Alpha Challenge 2015 (September 8-22)

boomblip · September 12, 2015, 02:35:30 PM

Well that was my best score yet.

I had plenty of parts but the battles became too intense and I couldn't replace fast enough to get any shots off. Basically been focusing on energy weapons with one or two AOE explosive weapons for crowd control, but I have pretty consistently found myself in the chute traps getting it all knocked off due to lack of speed. Found myself with 15%+ corruption more than once which was absolutely ridiculous, as I ran around the level blowing up generators and random robots unintentionally.

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: BoomBlip

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (7) 3500
Robots Destroyed (211) 1055
Value Destroyed (9310) 9310
Prototype IDs (17) 340
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (0) 0
TOTAL SCORE: 14205

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/1300
Matter 300/300
Energy 50/50
System Corruption 20%
Temperature Cool (0)
Location -3/Research

Parts
-------
Power (3)
Propulsion (2)
Utility (12)
Weapon (4)

Inventory
-----------
Experimental Terrain Scan Processor
Improved Medium Treads
Compact Heavy Treads
Micro Fission Core

Peak State
------------
Power
Micro Fission Core
Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion
Improved Anti-Grav System
Improved Anti-Grav System
Utility
Energy Well
High-capacity Storage Unit
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Reclamation Unit
Improved Launcher Guidance Computer
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Powered Armor
Powered Armor
Powered Armor
Powered Armor
Advanced Heat Sink
Weapon
Variable Charge Gun
Gamma Rifle
Gamma Rifle
Gamma Rifle
[Rating: 119]

Favorites
-----------
Power Micro Fission Core
Engine Light Angular Momentum Engine
Power Core Micro Fission Core
Reactor Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion Improved Treads
Treads Improved Treads
Leg Myomer Leg
Hover Unit Gravmag Array
Utility Large Storage Unit
Device Improved Heat Sink
Storage Large Storage Unit
Processor Improved Targeting Computer
Hackware Deep Network Scanner
Protection Improved Light Armor Plating
Weapon High-powered Shock Rifle
Energy Gun High-powered Shock Rifle
Energy Cannon Ion Cannon
Ballistic Gun Railgun
Ballistic Cannon Advanced Assault Cannon
Launcher Mini Smartbomb Launcher
Special Weapon Advanced Remote Datajack
Slashing Weapon Katana

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 15
Worker 14
Builder 10
Tunneler 6
Hauler 7
Recycler 18
Mechanic 1
Operator 1
Watcher 4
Swarmer 37
Grunt 51
Brawler 2
Duelist 2
Sentry 12
Hunter 17
Programmer 29
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 11
Combat Bots Only 9
Matter Collected 5276
Salvage Created 9961
Parts Attached 329
Power 53
Propulsion 36
Utility 118
Weapon 122
Parts Lost 178
Power 27
Propulsion 17
Utility 65
Weapon 69
Average Slot Usage (%) 87
Naked Turns 14
Spaces Moved 5345
Fastest Speed (%) 222
Slowest Speed (%) 6
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 11
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 131
Greatest Overweight (x) 31
Average Overweight (x) 2
Largest Inventory 34
Most Items Carried 24
Average Items Carried 13
Core Damage Taken 3289
Volleys Fired 489
Largest 4
Hottest 339
Shots Fired 1275
Gun 830
Cannon 393
Launcher 48
Special 4
Kinetic 397
Thermal 563
Explosive 48
Electromagnetic 263
Shots Hit Robots 795
Core Hits 465
Overload Shots 10
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 2
Impact 0
Slashing 2
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 29365
Projectiles 17993
Explosions 11269
Melee 57
Ramming 46
Highest Temperature 565
Average Temperature 107
Shutdowns 10
Energy Bleed 3
Interference 10
Matter Decay 5
Short Circuit 2
Damage (minor) 1
Damage (major) 7
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 26
Message Errors 67
Parts Rejected 27
Data loss (map) 76
Data loss (database) 60
Misfires 16
Misdirections 31
Targeting Errors 93
Weapon Failures 17
Haulers Intercepted 7
Robots Corrupted 9
Robots Melted 9
Tactical Retreats 22
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 2
Retrieved Matter 6
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 12
Terminals 12
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Machines Hacked 12
Terminals 12
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Total Hacks 33
Successful 1
Failed 32
Catastrophic 14
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 33
Terminals 33
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Terminal Hacks 1
Record 0
Part Schematic 0
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 0
Open Door 0
Level Access Points 0
Branch Access Points 0
Emergency Access Points 0
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Alert Level 0
Unreport Threat 0
Locate Traps 0
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 1
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 0
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 12
Full Trace Events 4
Feedback Events 1
Feedback Corruption 1
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 0
Part Repair Time 0
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 1
Robots Hacked 1
Non-combat 0
Combat 1
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 1
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 1
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 9
Largest Group 1
Highest-Rated Group 81
Highest-Rated Ally 81
Total Orders 0
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 2
Total Damage 46
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 1
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 638
Average Influence 207
Maximum Alert Level 2
Low Security (%) 66
Level 1 11
Level 2 21
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 35
Investigation 7
Extermination 17
Reinforcement 10
Assault 1
Exploration Rate (%) 24
Regions Visited 9
Turns Passed 12979
Depth 11 95
Depth 10 454
Depth 9 699
Depth 8 550
Depth 7 917
Depth 6 2568
Depth 5 3656
Depth 4 2850
Depth 3 1190
Scrapyard 95
Materials 1703
Factory 9991
Research 1190

Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Medium Laser
Precision Beam Rifle
Cooled Plasma Rifle
Heavy Gatling Laser
Heavy Wave Gun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Cooled Phase Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Helical Railgun
Mini Smartbomb Launcher
Experimental Heat Sink
Improved Matter Compressor
Experimental Terrain Scan Processor
Quantum Shroud
Precision Energy Filter

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1442035249
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 244 min
Sessions: 3
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 52
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Font: 18/Cogmind
Map View: 76x50

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0316613301418

[close]

Happylisk · September 12, 2015, 05:50:43 PM

Wow bb, great run. Look at all those powered armors.

I recently had a promising run go straight to hell in -5. I was in the middle of a big hallway and 2 hunters shot both my engines off. I didn't have spares and things quickly death spiraled. I've gotten the hang of dealing with programmers. Hunters are the things now giving me more problems. I think having more armor than what I'm currently wearing is going to be necessary for dealing with them.

The run thereafter ended up in waste. Standing and fighting there is not a good idea.

boomblip · September 12, 2015, 08:25:19 PM

Yep the power armor saved my butt a few times but EM damage wrecked me, looking at that score sheet: "Highest Corruption 26" Seriously nasty, seemed like every other turn I was moving in the wrong direction and/or misfiring.

zxc · September 13, 2015, 05:15:08 AM

Won a third game - a rather messy stealth run. That probably won't be breaking any records. Took some screenshots for my guide though.

I also had a combat run which collapsed, and I was almost able to salvage it by switching to stealth with the single flight unit I had in my inventory. Reached -2 and died, but the potential was there.

Research remains the biggest killer for me, especially with combat runs.

zxc · September 14, 2015, 01:27:04 AM

Combat win remains elusive...

It doesn't seem like you can control situations well enough by combat. I just passed 18k score with a run that ended in Factory, and the attrition is just insane. There just aren't enough armour and storage units. I tried fabricating HCP storage units whenever I could, but it wasn't enough. Saboteurs are disgusting, and the waves of enemies are just endless.

This time I tried to go with more utilities and fewer weapons, to maximise the ability to mitigate damage by having slots for force fields, batteries, lots of armour, matter-energy converters, and lots of storage. But that doesn't work if you can't find those items faster than you lose them.

It feels like a meatgrinder. Maybe I will get a combat win when the stars align after several dozen runs like this. However, these runs are a lot more exhausting than stealth runs. Constantly swapping items, managing volleys, seeking out matter in the most turn efficient manner possible, and on top of that, trying to find the exit ASAP.

I think the player could do with a general accuracy buff and either more gradual influence increases, significant hack success rate increases for scan/fab machines, or item integrity boosts across the board. I understand that combat is meant to be the harder route, but as it stands, it is both harder and more random due to item attrition and the inability to reposition/escape well with overburdened treads.

Edit: And don't even get me started on recyclers. I think dropped items should have X turns immunity to the greedy bastards, maybe 50 for starters.

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: zzxc

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (6) 3000
Robots Destroyed (323) 1615
Value Destroyed (13143) 13143
Prototype IDs (21) 420
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (0) 0
TOTAL SCORE: 18178

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/1150
Matter 121/300
Energy 48/50
System Corruption 10%
Temperature Cool (0)
Location -4/Factory

Parts
-------
Power (3)
Propulsion (2)
Utility (10)
Weapon (4)

Inventory
-----------
Improved Targeting Computer
Matter Compressor
Advanced Heat Sink

Peak State
------------
Power
Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Light Quantum Reactor
Micro Fission Core
Propulsion
Improved Treads
Improved Treads
Utility
Improved Heat Sink
Improved Medium Armor Plating
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Power Amplifier
Medium Storage Unit
Improved Fusion Compressor
Medium Storage Unit
Improved Force Field
Weapon
Enhanced Gauss Cannon
KE Penetrator
Compact Ion Cannon
Improved KE Penetrator
[Rating: 92]

