Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22)

[zxc]

Also, while in my own experience storage units are rarely critted since the chances are quite low, I'm thinking it probably makes sense to make them immune to critical hits, just because of how annoying that is. Thoughts?

I'd personally love it. It would be a player buff, but I'd rather you create difficulty via other methods than the extremely annoying and random crit-losing storage units with key items spilling out everywhere. Also, managing a 41 item inventory is not easy. I'm also still waiting for the item swap mode

You know, I was thinking yesterday there has to be a point at which by taking up so many utility slots with storage you're really driving down your effectiveness overall.

I entirely agree, however I also think that even with much lower effectiveness you should still be much better off than without those 40 odd backup items. I keep running out of items  to use in my utility slots. I just fill them up with whatever I find, like target analysers and heat sinks, because anything is better than nothing. So, in that situation, having 40 backup items is far superior because I wouldn't even be able to make use of all the other utility slots. If we look back at all those screenshots I took of the turning points in my combat runs (check the theory-crafting OP) it is clear that the primary reason I die is due to running out of items, especially weapons. I also outline some thoughts in that post about storage.

Perhaps the answer is just don't get surrounded.  Easier said than done. 

Getting surrounded is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to you, in my opinion. I try to route myself to make it impossible to be surrounded, at least based on my knowledge of the map. Depending on your loadout, engaging in a bit of terraforming is another useful option

When programmers are en route, I've started waiting in a good spot rather than continuing to explore, just to take care of them safely and not get surrounded. One of the things I've started to learn recently.

[zxc]

Holy moly, -3 was tough. I was on the verge of collapse at times. But I've made it to -2, and I have a terminal right in front of me.

My biggest immediate problem is a lack of matter. I want to switch to my hacking items but that will cost a lot of matter... Not sure what to do. Probably have heaps of alert level due to the previous floor.

Screenshot

Spoiler

[close]

Edit:

Hacking pays off! Can hardly believe it.

Spoiler

[close]

Edit2:

Oh my goodness. The stairs were so close.

Spoiler

[close]

First time reaching -1 with a combat build! If I screw this up it will be unforgivable.

Oh I forgot I still have drones! I should use them early on.

Edit3:

Behemoth payday.

Spoiler

[close]

My only concern is my weak storage units. This is looking amazing right now. The tip to fight behemoths with EM weapons was an excellent one. Some programmers are on their way. I have a nearby terminal I'm going to try hacking the exit with once I kill the programmers. This is surely going to be the run.

Edit4:

This is intense. Currently playing really short sessions because I can't stand the thought of screwing up being this close to victory. Programmers keep getting called but haven't come across me yet. Like 4x now.

Spoiler

[close]

[Kyzrati]

Looking like a really hectic run, zxc! Damn you're carrying a lot of stuff... And it's not too surprising you managed to hack the exit earlier--that's a lot of Deep Network Scanners!

Good luck making it to the surface, and thanks for sharing.

When programmers are en route, I've started waiting in a good spot rather than continuing to explore, just to take care of them safely and not get surrounded. One of the things I've started to learn recently.

Absolutely. I don't always wait, since it can sometimes take them a while to reach your position, but with a combat build I would say it's best to change your movement tactics to make sure you can take cover and get in a defensive position as quickly as possible. (Even better to have sensors, honestly, even just a single-slot array, because when you see about two question marks coming straight towards your position non-stop you know what they are )

[Kyzrati]

Latest batch of stats from Days 1~7. Six days left!

[zxc]

The Access floor just got rekt.



I found the exit before long and my items and core integrity were so good that I decided to just go on a rampage around the map. Nothing could stop me!

I was still in pristine condition, but I escaped after a while of clearing a huge chunk of the floor because managing matter was annoying and I was getting impatient by that point to win. It was fun just destroying everything without any fear for once, and with a fully set-up build. By that point I was just leaving amazing items on the floor because I had so many, and I could pick them up at any time because I was literally clearing the floor of all robots and machines, so eventually no recyclers were around to take items. Chaos prevails over the forces of order.



Access was far easier than Research and actually probably Factory too.

Loot for days

Spoiler

[close]

Also I one-shot a behemoth.

The morgue file:

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (553)     2765
Value Destroyed (20848)    20848
Prototype IDs (33)         660
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (2000)               2000
              TOTAL SCORE: 30773

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             1399/1600
Matter                     300/300
Energy                     793/800
System Corruption          0%
Temperature                Cool (4)
Location                   Surface

Parts
-------
Power (3)
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (2)
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility (15)
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Force Field
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Focal Shield
  Improved System Restoration Module
  Long-range Tractor Beam
  Advanced Cooling System
  Advanced Targeting Computer
Weapon (5)
  Ragnarok Missile Launcher
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail

Inventory
-----------
Long-range Tractor Beam
Improved Particle Charger
Advanced Target Analyzer
Advanced Targeting Computer
Advanced Powered Armor
Improved Core Shielding
EM Shield
Insulated Heavy Armor
Improved Focal Shield
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Matter Compressor
Experimental Energy Well
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Cooling System
Advanced Heat Sink
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Multirail
Multirail
Compact HERF Cannon
Heavy Disruptor Cannon
Quantum Reactor
Quantum Reactor

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Powered Armor
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Heat Sink
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Experimental Energy Well
  Advanced Force Field
  Large Storage Unit
  EM Shield
  Advanced Cooling System
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Long-range Tractor Beam
Weapon
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
[Rating: 169]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Particle Reactor
  Engine                   F-Cell Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Particle Reactor
Propulsion                 Light Treads
  Treads                   Light Treads
  Leg                      Myomer Leg
  Hover Unit               Improved Anti-Grav System
Utility                    High-capacity Storage Unit
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Target Analyzer
  Hackware                 Deep Network Scanner
  Protection               Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Weapon                     Multirail
  Energy Gun               Tesla Rifle
  Energy Cannon            Compact HERF Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Multirail
  Ballistic Cannon         Fusion Cannon
  Launcher                 Ragnarok Missile Launcher

