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[Happylisk]

I'm very glad you found Drones to be an effective addition to the repertoire.  They're literally my favorite find.

Have you used utility/weapon shieldings?  The thing about armor is you can't stack too much at once.  You'll get hot.  You can't stack too many force fields either.  You'll run out of energy.  In my last game, I found a huge stash of weapon and utility shielding in Research.  I slapped like 3 utility shieldings on at once.  They really increased the lifespan of my items. Mmade a huge, noticeable difference.  The great thing about shielding is that it doesn't cost energy or create heat.  You don't need propulsion shielding because your treads are so tough, and you don't need power shielding cause I found power sources to be bountiful.   

I think the ideal defense set up is some decent armor, a forcefield with a battery/energy well, and utility shielding to increase the lifespan of everything.  And big f'ing launchers to nuke enemy clusters before they can get off more than 2 volleys. 

[Agroesch]

Do the stairs on Access actually exist? I've had two games where I wandered around for a good half an hour before running out of juice. This is driving me mad.

[Kyzrati]

Those min/max slot stats are very cool. I'm not sure they tell us that much, but I don't care, they're very cool!

I think there is some interesting information in there. I'll analyze the complete graph at the end (but everything will come with caveats).

Also, what exactly is the kill streak stat?

Chaining together kills of combat robots within a certain amount of time from the previous kill.

I think part rejection should stop actions for a time and be made slightly more obvious (like the collision warning).

I already added this in Alpha 3. It's on a 500ms timer (the same as the collision/trap warning), and won't let you move during that period. Increasing the timer length (1s?) would be a possibility because it's not as common, and unlike collisions/traps, you won't see a visible change on the map (only the log message and part drop sound) so you may be less likely to stop.

Start of -3. I've salvaged the situation to a degree. Looking dandy now. Also, the entrance is enclosed inside a secret passage. How bizarre.

Haha, that's hilarious. I didn't know that one was possible, but it makes sense based on the code; I should fix that.

Do you always carry extra treads? I didn't see any in your inventory in those shots, though they may have been beyond the end of the visible list. I would never want to be without them since they provide you with a lot of armor.

Also, yesterday I noticed something about your play style from the achievement values I've been watching, and discovered why you're getting beset upon by increasingly deadly swarms of robots: the central AI is considering you far too efficient and therefore a much bigger threat than all the other Cogminds (by far). No one comes close to your efficiency in replacing damaged parts, and the enemy doesn't feel that it can do enough to stop you.

So basically the AI is working as intended, and has identified you as a ruthlessly efficient opponent that needs to be dealt with via strong response. That efficiency works in your favor in non-combat runs, but it's working against you in combat runs, because you're always in the enemy's face with a pristine build that's endlessly cycling parts. By comparison it thinks it's doing okay against Happylisk and Agroesch and thus they're reaching Access against less resistance.

Do the stairs on Access actually exist? I've had two games where I wandered around for a good half an hour before running out of juice. This is driving me mad.

The answer to that has been spoilered a few times on the forum before. (zxc's stealth guide tells you how to escape if you'd like to see.) Right now there aren't enough clues on how to escape--only one indirect clue if you've spent some time in Storage before. There will be more info to help with that added later; before then you could consider just reading a spoiler.

Also consider revealing the exit location via hacking or terrain scanners.

[Reiver]

Wait, so playing the game well makes the game shoot you harder?

I'd thought it focused on killing you proportionate to how much you were slaughtering things/causing havock; not by how well you were actually doing.

This feels a little odd, given half the fun of most roguelikes is 'beating the curve' and then trying very hard to stay ahead. Here, that will apparently get you killed?

[Kyzrati]

Wait, so playing the game well makes the game shoot you harder?

I'd thought it focused on killing you proportionate to how much you were slaughtering things/causing havock; not by how well you were actually doing.

Not exactly. (I wasn't even going to mention all of this because it was meant as a secret adaptive nerf for the enemy, but it's affecting zxc and he's being really vocal about it so I wanted to point out the reason--it's unique to his situation.)

What I did way back in Alpha 2 was make the AI go easier on threats if they believe that threat is being dealt with, which I feel it perfectly logical. It makes this judgment based on whether or not they are blasting a target to pieces.