Favorites
-----------
Power Improved Deuterium Engine
Engine Improved Deuterium Engine
Power Core Micro Fission Core
Reactor Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion Light Treads
Treads Light Treads
Leg Aluminum Leg
Flight Unit Flight Unit
Utility High-capacity Storage Unit
Device Advanced Heat Sink
Storage High-capacity Storage Unit
Processor Improved Target Analyzer
Protection Improved Heavy Armor Plating
Weapon Mini Assault Cannon
Energy Gun Plasma Rifle
Energy Cannon Compact Ion Cannon
Ballistic Gun KE Penetrator
Ballistic Cannon Mini Assault Cannon
Launcher Improved Grenade Launcher

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 18
Worker 30
Builder 33
Tunneler 4
Hauler 12
Recycler 30
Mechanic 2
Operator 1
Watcher 7
Swarmer 28
Saboteur 1
Grunt 96
Brawler 7
Duelist 8
Protector 2
Sentry 13
Hunter 23
Programmer 24
Behemoth 2
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 15
Combat Bots Only 12
Matter Collected 10588
Salvage Created 13844
Parts Attached 387
Power 40
Propulsion 46
Utility 160
Weapon 141
Parts Lost 163
Power 20
Propulsion 11
Utility 86
Weapon 46
Average Slot Usage (%) 92
Naked Turns 50
Spaces Moved 4445
Fastest Speed (%) 200
Slowest Speed (%) 7
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 31
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 115
Greatest Overweight (x) 27
Average Overweight (x) 2
Largest Inventory 34
Most Items Carried 32
Average Items Carried 21
Core Damage Taken 3044
Volleys Fired 750
Largest 4
Hottest 285
Shots Fired 1824
Gun 905
Cannon 869
Launcher 50
Special 0
Kinetic 1111
Thermal 525
Explosive 50
Electromagnetic 138
Shots Hit Robots 1076
Core Hits 634
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 0
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 36650
Projectiles 26663
Explosions 9940
Melee 0
Ramming 47
Highest Temperature 375
Average Temperature 71
Shutdowns 0
Energy Bleed 3
Interference 3
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 15
Message Errors 41
Parts Rejected 15
Data loss (map) 55
Data loss (database) 24
Misfires 4
Misdirections 12
Targeting Errors 48
Weapon Failures 11
Haulers Intercepted 12
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 7
Tactical Retreats 29
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 25
Terminals 16
Fabricators 7
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 2
Machines Hacked 25
Terminals 16
Fabricators 7
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 2
Total Hacks 94
Successful 42
Failed 52
Catastrophic 14
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 15
Terminals 59
Fabricators 29
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 6
Terminal Hacks 23
Record 8
Part Schematic 1
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 0
Open Door 0
Level Access Points 0
Branch Access Points 2
Emergency Access Points 0
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Alert Level 2
Unreport Threat 1
Locate Traps 1
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 1
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 1
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 2
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 4
Hacking Detections 29
Full Trace Events 14
Feedback Events 2
Feedback Corruption 2
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 4
Parts Built 4
Total Part Build Rating 4
Part Fabrication Matter 80
Part Fabrication Time 240
Parts Repaired 0
Part Repair Time 0
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 3
Part Schematics Acquired 3
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 7
Largest Group 0
Highest-Rated Group 0
Highest-Rated Ally 0
Total Orders 0
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 2232
Average Influence 605
Maximum Alert Level 4
Low Security (%) 21
Level 1 23
Level 2 30
Level 3 16
Level 4 8
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 57
Investigation 14
Extermination 16
Reinforcement 14
Assault 13
Exploration Rate (%) 23
Regions Visited 8
Turns Passed 12423
Depth 11 81
Depth 10 1114
Depth 9 716
Depth 8 893
Depth 7 2279
Depth 6 3529
Depth 5 2422
Depth 4 1389
Scrapyard 81
Materials 2723
Factory 9619

Prototype IDs
---------------
Enhanced Nuclear Core
Light Neutrino Core
Improved Medium Laser
Advanced Beam Rifle
Heavy Gatling Laser
Heavy Wave Gun
Precision Shock Rifle
Advanced Beam Cannon
Compact Ion Cannon
Precision Assault Rifle
Improved KE Penetrator
Mini Assault Cannon
Rocket Array
Precision Rocket Launcher
Scatter Rocket Array
Tiamat Missile Launcher
Guided EMP Blaster
Advanced Power Amplifier
Experimental Thermal Converter
Precision Energy Filter
Improved Fusion Compressor

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1442149743
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 187 min
Sessions: 6
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 20
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 0
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50

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[close]

Kyzrati · September 14, 2015, 05:08:08 AM

Quote from: zxc on September 14, 2015, 01:27:04 AM
Combat win remains elusive...

