Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22)

[zxc]

It's a better late-game tactic because robots are just as susceptible to EM as they were at the beginning (since it's on its own scale), but the weapons do significantly more damage.

By the end with a full EM loadout you should be able to take out almost anything quickly, as long as you can hit it, so Behemoths are extra easy in that regard. The drawback was supposed to be you're less equipped to confront Programmers, though their number has been reduced from before...

Maybe to offset that change and restore the balance Programmers will need to have their EM resistance further increased.

That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have? And regarding programmers, I often swapped weapon loadouts depending on what I was facing (or expecting to face). Programmers are still suicidal i.e. they overheat really fast.

I see. There are already 3-4 ways I can think of luring Sentries from their positions without taking direct fire. Not all effective in all situations, but I believe a universal solution would make things a little more boring.

That's completely fair enough! I know of a few ways, I was just wondering since shouting is a thing in games like DCSS.

'r' is also used as the actual run key (not just stopping) for players using vi-keys, so it can't be reused.

Fair enough, but you have any number of letters you can use. Still, I agree it wouldn't be an important addition.


Re: those stats, they're quite nifty. You can see avg. damage drop off at 0 because of my 3/4 stealth wins where I hardly do any damage. The only reason why it's even that high is because of the massive damage I did in the combat run. I wonder what extermination squads are, and even the investigation squads. I think the assault teams are the grunt teams with a bruiser/duelist and saboteur, which is a tough mix of units to deal with.

[Kyzrati]

That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have?

Not sure yet. I'd like the system to be mostly transparent and easy to use (damage = corruption), and the proposed solution works against that.

An alternative would be to equip actual anti-EM parts on later robots (which would be working within the lore space), though then the player has access to these even more frequently. There's also the possibility of giving them more native resistance to offset better EM weapons (and the player then couldn't have access to any related part), but I wanted to keep class resistances equal across classes regardless of variant (early or late-game).

And regarding programmers, I often swapped weapon loadouts depending on what I was facing (or expecting to face). Programmers are still suicidal i.e. they overheat really fast.

I noticed. They were supposed to overheat if you use a good amount of thermal against them, but if they're still melting even before that point then I haven't done enough to counteract it. I'm probably going to do three things to them for the next build: further increase their EM resistance, make them slightly weak against TH weapons (which would be the only such robot), and give them better heat dissipation.

'r' is also used as the actual run key (not just stopping) for players using vi-keys, so it can't be reused.

Fair enough, but you have any number of letters you can use. Still, I agree it wouldn't be an important addition.

Right now I'm all for avoiding anything that's not an "important addition" . Soooo many important things to do. Like new branches... all of which have been getting stacked behind other important things to do...

Re: those stats, they're quite nifty. You can see avg. damage drop off at 0 because of my 3/4 stealth wins where I hardly do any damage. The only reason why it's even that high is because of the massive damage I did in the combat run. I wonder what extermination squads are, and even the investigation squads. I think the assault teams are the grunt teams with a bruiser/duelist and saboteur, which is a tough mix of units to deal with.

Yeah, I noticed the cause behind the 0-depth explosive ratio--that bar is... all zxc. I'm curious what it would've looked like without the combat run! It would perhaps also be slightly different if the Programmers and/or potential assault squads could reach you in -1. Once we have some other combat victories (if that happens by the end--I hope), that bar will certainly make a corresponding jump.

Also interesting: Notice the rather significant jump in total damage going into -3

The squad types you'll learn about later in Alpha 5-ish, if you haven't figured it out by then. You can decipher the associations now by hacking dispatch records in combination with what's happening in response to your actions. Easier said than done since terminals aren't always so convenient (plus you're usually busy with more important things ).

[zxc]

That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have?

Not sure yet. I'd like the system to be mostly transparent and easy to use (damage = corruption), and the proposed solution works against that.

I would argue that this would be just as easy to use (damage still = corruption). In fact, I think it is less intuitive that a huge robot like a Behemoth dies as fast to the same amount of EM damage as a tiny, weakling robot. I kind of like that system though, as it gives Behemoths an interesting weak-point. However, they're too weak! Maybe late-game EM weapons need to be nerfed instead?

It would perhaps also be slightly different if the Programmers and/or potential assault squads could reach you in -1.