The public changelog worded this vaguely:

* MOD: Security level is reduced as you lose allies, and when Complex 0b10 AI believes you are being adequately dealt with and pose less of a threat

It's still possible to beat the curve, it's just difficult and the challenge is greater the better you are, due to your enemy's natural response to a threat. (And as mentioned before there will later be additional tools and methods by which to overcome that difficulty regardless of your play style, so I have to balance for things that don't exist yet.)

In short, I made a change in Alpha 2 that makes the game easier for players who aren't performing as well, not the other way around (earlier it was an even playing field, but I like the new system which continues to reflect the idea of a "living dungeon").

Also, Reiver why aren't you in the Challenge?

[zxc]

I already added this in Alpha 3. It's on a 500ms timer (the same as the collision/trap warning), and won't let you move during that period. Increasing the timer length (1s?) would be a possibility because it's not as common, and unlike collisions/traps, you won't see a visible change on the map (only the log message and part drop sound) so you may be less likely to stop.

Please make the sound louder as well.

Do you always carry extra treads? I didn't see any in your inventory in those shots, though they may have been beyond the end of the visible list. I would never want to be without them since they provide you with a lot of armor.

That run was the first time I started carrying extra treads. But the thing is, my 2x heavy treads got rejected and I moved off the square they were on. So then I got stuck fighting a group at that spot and by the time I was done, those treads were gone (recyclers probably). So I had to wear my backup treads. And I never found enough treads ever again.

Also, yesterday I noticed something about your play style from the achievement values I've been watching, and discovered why you're getting beset upon by increasingly deadly swarms of robots: the central AI is considering you far too efficient and therefore a much bigger threat than all the other Cogminds (by far). No one comes close to your efficiency in replacing damaged parts, and the enemy doesn't feel that it can do enough to stop you.

So basically the AI is working as intended, and has identified you as a ruthlessly efficient opponent that needs to be dealt with via strong response. That efficiency works in your favor in non-combat runs, but it's working against you in combat runs, because you're always in the enemy's face with a pristine build that's endlessly cycling parts. By comparison it thinks it's doing okay against Happylisk and Agroesch and thus they're reaching Access against less resistance.

... what? I did not know there was a mechanism like this. And efficiency in replacing damaged parts? Is that the only measure that the AI goes by? What exactly is efficiency in replacing damaged parts? Does it mean I replace parts before they are destroyed?

(I wasn't even going to mention all of this because it was meant as a secret adaptive nerf for the enemy, but it's affecting zxc and he's being really vocal about it so I wanted to point out the reason--it's unique to his situation.)

What I did way back in Alpha 2 was make the AI go easier on threats if they believe that threat is being dealt with, which I feel it perfectly logical. It makes this judgment based on whether or not they are blasting a target to pieces.

The public changelog worded this vaguely:

* MOD: Security level is reduced as you lose allies, and when Complex 0b10 AI believes you are being adequately dealt with and pose less of a threat

It's still possible to beat the curve, it's just difficult and the challenge is greater the better you are, due to your enemy's natural response to a threat. (And as mentioned before there will later be additional tools and methods by which to overcome that difficulty regardless of your play style, so I have to balance for things that don't exist yet.)

In short, I made a change in Alpha 2 that makes the game easier for players who aren't performing as well, not the other way around (earlier it was an even playing field, but I like the new system which continues to reflect the idea of a "living dungeon").

I noticed this in the changelog, but I wasn't sure what exactly it meant. I have to say this is one of the most bizarre game mechanics I've ever seen. So I need to play... less efficiently (whatever this means) in order to win? Play poorly until about -3 and then toggle on? It makes a kind of sense that the AI treats players differently based on how they are doing, but if it's so punishing against good(?) play that you'd fare better with bad(?) play then it no longer makes sense to me.

Edit: Also, I usually leave damaged parts on until they are destroyed, to make the very most of them before using the new one. I only swap out damaged parts when my inventory is full and I'd otherwise have to leave stuff behind. So what is this efficiency measure you're talking about, specifically?

[Kyzrati]

I already added this in Alpha 3. It's on a 500ms timer (the same as the collision/trap warning), and won't let you move during that period. Increasing the timer length (1s?) would be a possibility because it's not as common, and unlike collisions/traps, you won't see a visible change on the map (only the log message and part drop sound) so you may be less likely to stop.

