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[Mr Goldstein]

This seems to happen when killing enemies with a launcher outside sight range  .
Also i got another bug , when exiting waste and finding an already identified branch exit it will use the stair icon instead of the door icon altough iv only seen this happen to cave exits  never had a chance to see if its same for E exits .

Kyzrati Edit: Changed title to refer to second issue

[Kyzrati]

This seems to happen when killing enemies with a launcher outside sight range  .

This is normal behavior, since any enemy that is lost to your sensors of any kind will not update until a complete sensor update happens. The '?' indicates that whatever was there is no longer valid for some reason (usually because it was destroyed) but hasn't updated yet.

Also i got another bug , when exiting waste and finding an already identified branch exit it will use the stair icon instead of the door icon altough iv only seen this happen to cave exits  never had a chance to see if its same for E exits .

Please use separate threads for separate unrelated issues, otherwise I can't organize them here! (That said, I'm pretty sure there's already a thread for this one because I've never been able to reliably repeat it.)

[R-26 Lightspeed]

Also i got another bug , when exiting waste and finding an already identified branch exit it will use the stair icon instead of the door icon altough iv only seen this happen to cave exits  never had a chance to see if its same for E exits .

Looking at your scoresheets in the online run database, I'm guessing you probably don't remember which runs and the exact levels in which you've had this happen, but if it were to happen again, i'd appreciate if you could think to make a scoresheet dump at the exact moment you witness this bug (or close enough) and share the scoresheet dump here (in its own thread, i mean).
I've been trying to collect more data about this bug to figure out its exact cause¹, so i'd be grateful for any extra data i can get.

¹I do actually have a pretty good theory, but there's a flaw in it. (my bug data and theory are in the attached file, if you're interested.)
(New bug data in newer post)
(i haven't played for a while, which is why i haven't been able to test my theory more thoroughly.)

(That said, I'm pretty sure there's already a thread for this one because I've never been able to reliably repeat it.)

I think perhaps the one you recall is a Steam thread, since none was ever made here (or if there was, i can't find it).

[Mr Goldstein]

Hope this helps

[R-26 Lightspeed]

Thanks for the info (and the extra screenshot)!
After seeing that your run had identified branch exits before the intermap through Access(branch), i wondered if i wasn't mistaken for thinking my second encounter identified branches through a signal interpreter.
As it turns out, it was actually my fourth encounter which was mistaken (it identified branches through derelict logs, not through a hack).
It also turns out all encounters of this bug i know of had found and identified all branch exits before entering the intermap. I wonder if that's one of the bug's requirements?

(I've attached the updated bug data i have, just in case someone is interested.)

[Kyzrati]

I updated the thread title and moved it back to the known issues board.

I think perhaps the one you recall is a Steam thread, since none was ever made here (or if there was, i can't find it).

Ah no, I'd assumed it was here (though didn't look), but on checking my notes I discovered that it was brought up on Discord a few times, including by some people with more specific descriptions as to how to potentially recreate it, but I was still never able to do so reliably (or at all).

Latest record I looked into:

RNGesus: Hey Kyzrati, when I've used access(branch) on a floor, then jumped in a chute, the exit on the new map will be revealed on sight but it won't turn into a branch exit visually

(includes the expected screenshot).

After testing it though:

I tried to repeat this multiple times following the exact steps as described, but couldn't repeat the issue--for me it shows as a branch tile normally (makes me wonder if there wasn't more to the original situation that remains unknown/unexplained)

[R-26 Lightspeed]

I've started a run dedicated to hunting down possible bugs, as well as trying to figure out the exact cause of this bug.

In this run, i managed to make the bug occur every single time i started the session before the area it happens in.
Attached to this post are two save files from that run and the manual save for both.
The unnamed save file starts before the setup for the bug, in -8/Materials.
The "Wastes" file is the save file closest to the bug happening, where the only thing required to witness the bug is to exit the Wastes and go to the western side of the Factory map to visually find one of the two Caves exits (they're both on that side, relatively close to each other).
I tested from that save file and from many other points; The only times the bug didn't occur was when starting the session in the post-Wastes -7/Factory. (Every time, i had previously identified the exit using access(branch).)

I know that this is a very low priority bug, but here's the savefiles anyway for whenever you want to investigate further.
If the bug somehow manages to not occur for you with those savefiles, then there's probably some difference between my Cogmind installation and yours. (I'm still playing on Linux through Proton.)

[Kyzrati]

Ah cool, thanks for the saves, if repeatable that'd be neat to knock this off the list

Too bad the notification for this one came in rather late today, since I was just doing some debugging in the older version earlier and was all set up for that, but now I'm back on the next version again so I guess it'll have to wait until return to older things to check this out...

[R-26 Lightspeed]

To clarify just in case (even if it's marked on the save files' names and wouldn't cause many issues anyway), those are save files for Beta 13.
(I'd forgotten that this topic was created mentioning Beta 12 specifically.)