I understand that combat is meant to be the harder route, but as it stands, it is both harder and more random due to item attrition and the inability to reposition/escape well with overburdened treads.

The late game will change significantly with the addition of new branches, including ways to make it easier (the first should come in Alpha 4), so it's too early to make other major adjustments there. For 3c I already made Research and Access about 20% easier than when Adraius won his combat run.

I might make some more tweaks when we get back to doing seed runs after the Alpha Challenge. I need to do some more full-length combat runs myself, though as you say they do take a good bit longer.

Quote from: zxc on September 14, 2015, 01:27:04 AM
Edit: And don't even get me started on recyclers. I think dropped items should have X turns immunity to the greedy bastards, maybe 50 for starters.

There are additional ways to deal with them that haven't been added yet, but they won't be outright nerfed like that. I almost never have problems with them as is--scaring them away works fine. Only in the occasional protracted intense battle do they get the upper hand.

Another change coming down the pipe: You'll be able to track them to the nearest Recycling Unit and hack to get back all the parts they collected. (As well as in other ways, to be announced...)

zxc · September 14, 2015, 05:55:52 AM

Quote from: Kyzrati on September 14, 2015, 05:08:08 AM
For 3c I already made Research and Access about 20% easier than when Adraius won his combat run.

However, Adraius has had difficulty replicating that run, which illustrates the randomness of combat runs in general. The number of HCP storage units you find or can create, for instance, is something you have very little control over yet has a lasting impact on the outcome of a combat run. Likewise, the number of armour pieces you find, and timely force fields and so on.

I am fairly consistently reaching -4 to -2, and consistently dying there due to attrition, while trying variations of Adraius' strategy. I'd like to discuss combat run theory-crafting in depth in another thread perhaps, but it seems to me that sooner or later a combat run will end due to attrition almost regardless of what the player does.

Also, my experience with traps so far is that they are certainly a net negative for the player. I haven't yet tried to rewire them, but for a stealth run I would guess that this is more trouble than simply avoiding both the trap and the enemy. For combat runs, all the programmer spawns make system corruption surge high, reducing hacking ability (making alert purge extremely difficult). Making use of rewired traps may also be difficult with overburdened treads and ranged enemies, and in any case they would be one-use, preventing

Happylisk · September 14, 2015, 07:41:41 AM

My last two runs ended in Research -2. While I agree that combat runs are way harder (duh) and RNG'y, I find them to be fair and exhilarating. I can tell I'm getting better cause I'm now able to see my mistakes. I feel like I'm on the cusp of a win. Most recent mistake: Forcefields without batteries is asking for pain.

Another thing: Recyclers in research drop medium storage units. Not ideal but had I remembered that one of my Research runs would have been very different.

I wouldn't mind an ever so slight increase in Hcp storage unit drops. That said, I think we can't really talk balance until we all understand the game better and the branches are in.

Kyzrati · September 14, 2015, 09:50:04 AM

Quote from: zxc on September 14, 2015, 05:55:52 AM
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 14, 2015, 05:08:08 AM
For 3c I already made Research and Access about 20% easier than when Adraius won his combat run.
However, Adraius has had difficulty replicating that run, which illustrates the randomness of combat runs in general.

True, though he's only played a couple games since the Challenge started... The mid- and late-game branches will be for those who would like to stack the odds more in their favor. Hopefully you'll be able to make decisions that adjust the difficult to a somewhat controllable degree, but still leave open the "I'm going to blast my way straight to the end" approach that some players may enjoy.

It looks like you were attracting quite a lot of attention in your combat run, compared to other players at that stage.

Quote from: zxc on September 14, 2015, 05:55:52 AM
Also, my experience with traps so far is that they are certainly a net negative for the player. I haven't yet tried to rewire them

Not rewiring them at all would make them a net negative, yes

Quote from: zxc on September 14, 2015, 05:55:52 AM
For combat runs, all the programmer spawns make system corruption surge high, reducing hacking ability (making alert purge extremely difficult).

Trap rewiring can be done via datajack, though, which is quite easy and unaffected by system corruption. There are some really mean things you can do with traps.

Also, I don't believe anyone's discovered the new way to reset your security level to 0 when it gets out of hand. It's somewhat costly, but under the right circumstances it can be useful... (There will be a tip on that later.)

zxc · September 14, 2015, 10:16:44 AM

Quote from: Kyzrati on September 14, 2015, 09:50:04 AM
Trap rewiring can be done via datajack, though, which is quite easy and unaffected by system corruption. There are some really mean things you can do with traps.