Please make the sound louder as well.

Right now it's just the standard drop sound, so making it louder doesn't make as much sense as just adding a new alarm sound for that event. That's another important difference between it and the other events--they have their own alarm which makes it doubly obvious that something is up.

So I had to wear my backup treads. And I never found enough treads ever again.

When I'm low I go after robots that are known to use treads.

Does it mean I replace parts before they are destroyed?

Yes.

... what? I did not know there was a mechanism like this.

I noticed this in the changelog, but I wasn't sure what exactly it meant. I have to say this is one of the most bizarre game mechanics I've ever seen. So I need to play... less efficiently (whatever this means) in order to win? Play poorly until about -3 and then toggle on? It makes a kind of sense that the AI treats players differently based on how they are doing, but if it's so punishing against good(?) play that you'd fare better with bad(?) play then it no longer makes sense to me.

You weren't supposed to know about the mechanism, at least not yet. It was added as a nerf for the hostile AI, so you're essentially playing the game at its intended base difficulty. (Later on the plan was to reveal this mechanic via an NPC suggesting you learn this and other methods to "trick" the Complex 0b10 AI.)

It's not punishing good play; it's going easier on those who are getting shot to pieces. We could go back to the way it was pre-Alpha 2, where everyone is treated to the high security levels you're encountering, but that makes less sense in the game world.

You also get a much higher score to reflect the difficulty, hence why you still hold the high score despite having been stopped three floors below Happylisk. (A very significant difference since even without combat, three floors is 1500 points rewarded for evolution alone.)

[zxc]

It's not punishing good play; it's going easier on those who are getting shot to pieces. We could go back to the way it was pre-Alpha 2, where everyone is treated to the high security levels you're encountering, but that makes less sense in the game world.

Yes, but the optimal play may then be to let yourself get shot to pieces to minimise threat and then later on play better.

One thing I've noticed is that in most of my combat runs, the vast majority of core damage I take is on the final floor, where I die.

I am a bit sceptical that the part replacement efficiency is even a stat that reflects good play. Rather it would reflect either access to many substitute items or a higher degree of adaptation to the items gifted by RNG. Is it simply the ratio of parts attached to parts destroyed? Does that efficiency stat get pumped up when you make a lot of swaps with items in your inventory? For instance, in my last run I swapped in a tractor beam for one turn at a time to pick up matter, and hacking items for using terminals. Couldn't you possibly game this stat by equipping a lot of fragile items that get destroyed easily, even if they are functionally useless to you?

When I'm low I go after robots that are known to use treads.

There was a behemoth nearby that I was preparing to take out when the hunters ambushed me in that screenshot. Then after an extended fight I decided it would be better to exit the area and try to leave the level sooner, to not get bogged down fighting in one location like many times before.

Have you used utility/weapon shieldings?  The thing about armor is you can't stack too much at once.  You'll get hot.  You can't stack too many force fields either.  You'll run out of energy. ding to increase the lifespan of everything.  And big f'ing launchers to nuke enemy clusters before they can get off more than 2 volleys.

I definitely make use of utility/weapon shieldings, but the hard part is actually finding them. I found exactly zero of either in my last run. And actually you can stack heaps of armour, assuming you have it. It doesn't generate that much heat. For a combat build it's better to use cooling systems than heat sinks because they are a more slot efficient way of cooling you.

I'm not sure you can stack force fields at all. I'll look into it again, but for now I don't think you can have the effect of more than one. Running out of energy isn't a huge problem though. The idea is to stack kinetic weapons, which don't use much energy, and energy wells and solid power sources, vastly expanding your energy pool and therefore your damage mitigation. The problem I find is that 1. there isn't enough armour and utility shielding. And 2. there aren't enough kinetic weapons (I actually welcome hunters at this stage since they are the most reliable source of good kinetic weapons).

Regarding optimal defense I went over it in the theory-crafting thread, but it surely involves having armour, force fields, damage resistance items, utility shielding (a good one I forgot to mention) and enemy accuracy reduction items. If you had all that, you'd be close to invincible. And you'd cycle through items so slowly that you could do without storage units.

[Kyzrati]

It's not punishing good play; it's going easier on those who are getting shot to pieces. We could go back to the way it was pre-Alpha 2, where everyone is treated to the high security levels you're encountering, but that makes less sense in the game world.