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          15
  Worker                   78
  Builder                  43
  Tunneler                 4
  Hauler                   28
  Recycler                 56
  Operator                 4
  Watcher                  24
  Swarmer                  48
  Grunt                    129
  Brawler                  7
  Duelist                  3
  Sentry                   41
  Hunter                   43
  Programmer               43
  Behemoth                 2
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           13
  Combat Bots Only         14
Matter Collected           23503
  Salvage Created          29657
Parts Attached             831
  Power                    70
  Propulsion               55
  Utility                  484
  Weapon                   222
Parts Lost                 166
  Power                    17
  Propulsion               14
  Utility                  76
  Weapon                   59
Average Slot Usage (%)     94
  Naked Turns              1
Spaces Moved               8816
  Fastest Speed (%)        200
  Slowest Speed (%)        3
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           15
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             207
  Greatest Overweight (x)  61
  Average Overweight (x)   2
Largest Inventory          50
  Most Items Carried       50
  Average Items Carried    32
Core Damage Taken          2754
Volleys Fired              1255
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  436
Shots Fired                4131
  Gun                      3375
  Cannon                   692
  Launcher                 64
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  2715
  Thermal                  780
  Explosive                53
  Electromagnetic          583
Shots Hit Robots           2451
  Core Hits                1233
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           61148
  Projectiles              53750
  Explosions               7350
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  48
Highest Temperature        424
  Average Temperature      57
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Interference             0
  Matter Decay             1
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         17
  Message Errors           128
  Parts Rejected           42
  Data loss (map)          150
  Data loss (database)     99
  Misfires                 22
  Misdirections            22
  Targeting Errors         188
  Weapon Failures          46
Haulers Intercepted        28
Robots Corrupted           11
Robots Melted              15
Tactical Retreats          49
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             6
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        41
  Terminals                32
  Fabricators              5
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          1
  Scanalyzers              3
Machines Hacked            35
  Terminals                28
  Fabricators              3
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          1
  Scanalyzers              3
Total Hacks                199
  Successful               68
  Failed                   131
  Catastrophic             41
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   123
  Terminals                160
  Fabricators              23
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          2
  Scanalyzers              14
Terminal Hacks             42
  Record                   9
  Part Schematic           1
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        2
  Open Door                0
  Level Access Points      3
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  2
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         1
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Alert Level              10
  Unreport Threat          10
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    2
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              2
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         93
  Full Trace Events        23
  Feedback Events          3
  Feedback Corruption      3
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   6
  Parts Built              8
  Total Part Build Rating  8
  Part Fabrication Matter  160
  Part Fabrication Time    480
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           5
  Part Schematics Acquired 5
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               18
  Largest Group            2
  Highest-Rated Group      10
  Highest-Rated Ally       5
Total Orders               6
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     6
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  0
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             1152
  Average Influence        272
Maximum Alert Level        3
  Low Security (%)         46
  Level 1                  25
  Level 2                  25
  Level 3                  2
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          70
  Investigation            25
  Extermination            23
  Reinforcement            19
  Assault                  3
Exploration Rate (%)       22
  Regions Visited          13
Turns Passed               28485
  Depth 11                 156
  Depth 10                 950
  Depth 9                  2384
  Depth 8                  1154
  Depth 7                  2575
  Depth 6                  1722
  Depth 5                  2518
  Depth 4                  2082
  Depth 3                  4193
  Depth 2                  854
  Depth 1                  9897
  Scrapyard                156
  Materials                4354
  Factory                  7264
  Research                 5047
  Access                   9897
  Mines                    134
  Storage                  1633

Prototype IDs
---------------
F-Cell Engine
Enhanced Fission Core
Graviton Reactor
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy Particle Gun
Advanced Beam Rifle
Advanced Plasma Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Improved Lightning Gun
Cooled Particle Cannon
Long-range Phase Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Tri-rail Accelerator
Mini Smartbomb Launcher
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Experimental Energy Well
Centrium Medium Armor Plating
Precision Energy Filter
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Advanced Overload Regulator
Improved Fusion Compressor

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1442397454
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 416 min
Sessions: 24
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 24
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 0
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50


X=9465625489311451900353272797
252120887223219328308080231297
021829130808391078832270572031
717703910170203301087851853913
731020978377882871750515278977
173928707793357555555553555555
595591337035557555535555555115
553550259300957355558887885585
755555555553557555553535353557
585755357223751759388353238309
883235807188350723255555555593
555821333079105377778851382073
035555353501279025518051081023
395535555558878311780181500130
852978910883879982111732108785
151739057351357855793083288190
230390377720210503200198785187
278357828232807730227291072220
013893113722557088055853855938
883800385557557755509880205702
05819078115512320

[close]

I killed four behemoths on -1 alone, so that display of two killed is definitely bugged. It should be about six or so. Edit: I took out most of them with corruption from EM weapons, which explains why they don't show up on the log. So everything is working as intended.

[Happylisk]

Congrats zxc!  Very, very impressive.  What a build.  You really beasted them.  Also, I totally know what you mean about short sessions.  Around -4 I begin playing in spurts of 10 min.  I have to take breaks just to make sure I don't get sloppy since so much concentration is required.   

I also found Access to be a bit less hellish than research.  I think that's just cause the gear lying around  there is so top notch.  Glad switching to emp for behemoths paid off.  That's probably why your behemoth kill count isn't 6 - robots corrupted to death don't count as your kill. 

I'm going to start using scanalyzers a lot more.  I never did before cause I wasn't fabricating.  Now, I'm going to make sure I scan my forcefields, targeting computers, and best battery at the very least.  Def. going to scan bay drone bays found in factory too.  I'm sure this will be a far easier way to get schematics than indirect hacks (and it'll free up terminals for other hacks).  Also, it'll make hacking suites more useful since scanning and fabbing utilizes direct hacks.  My game got a lot better once I understand how to use terminals properly. I suspect it'll get even better once I starting putting scanalyzers to proper use. 

Spoily question for K:

Spoiler

Is it possible to indirect hack a schematic for a drone, be it the one released from the drone bay or the one released by hunters (I believe the ones from hunters are called Fly)?  If so, would you mind giving me the rating number and robot name of those little beasties?  My thinking is, if the rating of a drone is less than the rating of a drone bay, it would be easier to indirect hack the drone schematic.  That in turn would basically turn fabricators into stationary drone bays.   I believe the drone's name is N-XX Fly, but I have no idea what the numbers are or whether it's even worthwhile trying to fab them separate from a bay). 

I am half tempted to experiment with combat allies, but I don't like the adding of making the security level go up more than it needs to and have no desire to see programmers turn my buddies against me. 

[close]

[zxc]

Thanks, yeah they got smashed.

Access was actually unusually easy. A bunch of times I was at the edges of the map and programmers never reached me. I was waiting by a terminal, making an unsuccessful attempt at locating the exit and waiting out the trace for at least a thousand turns. I never got the hack working (it was probably like 1% chance) so I gave up and left. I think Access might be bugged because even when I was running around annihilating the entire floor, more enemies would not come after me; Access was the calmest floor in the entire game.