Well that's cool. I will need to play around with it more in a test run.

Quote from: Kyzrati on September 14, 2015, 09:50:04 AM
It looks like you were attracting quite a lot of attention in your combat run, compared to other players at that stage.

Oh yes. Oh yes. But I didn't seek out enemies intentionally. If anything, I try to avoid them, even with a combat build. But that's the combat build randomness that's I'm talking about. I just got heaps of enemies, and it just spiraled out of control despite my best efforts. I even purged threat once or twice.

Happylisk · September 14, 2015, 10:25:38 AM

So close. So close. Got to -1 with a less than ideal build but it was doable. Got into a nasty situation where in a long hallway there were two teams of terminators on either side. Prevailed but lost lots of key utilities and my launchers. Rebuilt, pressed on and

Spoiler

found the exit, got ridiculously excited, realized I found the locked branch to Command, die very soon thereafter.

[close]

So close. Assuming I have enough time to play, I think I'll squeeze out a win. I'm extremely sure that that the trick to research is drone bays and a really powerful launcher. I wouldn't have gotten to Access without my micro nuke launcher.

The post mortem:

Spoiler

Cogmind - Alpha 3c

Name: Happylisk

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9) 4500
Robots Destroyed (288) 1440
Value Destroyed (11014) 11014
Prototype IDs (13) 260
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (0) 0
TOTAL SCORE: 17214

Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/1600
Matter 285/300
Energy 50/50
System Corruption 2%
Temperature Cool (12)
Location -1/Access

Parts
-------
Power (4)
Propulsion (2)
Utility (15)
Weapon (4)

Inventory
-----------
High-density Centrium Heavy Treads
Light Particle Reactor
High-capacity Storage Unit

Peak State
------------
Power
Light Quantum Reactor
Particle Reactor
Light Particle Reactor
Micro Fission Core
Propulsion
High-density Centrium Heavy Treads
Utility
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Advanced Targeting Computer
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Cloaking Device
Advanced Targeting Computer
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Compact Battery
Advanced Core Analyzer
Weapon
Compact HERF Cannon
Railgun
Quantum Rifle
Enhanced Quantum Rifle
[Rating: 148]

Favorites
-----------
Power Micro Fission Core
Engine Light Angular Momentum Engine
Power Core Micro Fission Core
Reactor Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion Light Treads
Treads Light Treads
Wheel Wheel
Leg Flexi-carbon Leg
Hover Unit Anti-Grav System
Utility Medium Storage Unit
Device Advanced Heat Sink
Storage Medium Storage Unit
Processor Targeting Computer
Protection Core Shielding
Weapon Compact Ion Cannon
Energy Gun Heavy Beamcaster
Energy Cannon Compact Ion Cannon
Ballistic Gun Assault Rifle
Ballistic Cannon Linear Accelerator
Launcher Improved Proton Missile Launcher

Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 18
Worker 27
Builder 29
Tunneler 2
Hauler 10
Recycler 19
Mechanic 3
Operator 1
Drone 1
Watcher 5
Swarmer 60
Saboteur 1
Grunt 60
Brawler 4
Duelist 3
Protector 1
Sentry 16
Hunter 24
Programmer 22
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 15
Combat Bots Only 10
Matter Collected 8224
Salvage Created 13028
Parts Attached 419
Power 53
Propulsion 49
Utility 163
Weapon 154
Parts Lost 191
Power 26
Propulsion 17
Utility 100
Weapon 48
Average Slot Usage (%) 81
Naked Turns 72
Spaces Moved 6919
Fastest Speed (%) 222
Slowest Speed (%) 4
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 2
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 170
Greatest Overweight (x) 45
Average Overweight (x) 3
Largest Inventory 28
Most Items Carried 24
Average Items Carried 9
Core Damage Taken 3322
Volleys Fired 690
Largest 4
Hottest 338
Shots Fired 1472
Gun 722
Cannon 586
Launcher 164
Special 0
Kinetic 579
Thermal 609
Explosive 70
Electromagnetic 214
Shots Hit Robots 819
Core Hits 558
Overload Shots 1
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 0
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 34829
Projectiles 20582
Explosions 14247
Melee 0
Ramming 0
Highest Temperature 476
Average Temperature 139
Shutdowns 19
Energy Bleed 4
Interference 5
Matter Decay 3
Short Circuit 1
Damage (minor) 3
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 12
Message Errors 53
Parts Rejected 14
Data loss (map) 55
Data loss (database) 33
Misfires 10
Misdirections 22
Targeting Errors 23
Weapon Failures 6
Haulers Intercepted 10
Robots Corrupted 15
Robots Melted 8
Tactical Retreats 30
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 6
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 19
Terminals 19
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Machines Hacked 19
Terminals 19
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Total Hacks 65
Successful 9
Failed 56
Catastrophic 18
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 22
Terminals 65
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Terminal Hacks 9
Record 0
Part Schematic 1
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 1
Open Door 3
Level Access Points 1
Branch Access Points 0
Emergency Access Points 0
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Alert Level 0
Unreport Threat 1
Locate Traps 1
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 0
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 1
Hacking Detections 26
Full Trace Events 15
Feedback Events 2
Feedback Corruption 2
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 1
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 0
Part Repair Time 0
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 20
Largest Group 3
Highest-Rated Group 13
Highest-Rated Ally 5
Total Orders 6
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 6
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 2820
Average Influence 476
Maximum Alert Level 4
Low Security (%) 51
Level 1 17
Level 2 9
Level 3 11
Level 4 9
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 48
Investigation 15
Extermination 11
Reinforcement 10
Assault 12
Exploration Rate (%) 19
Regions Visited 14
Turns Passed 15517
Depth 11 113
Depth 10 566
Depth 9 1129
Depth 8 1127
Depth 7 1189
Depth 6 4489
Depth 5 1565
Depth 4 915
Depth 3 426
Depth 2 1240
Depth 1 2758
Scrapyard 113
Materials 2822
Factory 6641
Research 1666
Access 2758
Storage 799
Waste 718