Yes, but the optimal play may then be to let yourself get shot to pieces to minimise threat and then later on play better.

True, psychological warfare. But you have less a chance of scoring well for it.

I am a bit sceptical that the part replacement efficiency is even a stat that reflects good play. Rather it would reflect either access to many substitute items or a higher degree of adaptation to the items gifted by RNG. Is it simply the ratio of parts attached to parts destroyed? Does that efficiency stat get pumped up when you make a lot of swaps with items in your inventory?

No.

Couldn't you possibly game this stat by equipping a lot of fragile items that get destroyed easily, even if they are functionally useless to you?

You can only game it if you know about it, which is why you weren't supposed to know about it . It was an experiment in making the game easier for players who were getting overrun by assault carriers. It worked for everyone except you

[zxc]

It was an experiment in making the game easier for players who were getting overrun by assault carriers. It worked for everyone except you

EHEM

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: I like the idea of an adaptive enemy AI but it poses tricky problems regarding balance. Is everything linked to alert level / influence (is influence just a finely numbered alert level?)? If so, could it then be best to play as I was, but focus on purging threat around late factory and research? I'm going to focus a lot more on purging threat and not on finding exits in my next few runs.

[Happylisk]

So basically the AI is working as intended, and has identified you as a ruthlessly efficient opponent that needs to be dealt with via strong response. That efficiency works in your favor in non-combat runs, but it's working against you in combat runs, because you're always in the enemy's face with a pristine build that's endlessly cycling parts. By comparison it thinks it's doing okay against Happylisk and Agroesch and thus they're reaching Access against less resistance.

Ha!  My Access achievement is just due to megetting repeatedly blown to bits!  Very interesting though.  In my post about that run, I mentioned it was a non ideal build going into research.  Out of desperation on Factory 4 I had lots of stupid utilities repeatedly equipped for coverage (like running 5 heat sinks at once, stupid crap like that) and I was equipping whatever I could find.  I wonder if getting shredded repeatedly substituted for Alert purges

I had one real run last night.  Though a decent score (11kish, died on -3) it was a very disappointing run overall.  Not one launcher after -8.  Not one.  The inability to mulch groups really began to hurt.  It confirms my belief that (for my playstyle at least) launchers are key.  On the bright side, I did fab about 3 Hpc. Storage Units on -5.  Fabbing them is pretty painless, so this will be something I experiment with regularly.  Hacking Drone Bay Schematics (even with 3 hacking utilities) proved elusive.  At least my death on -3 was great - naked but for a lance charging at a line of terminators. 

I did a lot of thinking about weapons last night and I think my weapon load out is all wrong.  I've been running 2 thermals (usually 2 cannons) and a kinetic gun.  Thermal is nice because no one really resists it, but on the flip side no one is vulnerable to it (plus it eats energy that could be going to a forcefield).  I think I'm going to emphasize kinetics going forward (since that's effective against grunts and programmers) and keep EMP weapons (ideally AOE) in the inventory for hunters. 

I woke up an hour early and got some play in before work.  So far, the switch to a kinetic emphasis has let me kill grunts and programmer's way faster.  Although I have to a) watch my matter more now, and b) switch for hunters, the latter is not too annoying and the former is easily dealt with matter filters and one matter storage thingy in the inventory.

I left my current run at -5.  It's got tons of armor, a forcefield, and a nice battery.  Embarrassingly, I've never had all 3 at once.  Man, what a difference all three makes.  I didn't lose a single part on -6.  Now I just have to worry about looking too shiny lest Main.C gets a bug up his ass 

Sadly, as I learn the game better degenerate play has emerged a bit.  I'm sure it'll be different once I had more power sources, but right now I can't run my forcefield forever.  What I do is carefully watch my power level during battles and turn off the field once it gets too low. However, I'm also turning off my treads at the start of every single battle to maximize how long my field is running for.  Every single bit of damage absorbed by the field is damage lost to the aether as zxc said.  It's tedious but effective. 

[zxc]

I left my current run at -5.  It's got tons of armor, a forcefield, and a nice battery.  Embarrassingly, I've never had all 3 at once.  Man, what a difference all three makes.  I didn't lose a single part on -6.

This is what I meant in the theory-crafting thread. All you need now is some resistance items to further reduce the damage taken from kinetic/EM etc.