EM is really good against behemoths. One or two hits and they die from system corruption. Maybe they're actually vulnerable to it? We don't have scanalyser data for behemoths on the wiki.

I scanned a bunch of low level stuff with the scanalyser, but I only fabricated one item: HCP storage units, which I think might be optimal. I couldn't fabricate enough of them. Later on you find plenty of other stuff, and behemoths are walking piles of loot (seriously, next time I'm going to actively seek out behemoths because the risk/reward is so much better than with other enemies). I actually carried a regular hacking suite just for fabricating, however I am pretty sure you can utilise indirect hacks for them too. I'm going to expand on a lot of these thoughts in the combat run theory-craft thread at some point, but I think deep network scanners should be stacked with a combat run (and in fact, all runs, ideally). I think a big reason why I succeeded in this run was because I was purging threat all through to Research.

[Happylisk]

I think that's right.  I think Purge threat is the primary indirect hack to use in Factory and research (further underscoring that schematics should be coming from scanalyzers, not indirect hacking).  I can see doing an index hack to find terminals or fabs, especially if you're running low on Hcp storage units, but otherwise purge all day long.  I also don't think Access(main) commands are necessary for factory once you have a handle on the mid-game. 

Out of curiosity, were you using EMP launchers against Behemoths, of HERF cannons?  I assume it wasn't emp rifles. 

I really wish Enumerate(Security) was level wide as opposed to local, since seeing which corners had sentries would give you a decent idea where the exit is. 

Spoiler

It's possible that enumerate security is more useful in Access, since spotting the double behemoths = exit.  I'm not sure if that command lists behemoths though, or if it just lists sentries.  Further testing needed.

[close]

I discovered something that's meta-gaming but it's made my factory runs  easier:

Spoiler

Every time I start a factory level, I hold down alt and scroll around with the arrows.  This moves the map around.  By seeing how far or how little I can scroll, I can instantly tell which corner of the map I'm in.  I then hug the perimeter of the map and travel to the next corner.  It's dramatically speeded up finding exits.  It also helps that I generally have a better feel for how the maps look.

[close]

[boomblip]

The Access floor just got rekt.



I found the exit before long and my items and core integrity were so good that I decided to just go on a rampage around the map. Nothing could stop me!

I was still in pristine condition, but I escaped after a while of clearing a huge chunk of the floor because managing matter was annoying and I was getting impatient by that point to win. It was fun just destroying everything without any fear for once, and with a fully set-up build. By that point I was just leaving amazing items on the floor because I had so many, and I could pick them up at any time because I was literally clearing the floor of all robots and machines, so eventually no recyclers were around to take items. Chaos prevails over the forces of order.



Access was far easier than Research and actually probably Factory too.

Loot for days

Spoiler

[close]

Also I one-shot a behemoth.

The morgue file:

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: zzxc

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (553)     2765
Value Destroyed (20848)    20848
Prototype IDs (33)         660
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (2000)               2000
              TOTAL SCORE: 30773

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             1399/1600
Matter                     300/300
Energy                     793/800
System Corruption          0%
Temperature                Cool (4)
Location                   Surface

Parts
-------
Power (3)
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (2)
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility (15)
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Force Field
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Focal Shield
  Improved System Restoration Module
  Long-range Tractor Beam
  Advanced Cooling System
  Advanced Targeting Computer
Weapon (5)
  Ragnarok Missile Launcher
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail

Inventory
-----------
Long-range Tractor Beam
Improved Particle Charger
Advanced Target Analyzer
Advanced Targeting Computer
Advanced Powered Armor
Improved Core Shielding
EM Shield
Insulated Heavy Armor
Improved Focal Shield
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Matter Compressor
Experimental Energy Well
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Cooling System
Advanced Heat Sink
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Linear Accelerator
Multirail
Multirail
Compact HERF Cannon
Heavy Disruptor Cannon
Quantum Reactor
Quantum Reactor

Peak State
------------
Power
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Light Quantum Reactor
  Particle Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Powered Armor
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Heat Sink
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Large Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Experimental Energy Well
  Advanced Force Field
  Large Storage Unit
  EM Shield
  Advanced Cooling System
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Long-range Tractor Beam
Weapon
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
  Multirail
[Rating: 169]

Favorites
-----------
Power                      Particle Reactor
  Engine                   F-Cell Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Particle Reactor
Propulsion                 Light Treads
  Treads                   Light Treads
  Leg                      Myomer Leg
  Hover Unit               Improved Anti-Grav System
Utility                    High-capacity Storage Unit
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Target Analyzer
  Hackware                 Deep Network Scanner
  Protection               Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Weapon                     Multirail
  Energy Gun               Tesla Rifle
  Energy Cannon            Compact HERF Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Multirail
  Ballistic Cannon         Fusion Cannon
  Launcher                 Ragnarok Missile Launcher