Definitely the damage would have been higher. Also, my score would have been higher

Also interesting: Notice the rather significant jump in total damage going into -3

That's very interesting. I would suppose it's due to the increase in concentration of enemies, which further results in rapid increases to alert levels and even more robots. Plus most combat runs end when the alert level gets too high, and a lot of high score runs ended on -3.

[Happylisk]

I have a cogmind currently rampaging through Access.  I had to stop for the day due to social obligations but I think this is it.  Getting through research without sensors, drones, or hacking was painless after I realized what I've been doing wrong literally every run til now.  I'll post more after hopefully reaching the surface. 

[Kyzrati]

That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have?

Not sure yet. I'd like the system to be mostly transparent and easy to use (damage = corruption), and the proposed solution works against that.

I would argue that this would be just as easy to use (damage still = corruption). In fact, I think it is less intuitive that a huge robot like a Behemoth dies as fast to the same amount of EM damage as a tiny, weakling robot. I kind of like that system though, as it gives Behemoths an interesting weak-point. However, they're too weak! Maybe late-game EM weapons need to be nerfed instead?

The idea was to give them a weak point you can take advantage of, yes. It is possible late-game EM weapons could use a bit of a nerf, but it would be all to easy to get almost no one to use them. As is they can at least do a non-minimal amount of real damage along with their EM effect. Lowering their damage further would mean that if you still use them, the main purpose would be purely for corruption, and you'd have to use a lot of them to achieve that (combining them with other weapons would be pointless compared to how it sorta works now).

An alternative to better protect specific robots would be to equip them with Dynamic Insulation Systems (there are several robots more advanced than a Behemoth that use these).

It's mostly a case of whether EM is OP enough against everything such that it's always the best option. With Programmers soon to get another boost in that regard, it could make that a more dangerous strategy. (For the record: biomatter, the first Cogmind to win, said he loved late-game EM and thought it was OP at the time.)

I have a cogmind currently rampaging through Access.  I had to stop for the day due to social obligations but I think this is it.  Getting through research without sensors, drones, or hacking was painless after I realized what I've been doing wrong literally every run til now.  I'll post more after hopefully reaching the surface. 

Sounds like you can already see the light at the end of the tunnel! Rampaging through Access is usually the state shortly before a victorious run

I'm also quite curious what it is you discovered that you've been doing wrong

[zxc]

I have a cogmind currently rampaging through Access.  I had to stop for the day due to social obligations but I think this is it.  Getting through research without sensors, drones, or hacking was painless after I realized what I've been doing wrong literally every run til now.  I'll post more after hopefully reaching the surface.

Dying to know what the secret is. Getting through research painlessly is something that eludes everyone else, including myself.

Did you start mining tunnels through the map? Stack EM weapons and found they were OP? Conversely, stacked kinetic weapons and found they were super efficient with force fields? Starting purging threat a lot? But you said without hacking... Did you start moving into optimal positions at the start of firefights (like you would in DCSS) instead of fighting in the open? Allocate more space in your pack for weapons? Trying to figure out what would be a eureka moment, but it's hard.

[Kyzrati]

Just uploaded another score update. The latter half of the top 10 is starting to shuffle over weekend play, and I also just revealed another batch of the achievements (though more names than descriptions for now).

[Happylisk]

LOCATION = SURFACE

GOAL = ACCOMPLISHED

LRC-V3 codenamed "Happylisk" has left the building. 

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: Happylisk

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (319)     1595
Value Destroyed (14896)    14896
Prototype IDs (          160
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (2000)               2000
              TOTAL SCORE: 23151

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             1347/1600
Matter                     290/300
Energy                     1293/1300
System Corruption          7%
Temperature                Cool (4)
Location                   Surface

Parts
-------
Power (3)
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (2)
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility (15)
  Energy Well
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Layered Light Armor Plating
  Large Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Heavy Armor Plating
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Advanced Force Field
  Advanced Cooling System
  Improved Utility Shielding
Weapon (5)
  Heavy Disruptor Cannon
  Multirail
  Compact HERF Cannon
  Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array

