathes more fresh air into a strictly traditional roguelike format than I ever would have thought possible.

Thank you
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #162 on: September 21, 2015, 08:50:33 PM »

Thank YOU for supporting and playing, Agroesch. I thought you might've managed a win before time was up, but it's true combat runs through Research are a tough proposition that can turn on a dime unless you really stack the odds in your favor (just ask the EM / inventory hoarders :P). In any case it's unlikely the top 10 will do much more shuffling in this final day.

24 hours left everyone!

A few more achievement names and a couple definitions were revealed; last batch before the end when all is revealed and compiled :)
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #163 on: September 22, 2015, 08:56:53 AM »

Well, I was putting together more graphs anyway, so may as well share them :D

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zxc

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #164 on: September 22, 2015, 09:43:51 AM »

I don't quite understand that Inventory Size graph. What's the X axis?
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #165 on: September 22, 2015, 09:52:19 AM »

The x-axis is what I get for doing this in a hurry ;)

It was supposed to be depth, but I forgot to link that row to the chart so Excel just numbered them on its own. They're supposed to be -10 to 0 like the others, from left to right. It'll be fixed for the final version (and larger).
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zxc

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #166 on: September 22, 2015, 09:58:59 AM »

You silly billy. Also, I assume the max/avg/min refers to aggregates of the max inventory size of a run, while carried refers to the avg of the avg items carried in a run.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #167 on: September 22, 2015, 10:05:25 AM »

That chart was kinda slapped into that lonely corner without much explanation, either, yeah.

Max/avg/min all refer to the Largest Inventory but taken only at the point of death/winning because that's all we know. "Carried" is taken at the same point, using the average of everyone's Average Items Carried (so it's not super meaningful other than to tell us a lot of Cogmind's run around with near empty inventories for a while).
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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #168 on: September 22, 2015, 11:47:54 AM »

Dammit, I think I will not be able to achieve a single game :(
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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #169 on: September 22, 2015, 01:01:37 PM »

-6 at the moment, still running. But I should stop soon. Too bad
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Chad

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #170 on: September 22, 2015, 03:30:37 PM »

Thats it for me in the tournament. I've tried to get a place back in the top ten, but it seems that im more a quantitative player, not the qualitative one :D
Had some nice runs (and many bad ones), I've tried stealth and combat runs. Both went very bad in late factory/early research. I reach always a point where I run into Programmers or squads and that ends very bad.

Thx for the tournament, I really enjoyed it!
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sve9

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #171 on: September 22, 2015, 04:03:08 PM »

Yeah, It was an amazing tournament K, looking forward to more statistics to come!
 ;D
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #172 on: September 22, 2015, 07:53:02 PM »

Full statistics coming next week!

You're welcome and glad you all enjoyed it :)

Chad: I noticed you playing a heck of a lot and taking a number of achievements. The last Factory floor is where the difficulty (once again) really ramps up, so that's a tough barrier. The top 10 ended up being pretty competitive with a lot of players reaching that same general area!

-6 at the moment, still running. But I should stop soon. Too bad
You know you could just get yourself killed and that will still count as a game considering you've already made it so far! Still 1 hour remaining :D

I'm going to process the latest data in a moment.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22, IN PROGRESS!)
« Reply #173 on: September 22, 2015, 09:00:18 PM »

Alpha Challenge 2015 is officially over... announcements, reward list, and a new results page coming shortly!
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22)
« Reply #174 on: September 22, 2015, 09:26:27 PM »

Alpha Challenge final results are here, and prize list here :D

Congratulations and thank you for participating!

(Also, of course all the achievement names and descriptions have now been revealed :P)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:32:13 PM by Kyzrati »
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