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          15
  Worker                   78
  Builder                  43
  Tunneler                 4
  Hauler                   28
  Recycler                 56
  Operator                 4
  Watcher                  24
  Swarmer                  48
  Grunt                    129
  Brawler                  7
  Duelist                  3
  Sentry                   41
  Hunter                   43
  Programmer               43
  Behemoth                 2
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           13
  Combat Bots Only         14
Matter Collected           23503
  Salvage Created          29657
Parts Attached             831
  Power                    70
  Propulsion               55
  Utility                  484
  Weapon                   222
Parts Lost                 166
  Power                    17
  Propulsion               14
  Utility                  76
  Weapon                   59
Average Slot Usage (%)     94
  Naked Turns              1
Spaces Moved               8816
  Fastest Speed (%)        200
  Slowest Speed (%)        3
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           15
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             207
  Greatest Overweight (x)  61
  Average Overweight (x)   2
Largest Inventory          50
  Most Items Carried       50
  Average Items Carried    32
Core Damage Taken          2754
Volleys Fired              1255
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  436
Shots Fired                4131
  Gun                      3375
  Cannon                   692
  Launcher                 64
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  2715
  Thermal                  780
  Explosive                53
  Electromagnetic          583
Shots Hit Robots           2451
  Core Hits                1233
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           61148
  Projectiles              53750
  Explosions               7350
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  48
Highest Temperature        424
  Average Temperature      57
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Interference             0
  Matter Decay             1
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         17
  Message Errors           128
  Parts Rejected           42
  Data loss (map)          150
  Data loss (database)     99
  Misfires                 22
  Misdirections            22
  Targeting Errors         188
  Weapon Failures          46
Haulers Intercepted        28
Robots Corrupted           11
Robots Melted              15
Tactical Retreats          49
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             6
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        41
  Terminals                32
  Fabricators              5
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          1
  Scanalyzers              3
Machines Hacked            35
  Terminals                28
  Fabricators              3
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          1
  Scanalyzers              3
Total Hacks                199
  Successful               68
  Failed                   131
  Catastrophic             41
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   123
  Terminals                160
  Fabricators              23
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          2
  Scanalyzers              14
Terminal Hacks             42
  Record                   9
  Part Schematic           1
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        2
  Open Door                0
  Level Access Points      3
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  2
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         1
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Alert Level              10
  Unreport Threat          10
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    2
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              2
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         93
  Full Trace Events        23
  Feedback Events          3
  Feedback Corruption      3
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   6
  Parts Built              8
  Total Part Build Rating  8
  Part Fabrication Matter  160
  Part Fabrication Time    480
Parts Repaired             0
  Part Repair Time         0
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           5
  Part Schematics Acquired 5
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               18
  Largest Group            2
  Highest-Rated Group      10
  Highest-Rated Ally       5
Total Orders               6
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     6
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  0
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             1152
  Average Influence        272
Maximum Alert Level        3
  Low Security (%)         46
  Level 1                  25
  Level 2                  25
  Level 3                  2
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          70
  Investigation            25
  Extermination            23
  Reinforcement            19
  Assault                  3
Exploration Rate (%)       22
  Regions Visited          13
Turns Passed               28485
  Depth 11                 156
  Depth 10                 950
  Depth 9                  2384
  Depth 8                  1154
  Depth 7                  2575
  Depth 6                  1722
  Depth 5                  2518
  Depth 4                  2082
  Depth 3                  4193
  Depth 2                  854
  Depth 1                  9897
  Scrapyard                156
  Materials                4354
  Factory                  7264
  Research                 5047
  Access                   9897
  Mines                    134
  Storage                  1633

Prototype IDs
---------------
F-Cell Engine
Enhanced Fission Core
Graviton Reactor
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy Particle Gun
Advanced Beam Rifle
Advanced Plasma Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Improved Lightning Gun
Cooled Particle Cannon
Long-range Phase Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Tri-rail Accelerator
Mini Smartbomb Launcher
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Enhanced Gamma Bomb Array
Experimental Energy Well
Centrium Medium Armor Plating
Precision Energy Filter
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Advanced Overload Regulator
Improved Fusion Compressor

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1442397454
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 416 min
Sessions: 24
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 24
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 0
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50


X=9465625489311451900353272797
252120887223219328308080231297
021829130808391078832270572031
717703910170203301087851853913
731020978377882871750515278977
173928707793357555555553555555
595591337035557555535555555115
553550259300957355558887885585
755555555553557555553535353557
585755357223751759388353238309
883235807188350723255555555593
555821333079105377778851382073
035555353501279025518051081023
395535555558878311780181500130
852978910883879982111732108785
151739057351357855793083288190
230390377720210503200198785187
278357828232807730227291072220
013893113722557088055853855938
883800385557557755509880205702
05819078115512320

[close]

I killed four behemoths on -1 alone, so that display of two killed is definitely bugged. It should be about six or so. Edit: I took out most of them with corruption from EM weapons, which explains why they don't show up on the log. So everything is working as intended.

WOW what a run.  Definitely been focusing more on hacking to keep threat levels down but research consistently wrecks me.  Headed out to the woods for a few days, been a busy week, so I've been watching everyone's score climb, plan on giving a few more tries next week once my life chills out.

[Kyzrati]

Congratulations zxc, that's a sick score, no doubt pumped up by your Access rampage.

Access was far easier than Research and actually probably Factory too.

This is a side effect of several factors. Notice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger. Thus over the past months players are either stopped in Research or will probably escape, but not usually get stuck in Access itself--if you can get to Access in good shape your chances of making it out increase.

More powerful robots will be waiting for you in the late-game branches if you decide to take those routes for the harder endings.

Another part of the reason you found it easier than you otherwise might have in terms of Programmers and the food clock is that I reduced their frequency significantly for Alpha 3, especially in the end game.

Not sure about the lack of assault squads if you were causing that much destruction in Assault, but it could be caused by them not having enough time to respond yet, or you were purging threats. (?)

Spoily question for K:

Spoiler

Is it possible to indirect hack a schematic for a drone, be it the one released from the drone bay or the one released by hunters (I believe the ones from hunters are called Fly)?  If so, would you mind giving me the rating number and robot name of those little beasties?  My thinking is, if the rating of a drone is less than the rating of a drone bay, it would be easier to indirect hack the drone schematic.  That in turn would basically turn fabricators into stationary drone bays.   I believe the drone's name is N-XX Fly, but I have no idea what the numbers are or whether it's even worthwhile trying to fab them separate from a bay). 

I am half tempted to experiment with combat allies, but I don't like the adding of making the security level go up more than it needs to and have no desire to see programmers turn my buddies against me. 

[close]

Nope,

Spoiler

The N-00 Fly is only launched by Hunters, and your own drones have no designation and cannot be fabricated. That would be OP. If you call them back to re-dock they are fully repaired, though (not that they can easily survive a confrontation once it's begun--their advantage is not getting hit in the first place)

You can consider using Swarmers as makeshift drones. They're actually faster than drones, though more likely to be hit, and will engage targets rather than flee.

What you need are some Programmer allies

[close]

I discovered something that's meta-gaming but it's made my factory runs  easier:

Spoiler

Every time I start a factory level, I hold down alt and scroll around with the arrows.  This moves the map around.  By seeing how far or how little I can scroll, I can instantly tell which corner of the map I'm in.  I then hug the perimeter of the map and travel to the next corner.  It's dramatically speeded up finding exits.  It also helps that I generally have a better feel for how the maps look.

[close]

I was wondering when someone would notice this. It's not obvious right away in Cogmind, though technically it's a common feature of many traditional roguelikes.

Definitely been focusing more on hacking to keep threat levels down but research consistently wrecks me.

As explained above that's the most difficult area of the game, so get over that hump and you should be able to pull off a win.

[Kyzrati]

Of the 64 total achievements, 17 have been fully revealed so far:

• 1337
• Always Prepared
• Assembly Line
• Center of Attention
• Deathwish
• Giant Slayer
• Gladiator
• Hotshot
• Librarian
• Night Owl
• Packrat
• Scavenger
• System Compromised
• Unperturbed
• Unstoppable
• War Machine
• WMD

Six days left!