Inventory
-----------
Quantum Reactor
Improved Heavy Treads
Heavy Disruptor Cannon
Compact HERF Cannon
Compact HERF Cannon
Railgun
Railgun
Railgun
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Micro-nuke Launcher
Point Singularity Launcher
Point Singularity Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
High-capacity Storage Unit
Matter Compressor
Energy Mantle
Improved Targeting Computer
Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Railgun

Peak State
------------
Power
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Reflective Medium Armor
  Energy Well
  Large Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Force Field
  Medium Storage Unit
  Advanced Cloaking Device
  Advanced Cooling System
  Insulated Heavy Armor
  Advanced Cloaking Device
  Layered Medium Armor Plating
Weapon
  Gamma Rifle
  Railgun
  Gamma Rifle
  Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
  Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
[Rating: 153]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Quantum Reactor
  Engine                   Light Angular Momentum Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion                 Medium Treads
  Treads                   Medium Treads
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
Utility                    High-capacity Storage Unit
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Targeting Computer
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
  Protection               Reflective Medium Armor
Weapon                     Gamma Rifle
  Energy Gun               Gamma Rifle
  Energy Cannon            HERF Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Railgun
  Ballistic Cannon         Light Cannon
  Launcher                 Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
  Special Weapon           Improved Plasma Cutter

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          15
  Worker                   22
  Builder                  19
  Tunneler                 2
  Hauler                   1
  Recycler                 17
  Mechanic                 1
  Operator                 4
  Watcher                  5
  Swarmer                  55
  Grunt                    92
  Brawler                  1
  Duelist                  4
  Sentry                   29
  Hunter                   18
  Programmer               49
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           10
  Combat Bots Only         7
Matter Collected           12142
  Salvage Created          16762
Parts Attached             558
  Power                    63
  Propulsion               35
  Utility                  249
  Weapon                   211
Parts Lost                 154
  Power                    15
  Propulsion               12
  Utility                  85
  Weapon                   42
Average Slot Usage (%)     92
  Naked Turns              5
Spaces Moved               10385
  Fastest Speed (%)        200
  Slowest Speed (%)        9
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           2
  Cave-ins Triggered       1
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             214
  Greatest Overweight (x)  67
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          46
  Most Items Carried       42
  Average Items Carried    27
Core Damage Taken          1992
Volleys Fired              830
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  349
Shots Fired                2019
  Gun                      1284
  Cannon                   608
  Launcher                 123
  Special                  4
  Kinetic                  1024
  Thermal                  94
  Explosive                57
  Electromagnetic          844
Shots Hit Robots           1293
  Core Hits                664
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           44728
  Projectiles              34626
  Explosions               10091
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  11
Highest Temperature        506
  Average Temperature      62
  Shutdowns                5
  Energy Bleed             1
  Interference             4
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            1
  Damage (minor)           1
  Damage (major)           4
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         38
  Message Errors           102
  Parts Rejected           35
  Data loss (map)          140
  Data loss (database)     97
  Misfires                 30
  Misdirections            47
  Targeting Errors         124
  Weapon Failures          28
Haulers Intercepted        1
Robots Corrupted           56
Robots Melted              8
Tactical Retreats          15
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             14
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            3
  Indirectly               3
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        39
  Terminals                27
  Fabricators              6
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              3
Machines Hacked            39
  Terminals                27
  Fabricators              6
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              3
Total Hacks                120
  Successful               26
  Failed                   94
  Catastrophic             31
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   71
  Terminals                77
  Fabricators              18
  Repair Stations          12
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              13
Terminal Hacks             6
  Record                   0
  Part Schematic           0
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        1
  Open Door                1
  Level Access Points      1
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Alert Level              0
  Unreport Threat          3
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         44
  Full Trace Events        32
  Feedback Events          3
  Feedback Corruption      3
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   1
  Parts Built              4
  Total Part Build Rating  4
  Part Fabrication Matter  80
  Part Fabrication Time    240
Parts Repaired             2
  Part Repair Time         75
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           3
  Part Schematics Acquired 1
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               42
  Largest Group            10
  Highest-Rated Group      55
  Highest-Rated Ally       10
Total Orders               15
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     1
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  14
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               61
  Total Damage             615
  Kills                    9
Allies Corrupted           1
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             422
  Average Influence        137
Maximum Alert Level        2
  Low Security (%)         71
  Level 1                  27
  Level 2                  1
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          64
  Investigation            32
  Extermination            23
  Reinforcement            9
  Assault                  0
Exploration Rate (%)       33
  Regions Visited          12
Turns Passed               25462
  Depth 11                 164
  Depth 10                 914
  Depth 9                  2177
  Depth 8                  826
  Depth 7                  1362
  Depth 6                  3716
  Depth 5                  2003
  Depth 4                  1133
  Depth 3                  1916
  Depth 2                  2591
  Depth 1                  8660
  Scrapyard                164
  Materials                2555
  Factory                  8214
  Research                 4507
  Access                   8660
  Storage                  1362

Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Dispersion Rifle
Improved Lightning Gun
Improved Assault Rifle
Anti-matter Cannon
Point Singularity Launcher
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Experimental Signal Interpreter

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1442668386
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 255 min
Sessions: 26
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 70
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Font: 12/Cogmind
Map View: 76x56


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24093937

[close]

[Happylisk]

Dying to know what the secret is. Getting through research painlessly is something that eludes everyone else, including myself.

.....Stack EM weapons ....?

Winner winner chicken dinner.

In a funny sense I've come full circle.  When I first started cogmind, my favorite thing to find in storage was advanced emp blasters.  I'd sometimes equip 3 and run around 1 shotting things including carriers.  And then I met programmers and learned of their resistance to em weapon and drastically cut down on my em usage.  Relatedly, hunters have been giving me huge troubles.  Run ending troubles.  These things are interconnected. 

My weapon load out normally was a kinetic and 2 thermals or the inverse.  I figured thermals were a good choice because nothing resists them.  True enough, but nothing is vulnerable to them either.  Looking at this chart real carefully inspired me to change my foolish ways:

http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=259.0

Here's how I changed my build.  Around mid factory, this run I used 2 kinetic weapons and 2 em weapons.  Against grunts, they're vulnerable to all 4 guns.  They would usually get one shot.  Against terminators, I would sub out 1 kinetic for a spare em weapon and turn off the other kinetic.  With one swap, I have a 3 shot volley he's weak to.  With programmers, I do the reverse: switch to one kinetic weapon, turn off the em gun.  By only shooting at enemies with weapons they're weak to, I was one shotting tons of fools even in factory.  Best defense is a good offense; having fights end about twice as fast allowed me to build up a good utility set up and take control.

2 other changes.  One, whenever I got programmer alerts in Research I would move to single tile corridors when possible and wait.  It prevented getting swarmed.  Two, I would position myself so I could tell which direction they were coming from.  This helped me accurately guess where the stairs were pretty easily. 

I don't think I purged alert once after -5 or so.  By moving fast, I avoided the consequences of tons of squads coming down.  When they did, I'd blast em with aoe weapons. 

Are EM weapons OP?  I don't think so, but will admit they're def the best weapons.  Also, I think that EM usage will be reflected in scores.  I imagine that if more robots go down to corruption rather than being killed the normally way, that will have a depressive effect on the score.   

I think thermal weapons are underpowered.  I didn't use thermal at all this round, didn't pick up thermal guns.  In the current state of the game, I think a thermal weapon should only be used out of desperation.  The change to make programmers heat vulnerable will give them a nice oomph. 

Spoiler

Access is definitely bugged.  No reinforcements, no programmer spawns, nothing.  This made life much easier.  I think I could've won even with normal enemy conditions, but who knows.

Also, the singularity launcher might be the best thing ever. 

[close]

K, speaking as someone who's exclusively played roguelikes since 2002, I think this is the best roguelike I've ever played.

e: oh man I really, really, really hope I hold on to the Heavy Metal award. 

[zxc]

LOCATION = SURFACE

GOAL = ACCOMPLISHED

LRC-V3 codenamed "Happylisk" has left the building. 