Sadly, as I learn the game better degenerate play has emerged a bit.  I'm sure it'll be different once I had more power sources, but right now I can't run my forcefield forever.  What I do is carefully watch my power level during battles and turn off the field once it gets too low. However, I'm also turning off my treads at the start of every single battle to maximize how long my field is running for.  Every single bit of damage absorbed by the field is damage lost to the aether as zxc said.  It's tedious but effective.

This is why I like kinetic weapons. They don't use much energy, so you can keep your force fields on even when you're low on energy. However, there is an advantage to thermal weapons: they contribute to the target's heat, which is considerably effective vs programmers because they still tend to melt themselves in the current version. Some other enemies also overheat but I can't remember which.

Turning off treads is not worth it if you are using kinetic weapons which have recoil. Don't forget that having active treads reduces recoil on each weapon by 10, which it a ton.

Honestly the worst enemies in Research I think are grunt/melee packs, which carriers often deploy as well. My current run is up to -6 I think, and it's doing well but I do lack force fields and my armour is running a bit low, and no drones yet.

[Happylisk]

Ack great point zxc.  I swear, playing this game is like juggling 30 variables.  Recoil messes with accuracy, right? 

Also, I had another epiphany re: armor.  There lots of stuff that gives resistance to thermal and emp and all that, but there's also armor that gives resistance to explosives.  I never really got the point of that, since I've yet to encounter in the main branches an enemy that uses launchers against you.  The answer is slap on the forehead obvious: it's to make the occasional point blank launcher shot a legitimate option. 

[zxc]

Ack great point zxc.  I swear, playing this game is like juggling 30 variables.  Recoil messes with accuracy, right? 

Also, I had another epiphany re: armor.  There lots of stuff that gives resistance to thermal and emp and all that, but there's also armor that gives resistance to explosives.  I never really got the point of that, since I've yet to encounter in the main branches an enemy that uses launchers against you.  The answer is slap on the forehead obvious: it's to make the occasional point blank launcher shot a legitimate option.

I had a similar epiphany recently. However, it's still a tiny bit of a marginal benefit I think. Not sure. Maybe it's worth carrying in inventory and swapping in before using the launcher, but the enemies can creep closer in that time.

Also it would help vs explosive traps.

Yes, 10 recoil on a weapon reduces accuracy of other weapons in the volley by 10. I think. So it's a rather large effect, and gets larger the more weapons in the volley.

[Agroesch]

The answer to that has been spoilered a few times on the forum before. (zxc's stealth guide tells you how to escape if you'd like to see.) Right now there aren't enough clues on how to escape--only one indirect clue if you've spent some time in Storage before. There will be more info to help with that added later; before then you could consider just reading a spoiler.

Also consider revealing the exit location via hacking or terrain scanners.

I've been intentionally avoiding spoilers. I'm determined to figure it out myself.

I should try harder to keep sensors up. With all my runs they usually get blown off immediately so I don't even bother equipping them. I've been running around blind stacking armor and anything else with coverage. Hacking after materials is usually impossible. My games are very messy.

[zxc]

My games are very messy.

Combat runs are super messy. My stealth runs by comparison are pristine clean, because by avoiding enemies you don't get so many parts destroyed, and it's more of a continually improving setup unless you screw up (which I do at times).

I'm currently about to enter -4 and I have about five deep network scanners which I've been swapping in before purging threat and locating exits. It's actually working quite well. The question is whether I can avoid system corruption enough the next few floors to continue hacking effectively.

I can't believe how often my storage units get critted.

[Goncyn]

What are drones good for? I saw a couple drone bays in my current game, but I wasn't sure what benefits they offered, so I left them so I could keep what I was already carrying.

[Shobalk]

What are drones good for? I saw a couple drone bays in my current game, but I wasn't sure what benefits they offered, so I left them so I could keep what I was already carrying.

Scouting.  After you equip them, they spawn 2 drones (1 per turn that they're on).  Then you can send them off to look for exits until they die.  You can get a lot of map data from those little guys.

I'm actually wondering if you can reload them after they're spent.