[zxc]

Thanks folks.

Notice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger.

This is a good point, but I'm mostly referring to the number of enemies rather than how strong they were individually.

Another part of the reason you found it easier than you otherwise might have in terms of Programmers and the food clock is that I reduced their frequency significantly for Alpha 3, especially in the end game.

Their frequency seems good - the problem is that programmers were being sent (according to the log) but not finding me. This happened at least a dozen times while I was around the edges of the map attempting to hack the exit location.

Not sure about the lack of assault squads if you were causing that much destruction in Assault, but it could be caused by them not having enough time to respond yet, or you were purging threats. (?)

The last time I purged threat was on -3 I believe. No assault squads were ever sent on -1. It's like my alert level was permanently stuck at a low one for the duration of -1. -3 on the other hand was so full of enemies that I could barely move without encountering more. So either there is some weird issue with -1, or it's intended to be much calmer than Research.

I discovered something that's meta-gaming but it's made my factory runs  easier:

Spoiler

Every time I start a factory level, I hold down alt and scroll around with the arrows.  This moves the map around.  By seeing how far or how little I can scroll, I can instantly tell which corner of the map I'm in.  I then hug the perimeter of the map and travel to the next corner.  It's dramatically speeded up finding exits.  It also helps that I generally have a better feel for how the maps look.

[close]

I was wondering when someone would notice this. It's not obvious right away in Cogmind, though technically it's a common feature of many traditional roguelikes.

This is interesting, and I hadn't tried to do this although I look around the map a lot. Shouldn't it be simple to prevent this from being effective if you wished?

Out of curiosity, were you using EMP launchers against Behemoths, of HERF cannons?  I assume it wasn't emp rifles. 

I was using a mixture of EM weapons against the Behemoths. Some HERF cannons and some programmer rifles. It was extremely effective.

I didn't make much use of launchers throughout this run. I found that, other than an explosive launcher for the odd Swarmer group, they weren't so effective. This is partially because I didn't find many great launchers until the 9* one at the very end (which still took several shots to kill grunts, while I could one-shot them with my guns), and partially because I avoided open areas where possible and stuck to small corridors in order to more safely fight fewer enemies at a time.

[Kyzrati]

Notice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger.

This is a good point, but I'm mostly referring to the number of enemies rather than how strong they were individually.

I was going to point out that it could be overcome by increasing the number of enemies, but then you'd likely be more easily overwhelmed. Unless perhaps you're carrying 40 inventory items, which we need to do something about

Another part of the reason you found it easier than you otherwise might have in terms of Programmers and the food clock is that I reduced their frequency significantly for Alpha 3, especially in the end game.

Their frequency seems good - the problem is that programmers were being sent (according to the log) but not finding me. This happened at least a dozen times while I was around the edges of the map attempting to hack the exit location.

Okay, that might be a problem. I'll look into it because it could be a factor of the access points being blocked off (though they're not supposed to enter from those).

Spoiler

Actually, now that I think of it that must be it because all exits from Access are locked away. This issue would block assault squads as well! This will be more easily resolved if and when the garrison mechanic is added, which I wanted to add soonish...

[close]

Oops, you had it a little easier than you should have

This is interesting, and I hadn't tried to do this although I look around the map a lot. Shouldn't it be simple to prevent this from being effective if you wished?

Not too simple, no. You'd have to fake some map UI interactions while the cursor is outside the map, and do it in multiple modes. Even more difficult to address: If you allow the player to scroll indefinitely even beyond the edges of the map they could get lost (unless familiar with the "press Enter to recenter" command). Not very friendly...

[zxc]

Notice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger.

This is a good point, but I'm mostly referring to the number of enemies rather than how strong they were individually.

I was going to point out that it could be overcome by increasing the number of enemies, but then you'd likely be more easily overwhelmed. Unless perhaps you're carrying 40 inventory items, which we need to do something about

I just think it should be in line with Research. And no doubt maxing out your inventory capacity is the optimal strategy, but I think carrying a ton of items like that is the best way of reducing the variance of the run and of controlling your item situation. I don't know how you're meant to cope if your treads get crit-destroyed and you have no more backups, and hunters are shooting at you through the wall and you can't move to take a shot at them because of a 2k delay (this happened to me at one point that run)...

Another part of the reason you found it easier than you otherwise might have in terms of Programmers and the food clock is that I reduced their frequency significantly for Alpha 3, especially in the end game.

Their frequency seems good - the problem is that programmers were being sent (according to the log) but not finding me. This happened at least a dozen times while I was around the edges of the map attempting to hack the exit location.

Okay, that might be a problem. I'll look into it because it could be a factor of the access points being blocked off (though they're not supposed to enter from those).

Spoiler

Actually, now that I think of it that must be it because all exits from Access are locked away. This issue would block assault squads as well! This will be more easily resolved if and when the garrison mechanic is added, which I wanted to add soonish...

[close]

Oops, you had it a little easier than you should have

I did think something was wrong to this effect. Still though, once I took out that first behemoth I was all set; the game was mine to lose. No assault squadrons were even sent in the log. Programmers did eventually find me when I moved away from the map edges to look for the exit though. Maybe they were regular programmers patrolling around rather than the ones actually sent for me? I actually wanted squads to come for me because I was prepared to annihilate them standing by the exit.

This is interesting, and I hadn't tried to do this although I look around the map a lot. Shouldn't it be simple to prevent this from being effective if you wished?

Not too simple, no. You'd have to fake some map UI interactions while the cursor is outside the map, and do it in multiple modes. Even more difficult to address: If you allow the player to scroll indefinitely even beyond the edges of the map they could get lost (unless familiar with the "press Enter to recenter" command). Not very friendly...

[/quote]
You could have it detect when the player has scrolled away sufficiently and just display a small message saying 'Press Enter to reset your view' or something to that effect. In any case I won't be using this method because finding exits in Factory is easy enough. Finding exits in Research, on the other hand...

[Kyzrati]

I just think it should be in line with Research.

Aside from the slight level gap that starts to grow by then, it would be if you had the normal squads on your tail. Although the map is more open so the dynamics of encounters would be a little different from Research.

And no doubt maxing out your inventory capacity is the optimal strategy, but I think carrying a ton of items like that is the best way of reducing the variance of the run and of controlling your item situation.

Carrying useful spares is definitely important, though not quite that many. I think (ideally) one or two storage units should be enough for a combat run.