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: Happylisk

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (319)     1595
Value Destroyed (14896)    14896
Prototype IDs (          160
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (2000)               2000
              TOTAL SCORE: 23151

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             1347/1600
Matter                     290/300
Energy                     1293/1300
System Corruption          7%
Temperature                Cool (4)
Location                   Surface

Parts
-------
Power (3)
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (2)
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility (15)
  Energy Well
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Layered Light Armor Plating
  Large Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Heavy Armor Plating
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Advanced Force Field
  Advanced Cooling System
  Improved Utility Shielding
Weapon (5)
  Heavy Disruptor Cannon
  Multirail
  Compact HERF Cannon
  Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array

Inventory
-----------
Quantum Reactor
Improved Heavy Treads
Heavy Disruptor Cannon
Compact HERF Cannon
Compact HERF Cannon
Railgun
Railgun
Railgun
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Micro-nuke Launcher
Point Singularity Launcher
Point Singularity Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
High-capacity Storage Unit
Matter Compressor
Energy Mantle
Improved Targeting Computer
Hacking Suite
Advanced Hacking Suite
Railgun

Peak State
------------
Power
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Reflective Medium Armor
  Energy Well
  Large Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Force Field
  Medium Storage Unit
  Advanced Cloaking Device
  Advanced Cooling System
  Insulated Heavy Armor
  Advanced Cloaking Device
  Layered Medium Armor Plating
Weapon
  Gamma Rifle
  Railgun
  Gamma Rifle
  Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
  Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
[Rating: 153]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Quantum Reactor
  Engine                   Light Angular Momentum Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion                 Medium Treads
  Treads                   Medium Treads
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
Utility                    High-capacity Storage Unit
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Targeting Computer
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
  Protection               Reflective Medium Armor
Weapon                     Gamma Rifle
  Energy Gun               Gamma Rifle
  Energy Cannon            HERF Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Railgun
  Ballistic Cannon         Light Cannon
  Launcher                 Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
  Special Weapon           Improved Plasma Cutter

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          15
  Worker                   22
  Builder                  19
  Tunneler                 2
  Hauler                   1
  Recycler                 17
  Mechanic                 1
  Operator                 4
  Watcher                  5
  Swarmer                  55
  Grunt                    92
  Brawler                  1
  Duelist                  4
  Sentry                   29
  Hunter                   18
  Programmer               49
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           10
  Combat Bots Only         7
Matter Collected           12142
  Salvage Created          16762
Parts Attached             558
  Power                    63
  Propulsion               35
  Utility                  249
  Weapon                   211
Parts Lost                 154
  Power                    15
  Propulsion               12
  Utility                  85
  Weapon                   42
Average Slot Usage (%)     92
  Naked Turns              5
Spaces Moved               10385
  Fastest Speed (%)        200
  Slowest Speed (%)        9
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           2
  Cave-ins Triggered       1
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             214
  Greatest Overweight (x)  67
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          46
  Most Items Carried       42
  Average Items Carried    27
Core Damage Taken          1992
Volleys Fired              830
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  349
Shots Fired                2019
  Gun                      1284
  Cannon                   608
  Launcher                 123
  Special                  4
  Kinetic                  1024
  Thermal                  94
  Explosive                57
  Electromagnetic          844
Shots Hit Robots           1293
  Core Hits                664
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           44728
  Projectiles              34626
  Explosions               10091
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  11
Highest Temperature        506
  Average Temperature      62
  Shutdowns                5
  Energy Bleed             1
  Interference             4
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            1
  Damage (minor)           1
  Damage (major)           4
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         38
  Message Errors           102
  Parts Rejected           35
  Data loss (map)          140
  Data loss (database)     97
  Misfires                 30
  Misdirections            47
  Targeting Errors         124
  Weapon Failures          28
Haulers Intercepted        1
Robots Corrupted           56
Robots Melted              8
Tactical Retreats          15
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             14
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            3
  Indirectly               3
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        39
  Terminals                27
  Fabricators              6
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              3
Machines Hacked            39
  Terminals                27
  Fabricators              6
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              3
Total Hacks                120
  Successful               26
  Failed                   94
  Catastrophic             31
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   71
  Terminals                77
  Fabricators              18
  Repair Stations          12
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              13
Terminal Hacks             6
  Record                   0
  Part Schematic           0
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        1
  Open Door                1
  Level Access Points      1
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Alert Level              0
  Unreport Threat          3
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         44
  Full Trace Events        32
  Feedback Events          3
  Feedback Corruption      3
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   1
  Parts Built              4
  Total Part Build Rating  4
  Part Fabrication Matter  80
  Part Fabrication Time    240
Parts Repaired             2
  Part Repair Time         75
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           3
  Part Schematics Acquired 1
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               42
  Largest Group            10
  Highest-Rated Group      55
  Highest-Rated Ally       10
Total Orders               15
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     1
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  14
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               61
  Total Damage             615
  Kills                    9
Allies Corrupted           1
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             422
  Average Influence        137
Maximum Alert Level        2
  Low Security (%)         71
  Level 1                  27
  Level 2                  1
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          64
  Investigation            32
  Extermination            23
  Reinforcement            9
  Assault                  0
Exploration Rate (%)       33
  Regions Visited          12
Turns Passed               25462
  Depth 11                 164
  Depth 10                 914
  Depth 9                  2177
  Depth 8                  826
  Depth 7                  1362
  Depth 6                  3716
  Depth 5                  2003
  Depth 4                  1133
  Depth 3                  1916
  Depth 2                  2591
  Depth 1                  8660
  Scrapyard                164
  Materials                2555
  Factory                  8214
  Research                 4507
  Access                   8660
  Storage                  1362

Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Dispersion Rifle
Improved Lightning Gun
Improved Assault Rifle
Anti-matter Cannon
Point Singularity Launcher
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Experimental Signal Interpreter

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1442668386
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 255 min
Sessions: 26
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 70
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Font: 12/Cogmind
Map View: 76x56


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24093937

[close]

Hell yeah! Congrats!

Dying to know what the secret is. Getting through research painlessly is something that eludes everyone else, including myself.

.....Stack EM weapons ....?

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Scattershot approach works! I do much the same thing as you were doing this run ie. swapping weapons a lot based on enemies being faced, ever since I came up with that table. Glad that helped it click for you!

2 other changes.  One, whenever I got programmer alerts in Research I would move to single tile corridors when possible and wait.  It prevented getting swarmed.  Two, I would position myself so I could tell which direction they were coming from.  This helped me accurately guess where the stairs were pretty easily. 

That waiting thing also clicked for me recently. But do you know for sure that programmer dispatches come from an exit? That's an excellent method of finding the exit if that's the case.

K, speaking as someone who's exclusively played roguelikes since 2002, I think this is the best roguelike I've ever played.

That's high praise given how much DCSS you've played! I'm not quite ready to give up the top spot just yet, but it's second by a long way for me.

e: oh man I really, really, really hope I hold on to the Heavy Metal award. 

I'd challenge you for it but I don't have a clue what it's for. Maybe something related to heavy armour? Maybe something to do with being highest mass over support capacity? I'm a metalhead myself so I feel I should be up there too.

I'm going to try a bit of a turncount speedrun before the end of the tournament. I'd do it now but I'm suddenly really busy. Hopefully I will have some time before the end.

[Happylisk]

That waiting thing also clicked for me recently. But do you know for sure that programmer dispatches come from an exit? That's an excellent method of finding the exit if that's the case.

I'm 99% sure programmers come from the stairs.  Besides looking out for the direction they came from, I also see how long it takes them to get to me.  Once I had programmers on me about 25 turns after the message, letting me know the exit was close. 

I think Heavy metal awards heaviest average build.  I'm a metalhead too so it'll be in good hands if I can keep it 

Here's a very interesting thing from my run:

Maximum Alert Level        2
  Low Security (%)         71
  Level 1                  27
  Level 2                  1
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0

That's... crazy.  I'm not sure how to explain that.  I think I only did 3 alert purges total.  Does going into Waste reduce the alert level?  I deliberately went there twice. 

By way of comparison, here's zxc's alert level from his winning combat run:

Maximum Alert Level        3
  Low Security (%)         46
  Level 1                  25
  Level 2                  25
  Level 3                  2
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0

Slightly higher than mine, and with 10 alert purges.  I'm not sure what I did to keep the level low but clearly keeping the level no higher than 2 is key. 

Question for K: Would the AI treat a robot being corrupted to death differently than a robot being blown up for security purposes?

[zxc]

We know that entering a new floor reduces the alert level. It's not clear whether this only applies to main floors (like evolutions) or all floors. It could be that entering the Waste twice contributed heavily towards reducing your alert level.