[zxc]

Okay, I'm at -4 about to enter -3. I'm near a fabricator so I'm making some HCP storage units before I go. Ending my session for now because it's 4:30am and I don't want to screw this up by being tired or impatient. I think there's a chance this run could be the one. Fairly poor defenses, no armour, and a force field I can't really make use of so it's staying in inventory until I can. However, I've been making major use of hacking this run, and I think it's working. For one, I can make some HCP storage units. Also, I've been purging threat a lot. I haven't had a terminal for a while though, so I imagine there will be some when I enter -3. Does threat get lowered when you enter a new floor at all?

I have some new ideas on combat runs I'll try to explain later. What I can say for now is that 1 tile wide corridors are godlike.

Hope I don't fluff this game. Research has not failed to kill me, though. Wish me luck.

Screenshot:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, my inventory really is 41 items.

Not sure on evolution upgrades as well. Weapons seem to be in a good spot so I guess 2 utility, 1 utility 1 power, or maybe even 1 propulsion for makeshift tread armour. However, weapons are pretty much better than treads as armour because they have more coverage (not sure on integrity).

[Happylisk]

What are drones good for? I saw a couple drone bays in my current game, but I wasn't sure what benefits they offered, so I left them so I could keep what I was already carrying.

Scouting.  After you equip them, they spawn 2 drones (1 per turn that they're on).  Then you can send them off to look for exits until they die.  You can get a lot of map data from those little guys.

I'm actually wondering if you can reload them after they're spent.

Drones are the best.  If you hold shift and right click on them, you can give them commands.  The best is explore.  Don't send two drones out at once, or they'll follow the same exploration path.  Stagger their deployment.  You share vision with them and can follow them around with alt-movement.  So you hit " . " to make a turn pass, and scroll to see what they see.  Don't deploy them in hallways where enemies might be patrolling, but rather go into a quiet room where you can pass a few turns without worry.  Besides hunting for the exit, they might show you where enemies are and can show you caches worth taking.  Once they find the exit, you can command them to follow and "return," which I believe will load them back into the bay (assuming they survive that long).  They're really great.

zxc: good luck duder.  I hope this is the one!

e: looking at your screenshot makes me wonder if I'm overvaluing cannons in my weapon loadouts. 

[zxc]

zxc: good luck duder.  I hope this is the one!

e: looking at your screenshot makes me wonder if I'm overvaluing cannons in my weapon loadouts.

Thanks! I like cannons too, and I have several in my inventory. I think it's more that enemies don't use them so when I'm cycling through a lot of parts because lack of defenses I start relying on what they use.

[Happylisk]

Jesus, this game.  I had a cogmind on -2 that I really thought was going to make it.  I got lucky on -3 and found the exit quick.  I entered -2 with everything just perfect.  Armor, great guns, advanced force field with 3 spares, 32 inventory slots, and lots of hackware for terminals.

In a room 3 programmers burst in from the south, 2 from the north, and 2 terminators from the east.  Basically all at once.  There was nothing I could do against that.  After half my shit was blown off I tried the old drop everything but for 4 items and run for it hail mary, but some swarmers had other plans. 

You just can't treat Research like factory.  Guessing where the exit is not an option.  That's what I learned from this run.  Didn't even see a terminal in -2 before getting clobbered so all my saved up hackware was of no use.  I think the takeaway is that you really want to enter research with a drone bay, and should save any drone bays you find in factory for later use.  Factory is easy enough that drone bays aren't needed.  Save it for Research. 

Also, sentries are not even remotely a problem in factory.  They get appreciably harder in Research with all their armor.  EMP recommended on those jerks.  Is thermal more effective against heavily armored targets? 

E: I realize one thing I was missing.  A high tier launcher.  It's possible that something capable of one or 2 shotting clusters of end game enemies could have saved me.  I'm not sure what else a combat cogmind is supposed to do when 3 clusters of enemies are around you.  Perhaps the answer is just don't get surrounded.  Easier said than done. 

[Kyzrati]

Hacking Drone Bay Schematics (even with 3 hacking utilities) proved elusive.

Was it? I still want to revisit that system and make sure schematics and fabrication are feasible when desired, but it's still too early to do that beyond the changes already made.

However, I'm also turning off my treads at the start of every single battle to maximize how long my field is running for.  Every single bit of damage absorbed by the field is damage lost to the aether as zxc said.  It's tedious but effective.

Why are you turning off your treads? They don't have an energy upkeep--is there some other reasoning I'm not aware of?