Maybe they were regular programmers patrolling around rather than the ones actually sent for me? I actually wanted squads to come for me because I was prepared to annihilate them standing by the exit.

Yeah those would have been regular patrols.

And if you'd engaged the Programmers that weren't coming you may have ended up facing assault squads, too, due to the extra destruction, but it's hard to say.

I can see you standing on the exit lift, guns and cannons blazing as you give them a goodbye present to remember you by.

You could have it detect when the player has scrolled away sufficiently and just display a small message saying 'Press Enter to reset your view' or something to that effect. In any case I won't be using this method because finding exits in Factory is easy enough. Finding exits in Research, on the other hand...

It's possible, though in all it would be a lot of work to prevent a practice that may not always be so beneficial, and could even send you in the wrong/worse direction depending on the internal layout.

[zxc]

Some assorted thoughts:

If you want to nerf storage units, I think you can simply remove HCP. Storage Units. Then Large Storage Units will be the biggest. However, I think for a trade, it would be good to remove player items getting insta-destroyed by crits. Also, saboteurs blasting off storage units are the worst, but I realise they're meant to be nasty.

A hotkey to enable all weapons (and disable all weapons) would be great. Something like Ctrl-[. Often I want to disable all weapons but my launcher, or vice versa. Other times I just want to enable my energy weapons to not spend matter, or just a single weapon to scare off a Recycler, or a single cannon to make a hole in the wall. I'd make use of a similar hotkey for enabling/disabling all propulsion as well (Ctrl-= ?), for energy min-maxing when resting, but that's only relevant for non-combat runs and even then, not so often.

It is rather annoying that when one of your weapons misfires due to system corruption, they all seem to get disabled. I'm not there is a point to this, because even when you have them disabled, they can still misfire. So it just results in more key-presses to turn everything back on again.

Behemoths could use a defensive buff I think. Obviously something innate, as they come with great defensive items already. Their huge size makes them very easy to hit, and they seem to get destroyed by system corruption really fast, though I haven't tried full EM weapon volleys on other enemies all that much. A single Hunter is a lot harder to kill I find, for my combat Cogminds.

Is there a way to 'shout' to get the attention of nearby enemies?

[mendonca]

First of all congratulation, zxc, that is an incredible run. Considering you spent ~40% of the run in Access, I bow to your powers of concentration. By -3 I think I'm psychically damaged by the attrition more than physically, and wonder if a little more positivity (or negativity) in taking my 58th tactical escape (57 is my limit, man) - I would have at least lasted a bit longer.

Looking at the top scores, -3 clearly is a big wall for lots of players. Wonder how much is mental ...

I had a thought regarding the 1-tread build (and also perhaps in general regarding tactical escapes) - and getting these unexpectedly shot off. A utility that allows you to 'emergency detach' all items in a standard turn, to make a run for it (you don't want to stand in a firefight carefully removing items one at a time to get your speed up to something reasonable) would certainly make sense lore-wise (viewing the Cogmind as the 'core') - but might not be well balanced.  Perhaps could be done so by applying an energy / matter cost (you need to plan the emergency detach procedure at least a little bit).

[zxc]

First of all congratulation, zxc, that is an incredible run.

Thanks!

Considering you spent ~40% of the run in Access, I bow to your powers of concentration. By -3 I think I'm psychically damaged by the attrition more than physically, and wonder if a little more positivity (or negativity) in taking my 58th tactical escape (57 is my limit, man) - I would have at least lasted a bit longer.

Quite a bit of those turns spent in Access were in waiting out terminal traces while trying to hack the exit location, which I eventually gave up trying. I was confident in being able to find the exit by just exploring, but since enemies couldn't find me at the terminal I thought it was safer to try and hack the exit that way. The attrition does take a massive toll. I think my earlier posts that I made during the run show my rising levels of stress . Especially when you keep making these combat runs that get far but not far enough.

Looking at the top scores, -3 clearly is a big wall for lots of players. Wonder how much is mental ...

I fully believe (and Kyzrati does too I think) that Research is the hardest part of the game. The levels are less open compared with Factory, and enemies seem more concentrated. Plus, the enemies reach their final tiers. To add to all that, there are many dead-ends, making navigation difficult and time-consuming (which results in more attrition as more enemies find you while back-tracking, which results in further increases to alert level and so on). Plus because the levels are less open than Factory, it becomes very hard to avoid key enemies like Carriers and assault teams.

In this run -3 was still the hardest floor, but I managed to stay intact and maintain my build during its most testing moments. Also, I kept stepping on traps that destroyed my treads, and got critted to lose my 100% integrity treads constantly... And when I killed a sentry I couldn't even reach its loot before more enemies were upon me, and the treads were recycled. I don't understand how my propulsion could get so unlucky.

These screenshots show quiet moments amidst a lot of fighting, which I feared would lead to a feedback loop of endless enemies until my build collapsed (without my Adv. Force Field it's very possible I would have collapsed):

In the first one, there are two hunters on the other side of the wall shooting me, but I have no propulsion. I had to destroy the wall with cannons in order to hit them.

Spoiler

[close]

I had a thought regarding the 1-tread build (and also perhaps in general regarding tactical escapes) - and getting these unexpectedly shot off. A utility that allows you to 'emergency detach' all items in a standard turn, to make a run for it (you don't want to stand in a firefight carefully removing items one at a time to get your speed up to something reasonable) would certainly make sense lore-wise (viewing the Cogmind as the 'core') - but might not be well balanced.  Perhaps could be done so by applying an energy / matter cost (you need to plan the emergency detach procedure at least a little bit).

I've thought about this quite a bit as well. It was really hard to throw off my storage units to lower my mass enough to escape. Honestly, it should let you drop storage units and all the excess items in one action, like as though it got blown off. In this screenshot I wanted to transition into flight, but it's almost quicker to let my storage units get blown off.

Spoiler

[close]

Separate request for Kyzrati: sort by rating for inventory? Decent idea or no? I mostly use sort by type currently, but maybe sort by rating would be useful as a shortcut to finding your 'worst' inventory items to more quickly work out what to drop for a shiny new item on the floor.

[Happylisk]

Reading this discussion about how Access is easier than research is making me a sad panda indeed.  My guy on Access probably would have made it if I

Spoiler

didn't stupidly (and needlessly) walk past the 2 behemoths guarding Command after hacking down the gates, which cost me all of my armor and guns. 