It could also be that your strategy of not getting bogged down in combat paid off with respect to influence.

[Happylisk]

In your winning combat run, you corrupted 11 enemy robots to death.  I corrupted 56.  I suspect this is what kept the alert level low (and if I'm right, corrupting an enemy to death should probably bother the AI more).  I could be wrong though, and maybe it was Waste. 

Also, minor bug: the scoresheet does not say how long you spent in waste, unlike other branches. 

[zxc]

In your winning combat run, you corrupted 11 enemy robots to death.  I corrupted 56.  I suspect this is what kept the alert level low (and if I'm right, corrupting an enemy to death should probably bother the AI more).  I could be wrong though, and maybe it was Waste. 

Also, minor bug: the scoresheet does not say how long you spent in waste, unlike other branches.

Oh my. That's a lot of corruption. If there's an achievement for that, you're no doubt way in front of everyone there. I suspect enemies defeated by system corruption also don't get added to your score. I think enemies defeated by system melting and system corruption ought to count in exactly the same way as those defeated by regular destruction, particularly regarding alert level and score.

Also I just realised that there are now three players each for combat and stealth wins.

[Kyzrati]

Yay, congrats Happylisk! And thank you for proving that full EM might be somewhat OP at the end (Even just being "definitely the best" still hints that some re-balancing is in order--good point about the score, though. I won't take any drastic measures here.). Sounds like you had a really sound strategy going there on top of that, though.

Two, I would position myself so I could tell which direction they were coming from.  This helped me accurately guess where the stairs were pretty easily.

Ah you figured this strategy out. I was wondering when someone would notice

I think thermal weapons are underpowered.  I didn't use thermal at all this round, didn't pick up thermal guns.  In the current state of the game, I think a thermal weapon should only be used out of desperation.  The change to make programmers heat vulnerable will give them a nice oomph.

Yeah, that's part of the intent there--it needs another boost or two. Thermal is obviously at a bit of a disadvantage since it drains power you'd rather be spending on other things regardless of your build; this despite its multiple existing advantages.

Causing meltdowns was another mechanic aimed at improving thermal viability, but it has been difficult to properly balance that since hostile robots don't have very stable heat levels so it'll generally be either too easy or too difficult to melt them. That will require a little more testing, but I know Programmers will be weak against thermal and that will mix things up.

Spoiler

Access is definitely bugged.  No reinforcements, no programmer spawns, nothing.  This made life much easier.  I think I could've won even with normal enemy conditions, but who knows.

Yep, I didn't realize the squads had no way to get into that map! It will definitely get more difficult, but not significantly more so than Researcher due to the other factors discussed earlier.

[close]

K, speaking as someone who's exclusively played roguelikes since 2002, I think this is the best roguelike I've ever played.

You're not leaving much room for improvement there

Well, I've hooked you and quite a few other people; next up is to make the game simply irresistible on many more levels and expand that audience to ensure financial success and make sure the sequel is just as awesome (no, let's not talk about that now ). Lots of work to do!

That's high praise given how much DCSS you've played! I'm not quite ready to give up the top spot just yet, but it's second by a long way for me.

I'l take second to DCSS . That game is awesome (and created by a zillion talented individuals), as are many of the major roguelikes. Different players just get into different games, too, and I'm sure Cogmind can easily fill some voids since there isn't really anything like it.

I'd challenge you for it but I don't have a clue what it's for. Maybe something related to heavy armour? Maybe something to do with being highest mass over support capacity? I'm a metalhead myself so I feel I should be up there too.

zxc with his scattershot approach again . I believe I recall from looking over the complete achievement values this morning that Happylisk is far in the lead on that one.

Question for K: Would the AI treat a robot being corrupted to death differently than a robot being blown up for security purposes?

Hm, because the game doesn't track what sources caused corruption (as it's an indirect form of damage that can come from many different origins and accumulate over time--more difficult to accurately track), I'll admit here that corrupted robots are ignored by the AI. So that was working in your favor (and may be a clue that EM weapons are too good--I may add a tracking system for at least primary corruption sources after all). However, I will say from look at your data that it wasn't the sole contributing factor to your low security level.