I never really got the point of that, since I've yet to encounter in the main branches an enemy that uses launchers against you.  The answer is slap on the forehead obvious: it's to make the occasional point blank launcher shot a legitimate option. 

Launchers are pretty deadly, though just like you use them mostly for crowd control, so do they

But that's a pretty creative use for Reactive Armors! I originally left them out of the game because it's true you won't often face launcher-equipped hostiles; that type of armor was only added in Alpha 3, because as you've shown they have other uses as well.

The question is whether I can avoid system corruption enough the next few floors to continue hacking effectively.

I can't believe how often my storage units get critted.

Preview for Next Version: System corruption's effect on hacking significantly reduced. Also, while in my own experience storage units are rarely critted since the chances are quite low, I'm thinking it probably makes sense to make them immune to critical hits, just because of how annoying that is. Thoughts?

Does threat get lowered when you enter a new floor at all?

Yep.

Yeah, my inventory really is 41 items.

You know, I was thinking yesterday there has to be a point at which by taking up so many utility slots with storage you're really driving down your effectiveness overall.(Also, of course the chances of your storage getting critted goes way up when you carry a bunch of them. I generally only carry one; maybe two if I've got no other special utility needs at the moment, and I rarely have problems with crits.)

Perhaps the answer is just don't get surrounded.  Easier said than done. 

Getting surrounded is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to you, in my opinion. I try to route myself to make it impossible to be surrounded, at least based on my knowledge of the map. Depending on your loadout, engaging in a bit of terraforming is another useful option

[Goncyn]

Just wrapped up my second game. Made it to -4 using a combat-heavy approach, and it was going fairly well, but after reading this forum some more mid-run, I'm pretty sure I made a big strategic error in not picking up any storage units or keeping as many spare parts as I could. Shortly after entering -4, I was attacked by two pairs of assassins in quick succession, followed by a pair of programmers. I had lost my force field and armor to the hunters, so I had to run from the programmers, and then two more hunters showed up, so I quickly lost the rest of my parts and then my core. Still a pretty encouraging run for having barely played the game before. Kind of want to try stealth, too, but I just like shooting things a lot.

Code: [Select]

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: Goncyn

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

 Performance
-------------
Evolutions (6)             3000
Robots Destroyed (119)     595
Value Destroyed (4905)     4905
Prototype IDs (6)          120
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (0)                  0
              TOTAL SCORE: 8620

 Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             0/1150
Matter                     290/300
Energy                     109/120
System Corruption          8%
Temperature                Cool (0)
Location                   -4/Factory

 Parts
-------
Power (3)
  Micro Fission Core
Propulsion (2)
  Anti-Grav System
Utility (9)
Weapon (5)
  High-powered Shock Rifle

 Inventory
-----------
Empty

 Peak State
------------
Power
  Micro Fission Core
  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion
  Medium Treads
  Compact Heavy Treads
Utility
  Improved Heat Sink
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Recoil Nullifier
  Improved Core Analyzer
  Improved Light Armor Plating
  Improved Integration Mediator
  Experimental Reclamation Unit
  Advanced Force Field
Weapon
  Force Lance
  KE Penetrator
  KE Penetrator
  Improved Arc Projector
  Railgun
[Rating: 104]

 Favorites
-----------
Power                      Light Angular Momentum Engine
  Engine                   Light Angular Momentum Engine
  Power Core               Light Nuclear Core
  Reactor                  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion                 Medium Treads
  Treads                   Medium Treads
  Wheel                    Compact Wheel
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Hover Unit               Anti-Grav System
  Flight Unit              Flight Unit
Utility                    Improved Heat Sink
  Device                   Improved Heat Sink
  Storage                  Medium Storage Unit
  Processor                Improved Targeting Computer
  Protection               Improved Light Armor Plating
Weapon                     Flak Gun
  Energy Gun               Shock Rifle
  Energy Cannon            Proton Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Flak Gun
  Ballistic Cannon         Assault Cannon
  Launcher                 Grenade Launcher
  Special Weapon           Mining Laser
  Impact Weapon            Mace

 Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          15
  Worker                   7
  Builder                  2
  Tunneler                 1
  Hauler                   1
  Recycler                 11
  Mechanic                 1
  Operator                 1
  Watcher                  6
  Swarmer                  16
  Grunt                    25
  Brawler                  3
  Duelist                  1
  Sentry                   22
  Hunter                   8
  Programmer               14
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           6
  Combat Bots Only         6
Matter Collected           4111
  Salvage Created          6467
Parts Attached             210
  Power                    27
  Propulsion               37
  Utility                  63
  Weapon                   83
Parts Lost                 110
  Power                    12
  Propulsion               14
  Utility                  31
  Weapon                   53
Average Slot Usage (%)     90
  Naked Turns              2
Spaces Moved               3991
  Fastest Speed (%)        333
  Slowest Speed (%)        20
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           0
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             77
  Greatest Overweight (x)  15
  Average Overweight (x)   0
Largest Inventory          8
  Most Items Carried       4
  Average Items Carried    3
Core Damage Taken          2013
Volleys Fired              365
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  359
Shots Fired                1210
  Gun                      1134
  Cannon                   72
  Launcher                 3
  Special                  1
  Kinetic                  592
  Thermal                  449
  Explosive                0
  Electromagnetic          169
Shots Hit Robots           780
  Core Hits                349
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              21
  Impact                   21
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           13849
  Projectiles              13055
  Explosions               530
  Melee                    264
  Ramming                  0
Highest Temperature        343
  Average Temperature      77
  Shutdowns                1
  Energy Bleed             2
  Interference             3
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         8
  Message Errors           20
  Parts Rejected           1
  Data loss (map)          19
  Data loss (database)     8
  Misfires                 3
  Misdirections            6
  Targeting Errors         25
  Weapon Failures          2
Haulers Intercepted        1
Robots Corrupted           0
Robots Melted              7
Tactical Retreats          11
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        15
  Terminals                12
  Fabricators              1
  Repair Stations          2
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
Machines Hacked            15
  Terminals                12
  Fabricators              1
  Repair Stations          2
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
Total Hacks                31
  Successful               14
  Failed                   16
  Catastrophic             1
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   5
  Terminals                26
  Fabricators              2
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
Terminal Hacks             10
  Record                   5
  Part Schematic           1
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        0
  Open Door                1
  Level Access Points      0
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Alert Level              0
  Unreport Threat          1
  Locate Traps             1
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         0
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         1
Hacking Detections         10
  Full Trace Events        4
  Feedback Events          1
  Feedback Corruption      1
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   1
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             1
  Part Repair Time         30
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               9
  Largest Group            0
  Highest-Rated Group      0
  Highest-Rated Ally       0
Total Orders               0
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     0
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  0
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             441
  Average Influence        138
Maximum Alert Level        2
  Low Security (%)         63
  Level 1                  35
  Level 2                  1
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          21
  Investigation            4
  Extermination            11
  Reinforcement            4
  Assault                  2
Exploration Rate (%)       22
  Regions Visited          10
Turns Passed               8133
  Depth 11                 69
  Depth 10                 104
  Depth 9                  637
  Depth 8                  520
  Depth 7                  2391
  Depth 6                  3043
  Depth 5                  512
  Depth 4                  857
  Scrapyard                69
  Materials                1000
  Factory                  5351
  Mines                    261
  Storage                  1452

 Prototype IDs
---------------
Advanced Beam Rifle
Improved Spread Laser
Advanced Plasma Rifle
Precision Assault Rifle
Anti-matter Cannon
Experimental Reclamation Unit

 Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

 Game
------
Seed: 1442162506
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 223 min
Sessions: 14
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 2
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 66x50


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[Happylisk]

Getting surrounded is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to you, in my opinion. I try to route myself to make it impossible to be surrounded, at least based on my knowledge of the map. Depending on your loadout, engaging in a bit of terraforming is another useful option

I did terraforming in Access with a launcher (which proved to be a terrible idea in terms of matter loss).  Thank you for the tip.  At this point I have a generally decent idea where I am on the map and where the location of the stairs is.  I'm going to try stashing a plasma cutter next run to burrow through rooms in research to try to avoid situations where I have to trudge down those big ass open hallways.

As for the drone bay stuff, I don't think I had enough deep network scanners, which I'm sure are more important for indirect hacks than the other hackware I had.  I don't think it's a problem if you need to work to hack higher tier schematics.  You should have to work to have reliable access to things like drone bays and improved force fields.