Prototype IDs
---------------
High-density Centrium Heavy Treads
Improved Flight Unit
Precision Beam Rifle
Cooled Particle Cannon
Compact Ion Cannon
Precision Grenade Launcher
Tiamat Missile Launcher
Experimental Cooling System
Experimental Power Amplifier
Inertial Stasis Machine
Quarantine Testbed
Thermal Defense Suite
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Experimental Field Recycling Unit

Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

Game
------
Seed: 1442229537
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 191 min
Sessions: 30
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 57
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Font: 12/Cogmind
Map View: 76x56

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[close]

Shobalk · September 14, 2015, 11:40:42 AM

Quote from: Kyzrati on September 14, 2015, 09:50:04 AM
Also, I don't believe anyone's discovered the new way to reset your security level to 0 when it gets out of hand. It's somewhat costly, but under the right circumstances it can be useful... (There will be a tip on that later.)

WHAT!?

Are there in-game clues at this point to deduce how to do this?

Kyzrati · September 14, 2015, 08:45:49 PM

Very close run, Happylisk!

Spoiler

Too bad it was Command and not the other one, otherwise you would've been out! (And with the top score at that.) That's why zxc just makes sure to hack the location and get out of there as soon as possible.

[close]

About Adraius, I was looking at the records, and he disappeared after only playing two very short runs that ended in -9, so our original combat Cogmind is unfortunately MIA :/

Quote from: Shobalk on September 14, 2015, 11:40:42 AM
WHAT!?

Are there in-game clues at this point to deduce how to do this?

Hehe, no. It's not impossible to deduce, but you'd have to get lucky or keep an unreasonably close eye on your security level. The hint will be available from NPCs you'll meet later (okay, they'll outright tell you). Like I said though, it's costly. It also may only be of limited use for anyone who can already punch their way through the Factory without too much difficulty, since it only works in the Factory.

zxc · September 14, 2015, 10:35:59 PM

Quote from: Kyzrati on September 14, 2015, 08:45:49 PM
Spoiler
That's why zxc just makes sure to hack the location and get out of there as soon as possible.
[close]

Spoiler

Actually in my last few runs I've been escaping without managing to hack the location of the exit. It's becoming easier over time to work out where the exit will be. Generally I find Access easier than Research for a stealth run.

[close]

Kyzrati · September 14, 2015, 11:41:01 PM

Excellent! It was my hope that experienced players will start to learn how each type of map is generally laid out, which while not always being a 100% certainty, this meta knowledge can free up some in-game resources for other uses.

zxc · September 14, 2015, 11:44:45 PM

Quote from: Kyzrati on September 14, 2015, 11:41:01 PM
Excellent! It was my hope that experienced players will start to learn how each type of map is generally laid out, which while not always being a 100% certainty, this meta knowledge can free up some in-game resources for other uses.

Finding exits in Research can be ridiculous though. It's like it's been designed for screwing with me! I do think Research is definitely the hardest part of the game, for any type of run.

Would be cool to generate layouts and see overviews of each map type with full visibility. I used to do it in DCSS wizmode to better learn level and monster generation.