I think enemies defeated by system melting and system corruption ought to count in exactly the same way as those defeated by regular destruction, particularly regarding alert level and score.

I'll look into expanding the system to include both. Holding a tournament and getting everyone (especially myself) closely examining scoring and score sheets has made quite a few meaningful discoveries.

Also, minor bug: the scoresheet does not say how long you spent in waste, unlike other branches. 

Very odd. It appears to be working normally for some players. I do see it's missing from your winning record and you say you visited it so it really should be listed. Not sure why that would happen. It was just added to the system for the most recent release, the first new map area since the first alpha, and while it seemed like it was working fine maybe I forgot something? Thanks for letting me know; I'll investigate.

[mendonca]

The morgue file:

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Powered Armor
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Heat Sink
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Experimental Energy Well
  Advanced Force Field
  Large Storage Unit
  EM Shield
  Advanced Cooling System
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Long-range Tractor Beam
Weapon
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
[Rating: 169]

[close]

I mean, what does that even look like?

I don't know, but I had a go:

Spoiler

[close]

[zxc]

The morgue file:

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Powered Armor
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Heat Sink
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Experimental Energy Well
  Advanced Force Field
  Large Storage Unit
  EM Shield
  Advanced Cooling System
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Long-range Tractor Beam
Weapon
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
[Rating: 169]

[close]

I mean, what does that even look like?

I don't know, but I had a go:

Spoiler

[close]

Bahahaha! It's overweight on those little treads and everything. I love it! You're a fantastic artist!

[Reiver]

Also, Reiver why aren't you in the Challenge?

Because I've been eaten alive by work and illness simultaneously. I'll be starting my first run of the new alpha... um... tonight.

I guess there'll be a participation medal in it for me if I play really quickly...

[Kyzrati]

The morgue file:

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Powered Armor
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Heat Sink
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Experimental Energy Well
  Advanced Force Field
  Large Storage Unit
  EM Shield
  Advanced Cooling System
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Long-range Tractor Beam
Weapon
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
[Rating: 169]

[close]

I mean, what does that even look like?

I don't know, but I had a go:

Spoiler

[close]

Whoa, best Cogmind fan art I've seen so far! Requesting permission to pass it along

Also, Reiver why aren't you in the Challenge?

Because I've been eaten alive by work and illness simultaneously. I'll be starting my first run of the new alpha... um... tonight.

I guess there'll be a participation medal in it for me if I play really quickly...

Aw, sorry to hear that. It's pretty easy to at least get in there since all you need is to make it to -9.

[Kyzrati]

The last stats before The End. (After which will come more stats )

[zxc]

Those are some cool stats. You may already be planning it, but I'd like to see avg score by depth (maybe along with max/min scores at each depth). That would tell us where score really starts to ramp up (I think it would be at -3). And perhaps (avg) max influence by depth. Avg/min/max turns at each depth would be sweet (might have to skip depths where the run ended). Run length (in real-time) by depth. I guess I'm just interested in stats by depth.

[Kyzrati]

Hehe, data by depth is a fun to examine. Good suggestions! I'll see about doing those in my... copious spare time

That and some new types of graphs I wanted to start preparing are a few trends from throughout the event, though there are fewer interesting data points there. I'll also be reloading all the old graphs with new data from the Challenge as a whole.

[mendonca]

Bahahaha! It's overweight on those little treads and everything. I love it! You're a fantastic artist!

Whoa, best Cogmind fan art I've seen so far!

Thanks guys!

Requesting permission to pass it along

Of course, pass it wherever you must!

I'll also be reloading all the old graphs with new data from the Challenge as a whole.

Oh goodie, I did suspect you might do this, but I'm glad it's been confirmed.

[zxc]

I'm going to have a crack at improving my Best Escape score of 1.08 but no matter what, my stealth runs will lower my average score across all runs (currently 9.7k)

[Kyzrati]

Heh, it might be tough to top that considering you don't know the formula and it's not only based on speed, but you can try (and perhaps give Happylisk a chance to take your 1337 title if he's having another go or two at high scores ). Of course, you do currently hold 15 achievements already. (I'll admit 1337 is one of the most admirable, though.)

Oh goodie, I did suspect you might do this, but I'm glad it's been confirmed.

Sooo many stats.