[close]

My current run is a spectacular exercise in fail.  I found storage so ended up with tons of drone bays, launchers, and storage units.  (scanalyzing a drone bay schematic afterwords was easy as pie).  I'm sitting on Factory -5 with like 4 different guided launchers.  The problem is I'm basically out of everything else.  The security level is rising and with my launchers I can squelch assault squads... which makes the level just go higher.  I had to put the run down for work, but I imagine I'll get home, fire up cogmind, and die spectacularly in about 5 minutes. 

A part of me wants to try an ally based build revolving around allied programmers (you wouldn't need too many weapons or coolant systems) but I'm going to save all experimentation for after the tournament. 

I'm assuming we'll go back to weekly seed runs once this is over?

[zxc]

Reading this discussion about how Access is easier than research is making me a sad panda indeed.

A large part of why Access is easier than Research is because it's more predictable ie. after you've been there several times, you know what you're doing. My first time in Research was much like yours, although I didn't try to fight any enemies.

My current run is a spectacular exercise in fail.  I found storage so ended up with tons of drone bays, launchers, and storage units.  (scanalyzing a drone bay schematic afterwords was easy as pie).  I'm sitting on Factory -5 with like 4 different guided launchers.  The problem is I'm basically out of everything else.  The security level is rising and with my launchers I can squelch assault squads... which makes the level just go higher.  I had to put the run down for work, but I imagine I'll get home, fire up cogmind, and die spectacularly in about 5 minutes. 

That does sound like you're going to be in some trouble soon. It'd be great if you could purge some alert levels. If you have the space, you can gear up quite fast by killing some guys, but armour and key defensive items like force fields aren't going to be easy to find.

A part of me wants to try an ally based build revolving around allied programmers (you wouldn't need too many weapons or coolant systems) but I'm going to save all experimentation for after the tournament. 

That'd be interesting. Not my cup of tea however. After the challenge, I'm going to go off and try to read all the records currently in the game, and try to get some screenshots for my guide.

I'm assuming we'll go back to weekly seed runs once this is over?

Sure thing. I see no reason why we wouldn't continue them.

[Happylisk]

That does sound like you're going to be in some trouble soon. It'd be great if you could purge some alert levels. If you have the space, you can gear up quite fast by killing some guys, but armour and key defensive items like force fields aren't going to be easy to find.

Oh I'm in trouble now.  My treads got blown off right before I stopped, and I'm out of spares.  I have to hope for a hauler to come by ASAP and drop one.  And you're right, forcefields are so preciously rare.  I'm tempted to dive into waste if I can and hope for the best.  It's either that, or deploying one of my drone bays and hoping for a quick exit to drop the alert level. 

K's right - I currently have 36 inventory space, which is far more than I normally roll with, and it's hurting my combat effectiveness.  I think I'm going to go back to slightly smaller inventories in future runs (20ish) and only crank up the space around -4 or -3. 

EDIT: I wonder how viable it would be to fabricate Protector class allies to supplement your defenses...

[Kyzrati]

If you want to nerf storage units, I think you can simply remove HCP. Storage Units. Then Large Storage Units will be the biggest. However, I think for a trade, it would be good to remove player items getting insta-destroyed by crits. Also, saboteurs blasting off storage units are the worst, but I realise they're meant to be nasty.

I might agree that the player's parts should be immune to crits. They're quite deadly and can suddenly ruin everything--at the wrong time a string of bad rolls can bury you in short order. (A related issue: Player parts are already immune to disruption, for the same reason.)

Another option would be to keep that feature and add a new type of part that can prevent against it (or add this as a feature of one or more existing defensive parts).

Or perhaps make Cogmind parts immune to crits unless already at < 25% integrity. In any case, I was already planning to make Storage Units themselves outright immune to crits.

A hotkey to enable all weapons (and disable all weapons) would be great. Something like Ctrl-[. Often I want to disable all weapons but my launcher, or vice versa. Other times I just want to enable my energy weapons to not spend matter, or just a single weapon to scare off a Recycler, or a single cannon to make a hole in the wall. I'd make use of a similar hotkey for enabling/disabling all propulsion as well (Ctrl-= ?), for energy min-maxing when resting, but that's only relevant for non-combat runs and even then, not so often.

Good ideas.

It is rather annoying that when one of your weapons misfires due to system corruption, they all seem to get disabled. I'm not there is a point to this, because even when you have them disabled, they can still misfire. So it just results in more key-presses to turn everything back on again.

Adraius and I discussed this somewhere recently (can't find the post). It's due to how the player UI and fire control system work--a programming issue. I'll code a workaround to make it more friendly.

Behemoths could use a defensive buff I think. Obviously something innate, as they come with great defensive items already. Their huge size makes them very easy to hit, and they seem to get destroyed by system corruption really fast, though I haven't tried full EM weapon volleys on other enemies all that much. A single Hunter is a lot harder to kill I find, for my combat Cogminds.

Behemoths are already somewhat resistant to EM, unlike most other front-line units. The real buff would be to give them greater core integrity, or reduce their core coverage.

I've always thought EM in general might be an OP damage type, especially by the end of the game, though surprisingly you don't use it much.

Is there a way to 'shout' to get the attention of nearby enemies?

Only by shooting non-combat robots, or of course being spotted directly or by a Watcher. I wonder if adding such a feature would be too effective a tactical move.

I had a thought regarding the 1-tread build (and also perhaps in general regarding tactical escapes) - and getting these unexpectedly shot off. A utility that allows you to 'emergency detach' all items in a standard turn, to make a run for it (you don't want to stand in a firefight carefully removing items one at a time to get your speed up to something reasonable) would certainly make sense lore-wise (viewing the Cogmind as the 'core') - but might not be well balanced.  Perhaps could be done so by applying an energy / matter cost (you need to plan the emergency detach procedure at least a little bit).

I remember a similar discussion during the 7DRL, or perhaps it was way back when I was brainstorming the new version... either way, I think it fits just fine into the lore, and would be a valid option. I don't see it being particularly unbalanced since you'd be giving up everything except 4 inventory items. Other opinions? Imagine having had this option available on previous runs--would it have meant anything for you?

Separate request for Kyzrati: sort by rating for inventory? Decent idea or no? I mostly use sort by type currently, but maybe sort by rating would be useful as a shortcut to finding your 'worst' inventory items to more quickly work out what to drop for a shiny new item on the floor.

Unless you have a ridiculous inventory size and it's filled with a lot of same-category items, I think type-sorting combined with 'q' mode is plenty good enough there. (Plus adding a new one would mess up the conveniently understandable keyboard scheme).