Kyzrati · September 14, 2015, 11:53:08 PM

As per an earlier discussion with nsg21, it's possible we'll get map output capability. Not so sure about full visibility of undiscovered areas; some maps might be too easy to learn that way. We'll see, it's on the long-term list.

zxc · September 14, 2015, 11:57:33 PM

I was thinking something more like a large image output:

Also, I noticed recently I reached the edge of the map:

Spoiler

[close]

Could it be better to have an unbreakable wall around the edges instead of just blackness? I'm not sure really.

Kyzrati · September 15, 2015, 12:06:41 AM

Yeah, the map image is what I was talking about in the other thread. (You may have to read down a bit more.)

About the edges, that only happens if you dig/blast your way there, and I decided it was a waste of memory to pad a wall around the whole thing seeing as maps are so large. It also seems to me to be the more gamey approach, creating a visible barrier which implies it was built there.

Happylisk · September 15, 2015, 06:50:33 AM

Re: Maps, Access wasn't actually that bad.

Spoiler

I tried hacking the exit, but without hackware that went nowhere fast. I remember reading that the exit in access is near the center of the map, and that proved true.

I was thinking about my run last night and what kills me is how, well, I got killed. After I found Command I was a bit confused (and extremely disappointed. I was so damn excited opening those three doors beforehand). I thought, hey maybe the main exit is just a bit south. Just a bit south turned out to be the 2 B-99 Colossi guarding Command who blew my armor and guns off. Had I been a bit more spoiled, I would have turned back upon finding Command and would have still had a shot at escaping. I'm playing cogmind about 95% unspoiled though so I appreciate learning that the hard way.

Also, I didn't realize there were branches in Research. Found Quarantine for the first time. Really looking forward to getting my hands on some Sigix gear when that branch opens.

[close]

I'm more determined than ever after my Access death. I'm going to modify my gameplan slightly by adding fabrication into the mix. Doing more terminal hacking (especially

Spoiler

Access(Main))

[close]

really improved my game. I suspect not using basic fabrication is an unnecessary handicap, so it's time to fix that.

My goal is try to manufacture 2 Hcp. Storage Units before leaving Materials and 2 Drone bays before leaving Factory. The hcp units will take a lot of RNG out of the equation, and 2 drone bays are enough to make Research a thousand times easier (deploy one drone and then turn the bay off. If the first one finds the exit, deploying the second is a waste. Follow your drone around with the Alt-movement map command. If two are needed to find the exit, you want to delay the second launch anyway lest they travel together which is 99% of the time a waste).

K, I know drone bays are rating 3. Should be easy enough to get that schematic through indirect hacks. How much matter would it take to make one? Can I just have the matter in a container in my inventory, or do I need to attach it to a utility slot before fabrication? I've never done fabrication before.

Finally, I'm going to add

Spoiler

Inventory(Components)

[close]

to my list of routine indirect hacks. If there are drone bays just lying around, that's a heck of a lot easier than manufacturing them.

zxc · September 15, 2015, 07:17:48 AM

Quote from: Happylisk on September 15, 2015, 06:50:33 AM
Re: Maps, Access wasn't actually that bad.

Spoiler
I tried hacking the exit, but without hackware that went nowhere fast. I remember reading that the exit in access is near the center of the map, and that proved true.

I was thinking about my run last night and what kills me is how, well, I got killed. After I found Command I was a bit confused (and extremely disappointed. I was so damn excited opening those three doors beforehand). I thought, hey maybe the main exit is just a bit south. Just a bit south turned out to be the 2 B-99 Colossi guarding Command who blew my armor and guns off. Had I been a bit more spoiled, I would have turned back upon finding Command and would have still had a shot at escaping. I'm playing cogmind about 95% unspoiled though so I appreciate learning that the hard way.

Also, I didn't realize there were branches in Research. Found Quarantine for the first time. Really looking forward to getting my hands on some Sigix gear when that branch opens.
[close]

I'm more determined than ever after my Access death. I'm going to modify my gameplan slightly by adding fabrication into the mix. Doing more terminal hacking (especially
Spoiler
Access(Main))
[close]
really improved my game. I suspect not using basic fabrication is an unnecessary handicap, so it's time to fix that.

My goal is try to manufacture 2 Hcp. Storage Units before leaving Materials and 2 Drone bays before leaving Factory. The hcp units will take a lot of RNG out of the equation, and 2 drone bays are enough to make Research a thousand times easier (deploy one drone and then turn the bay off. If the first one finds the exit, deploying the second is a waste. Follow your drone around with the Alt-movement map command. If two are needed to find the exit, you want to delay the second launch anyway lest they travel together which is 99% of the time a waste).

K, I know drone bays are rating 3. Should be easy enough to get that schematic through indirect hacks. How much matter would it take to make one? Can I just have the matter in a container in my inventory, or do I need to attach it to a utility slot before fabrication? I've never done fabrication before.