Reading this discussion about how Access is easier than research is making me a sad panda indeed.  My guy on Access probably would have made it if I

I was thinking about you during this discussion, and when you first reported it imagined that you really should have won that run

I'm sitting on Factory -5 with like 4 different guided launchers.  The problem is I'm basically out of everything else.

That seems to be one of my own trappings--ooh stash of launchers I'll just carry all of them. My last game ended not long after I emptied my inventory to carry four Guided Mini-nuke Launchers . It was great blowing everything to hell, but when I wasn't in a good position to use them I got picked apart; and matter was an issue. Should have just brought one and kept myself a little more versatile.

A part of me wants to try an ally based build revolving around allied programmers (you wouldn't need too many weapons or coolant systems) but I'm going to save all experimentation for after the tournament. 

I'm assuming we'll go back to weekly seed runs once this is over?

Yep. I'd appreciate if someone else wants to take over management if jimmijamjams doesn't have time to do it anymore. I can provide the BBCode/content for the current format to save time--it's just a matter of coming up with a seed name and taking a couple screenshots.

A large part of why Access is easier than Research is because it's more predictable ie. after you've been there several times, you know what you're doing. My first time in Research was much like yours, although I didn't try to fight any enemies.

I imagine getting a stealth win before a combat is a better idea, since the former can be achieved more quickly and allow you to scope out the maps rather than doing so slowly and without as many supporting sensors.

[zxc]

K's right - I currently have 36 inventory space, which is far more than I normally roll with, and it's hurting my combat effectiveness.  I think I'm going to go back to slightly smaller inventories in future runs (20ish) and only crank up the space around -4 or -3. 

My combat effectiveness was sky high with a large inventory, because all you need to fight is power sources, treads, some useful utilities, and lots and lots of guns. When something gets destroyed, it gets replaced by a backup, and I can continue fighting. It seems the problem here is that you didn't have enough backup items (or the right backup items), which can make the large inventory seem rather ineffectual. I believe maximising your inventory (to a point) is optimal in the current Alpha.

Some screenshots in Factory of my run:

Spoiler

[close]

Behemoths are already somewhat resistant to EM, unlike most other front-line units. The real buff would be to give them greater core integrity, or reduce their core coverage.

I've always thought EM in general might be an OP damage type, especially by the end of the game, though surprisingly you don't use it much.

It could be that it's OP at late-game. I've used it a lot early and mid-game, but found that kinetic seemed more effective, as well as not generating as much heat / spending as much energy. Will have to experiment more. Those behemoths were just going down after a couple of EM volleys, by system corruption.

Is there a way to 'shout' to get the attention of nearby enemies?

Only by shooting non-combat robots, or of course being spotted directly or by a Watcher. I wonder if adding such a feature would be too effective a tactical move.

The situation I was thinking of was for luring sentries off their posts, so that my stealth builds could exit more easily. Right now I have to stand in the open and take a hit in order to get the sentry's attention, and then kite it to move it off the exit. However, shouting could be useful when you are in a tactically advantageous position and wish to fight.

Separate request for Kyzrati: sort by rating for inventory? Decent idea or no? I mostly use sort by type currently, but maybe sort by rating would be useful as a shortcut to finding your 'worst' inventory items to more quickly work out what to drop for a shiny new item on the floor.

Unless you have a ridiculous inventory size and it's filled with a lot of same-category items, I think type-sorting combined with 'q' mode is plenty good enough there. (Plus adding a new one would mess up the conveniently understandable keyboard scheme).

I would agree there. I did have a ridiculous inventory, reaching a max of 50 at one point. Wouldn't adding that mode be simply a matter of adding the letter 'r' to sort by inventory? Right now 'r' stops running right? But escape serves the same purpose.

Yep. I'd appreciate if someone else wants to take over management if jimmijamjams doesn't have time to do it anymore. I can provide the BBCode/content for the current format to save time--it's just a matter of coming up with a seed name and taking a couple screenshots.

I could perhaps try doing it. Maybe we can all take turns managing it

I imagine getting a stealth win before a combat is a better idea, since the former can be achieved more quickly and allow you to scope out the maps rather than doing so slowly and without as many supporting sensors.

I agree here. Playing stealth allows you to see map layouts and patrol patterns, learn how to find exits and secret doors, and so on. You might not be able to focus on these things all the time with a combat build either, as you're always up to your neck in enemies to deal with.

[Kyzrati]

Behemoths are already somewhat resistant to EM, unlike most other front-line units. The real buff would be to give them greater core integrity, or reduce their core coverage.

I've always thought EM in general might be an OP damage type, especially by the end of the game, though surprisingly you don't use it much.

It could be that it's OP at late-game. I've used it a lot early and mid-game, but found that kinetic seemed more effective, as well as not generating as much heat / spending as much energy. Will have to experiment more. Those behemoths were just going down after a couple of EM volleys, by system corruption.

It's a better late-game tactic because robots are just as susceptible to EM as they were at the beginning (since it's on its own scale), but the weapons do significantly more damage.

By the end with a full EM loadout you should be able to take out almost anything quickly, as long as you can hit it, so Behemoths are extra easy in that regard. The drawback was supposed to be you're less equipped to confront Programmers, though their number has been reduced from before...

Maybe to offset that change and restore the balance Programmers will need to have their EM resistance further increased.

The situation I was thinking of was for luring sentries off their posts, so that my stealth builds could exit more easily. Right now I have to stand in the open and take a hit in order to get the sentry's attention, and then kite it to move it off the exit. However, shouting could be useful when you are in a tactically advantageous position and wish to fight.

I see. There are already 3-4 ways I can think of luring Sentries from their positions without taking direct fire. Not all effective in all situations, but I believe a universal solution would make things a little more boring.

I would agree there. I did have a ridiculous inventory, reaching a max of 50 at one point. Wouldn't adding that mode be simply a matter of adding the letter 'r' to sort by inventory? Right now 'r' stops running right? But escape serves the same purpose.

'r' is also used as the actual run key (not just stopping) for players using vi-keys, so it can't be reused.

Yep. I'd appreciate if someone else wants to take over management if jimmijamjams doesn't have time to do it anymore. I can provide the BBCode/content for the current format to save time--it's just a matter of coming up with a seed name and taking a couple screenshots.

I could perhaps try doing it. Maybe we can all take turns managing it

Be my guest! One less thing I'd have to do

[Kyzrati]

Latest stats, of course with a new selection of specific data:



(Anything else you're interested in seeing? Other ideas/coming up: Average percent of core damage taken on floors before death, Average system corruption at death, Average hacks per unique machine, and, maybe, Total number of turns spent in each map type.)