Finally, I'm going to add
Spoiler
Inventory(Components)
[close]
to my list of routine indirect hacks. If there are drone bays just lying around, that's a heck of a lot easier than manufacturing them.

Matter container in your inventory is fine for fabrication. It's interesting how highly you value drone bays. I haven't tried them out myself. Maybe I should.

Happylisk · September 15, 2015, 07:43:51 AM

You don't use drones?!? Seriously dude, that's why you're struggling in Research. A drone launch (especially when you do it right and stagger the drones) has a real decent high chance of finding the exit. Even if it doesn't, it'll show you caches of items, you know which rooms to skip, you can see patrols, etc. Less time exploring is less time getting programmers dispatched. I breezed through Research cause of just 2 bays. They're only rating 3 so I'm confidant a dedicated combat cog could probably fab them with ease.

Info is king in this game. A pure combat cog can't hack it (literally) and doesn't have the speed and the sensor arrays of a stealth build. Drone bays are the most reliable way for a combat cog to get info once the security levels of terminals gets too high.

E: I answered my question above. A drone bay just takes 40 matter to fab. That's nothing! However, I was wrong about their rating. Rating 5. I wonder how feasible it will be to reliably fab them absent dedicated hackware. If fabbing them proves too hard, using a certain terminal hack to find drone caches in factory and just fabbing hcp storage units may be the way to go.

Kyzrati · September 15, 2015, 08:32:09 AM

Spoiler

Quote from: Happylisk on September 15, 2015, 06:50:33 AM
Also, I didn't realize there were branches in Research. Found Quarantine for the first time. Really looking forward to getting my hands on some Sigix gear when that branch opens.

It'll knock their robotic socks off. Some toys can be very, very dangerous though

[close]

Quote from: Happylisk on September 15, 2015, 07:43:51 AM
E: I answered my question above. A drone bay just takes 40 matter to fab. That's nothing! However, I was wrong about their rating. Rating 5. I wonder how feasible it will be to reliably fab them absent dedicated hackware. If fabbing them proves too hard, using a certain terminal hack to find drone caches in factory and just fabbing hcp storage units may be the way to go.

You've probably noticed there's often a cache found in Storage, too, if you want to go there. (Not 100% guaranteed, though.)

Kyzrati · September 15, 2015, 08:32:59 AM

Our latest set of stats:

zxc · September 15, 2015, 11:36:33 AM

Those min/max slot stats are very cool. I'm not sure they tell us that much, but I don't care, they're very cool!

I just had another combat run end in -3. This time I played much more carefully than usual, and made good use of drone bays (I now agree they are fantastic). I got lucky with some level exit hacks on -4 and -3, but reaching the stairs is another story. I'm telling you, I played it as perfectly as I could, but I still ended up dying simply due to attrition. I took a lot of screenshots to chronicle the run, especially the last floor where it all ended. I'm not sure there are major refinements to make to my strategy now - just playing carefully like that and hoping to get lucky. At the very end I ran out of weapons and took advantage of some flight units I was standing on to swap to flight and get away from a losing battle. With a few flight units and a power source I reached the stairs, but it was blocked by a sentry and I had enemies on all sides. I tried waiting nearby to get the sentry to move, but my core integrity was too low and I ended up dying before it moved. 12k score, reflecting my avoidance of enemies and care. Also, not a single HCP storage unit, and so few armour items to be had that I was suffocating. I still had a decent setup around late factory due to a cache of Imp. Force Fields and good power sources, but without enough armour they eventually all fell off.

I hate nosy ARCs.

Also, what exactly is the kill streak stat?

Edit:

Screenshot story of that run:

Spoiler

Start of -4. Doing OK considering the lack of decent armour.

Now here is something truly nasty. I was moving to a better position to fight from, but between moves my treads get rejected and my move delay suddenly becomes 1900; so unwittingly I allow a bunch of attacks on me. I think part rejection should stop actions for a time and be made slightly more obvious (like the collision warning).

Not in a good state...

Start of -3. I've salvaged the situation to a degree. Looking dandy now. Also, the entrance is enclosed inside a secret passage. How bizarre.

Amazingly I hack the location of the exits. It's a long trek.

Nasty battle

that never ends...

It's actually not a huge battle by the standards of my other combat runs, but nevertheless it's a key battle because it's so damaging. I'm out of weapons.

Salvaged what I could. You can see this is still extremely terrible. The slots are filled but this is the edge of ruin.

I manage to defeat two programmers with just a Hvy. Laser. Notice the flight units.

Doing what I can... It is pretty much just a question of when I will die at this point.

Yep, thank you ARC. That'll do it.

Now to try the most flimsy long-shot...

I did say flimsy.

And I did say long-shot.

[close]

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