[Kyzrati]

Found the exits you were referring to, but... weirdly it still doesn't happen for me. Did a bunch of tests using these files as a starting point, and follow the same steps, but it's all still working normally. Pretty inexplicable.



Fortunately it's minor, but I'd certainly like to know why. Doesn't seem like this is likely to be resolved, hm :/

[R-26 Lightspeed]

Given that it happens for me not just sometimes, but always, i think the problem has to lie with a difference between our computers/setups.
The possibilities i see are :

-The bug only happens on Linux, which would mean everyone who has experienced the bug played on Linux. That might easy to verify?

-The bug is due to something less specific than just playing on Linux, which would make it somewhat difficult to identify without asking a bunch of people to try to reproduce the bug.

-The bug is due to something that for some reason doesn't happen in a debug environment. If your tests included using a non-debug version of Cogmind (unlike in the GIF), then you already know the answer to that one.

-The bug is due to something that for some reason doesn't affect specifically your computer. For instance, maybe in the specific scenario of this bug, the game would try to get the stairs sprite from outside the game folder instead of the one already in the game folder¹. Then, upon failure, the game would default to using the stairs sprite instead.
In this scenario, the bug would not occur on your computer because the sprite the game tries to get does exist on your computer, but not on anyone else's.

¹Because of some error like using an absolute path instead of a relative one, for instance. Actually, i could try to verify that specific possibility myself... (even if this specific possibility makes a lot of assumptions about how the game works.)

[Kyzrati]

Yep, my first inclination purely from the logic has been Linux-only, but that wouldn't make much sense given its nature. Of course if any other Linux players are happy to try it out from here and confirm that'd be fine, too

There is no "grab the stairs sprite from outside the game." This would be some other sort of game-specific memory state issue.

Testing in an actual release build would be the next step to confirm, but that takes even longer and there's also nothing unique about release builds in this regard so is assumed unlikely to turn up anything. To that point, unfortunately by now I've already put waaaaaaaaay too many hours into this for what is a very unimportant issue, so I've decided it will live on forever! Pretty rare that that happens, but it's both rare and inconsequential so that's okay. I'm pretty curious about this one, to be sure, but not curious enough to continue derailing development for it

[R-26 Lightspeed]

Testing in an actual release build would be the next step to confirm, but that takes even longer and there's also nothing unique about release builds in this regard so is assumed unlikely to turn up anything. To that point, unfortunately by now I've already put waaaaaaaaay too many hours into this for what is a very unimportant issue, so I've decided it will live on forever!

That makes sense. I'm actually a bit surprised that you even tested it this much because i thought you'd already said that you wouldn't investigate further in the past.

Anyhow, even if you won't investigate it further, i'm still going to do so as much as i can!
I remembered that you do upload your streams, which i could check to see if you experienced the bug in them. I think i'd done that in the past, but didn't find any occurence.
However, some of your more recent streams involve Garrisons and branches... Okay this one is from a year ago, but you can clearly see the bug happening on your computer at 2:30:25 :
https://youtu.be/3lea1bK5o-s?t=9025

(You get the branch(access) intel in the previous same-floor Factory map at 46:19)


Unless i'm missing another possibility, i think all this is enough to prove that your debug environment is different from a release build in some way.
So even though i've just said i would still try to investigate it as much as i can, i don't think i can do much more. My investigation ends here as well!

[Kyzrati]

Yeah I recall that one, and have noticed it a few other times as well, chalking it up to spotting an exit that was previously known before using the chutes, which is what I thought must be causing the bug, and where all my testing efforts were focused, but I have seen absolutely no evidence of it in the code, regardless of whether it happens in releases xD

[R-26 Lightspeed]

There's a question i never asked because i assumed that your inability to reproduce the bug meant it was more complex than i thought.
However, now that i know that you never actually tried to reproduce the bug in a non-debug environment, and that the bug is otherwise perfectly consistent as far as i can tell, it might actually be relevant.


Apologies if it's a dumb question, but is there actually a check for identified branch exits when entering a map?

To clarify, all my encounters with this bug have led me to the following conclusion on how the exit sprites works :
When you enter an area, the exits are all by default set to "stairs".
The only two things that can change this are :

-Identifying a branch exit. This explains why access(branch) "fixes" the bug; Unlike Signal Interpreters, it always causes an identification even, even when that exit is already identified.

-Launching the game (and other similar "reload" actions). During that process, the game checks if a branch exit is already identified, and if it has, its sprite gets set to the branch exit sprite. This explains why restarting the game fixes the issue.
If some part of the setup or some of your tools like the thing that "teleported" you near the spot in the gif above causes the game to "reload", then this would explain why your attempts at debugging failed.


If what i've described is accurate to how the game handles exit sprites, then that might be where the bug comes from;
When entering an area, you can never have any branch exits identified unless said area is a garrison leading to a branch or a "main map" that you looped back to from a submap.
Even some derelict intel that identifies branch exits can only apply after at least a turn has passed.
And given that you previously wrote the following :

I tried this and you do get instant on-sight identification of previously known exits on seeing them again after looping back to the same map (which is something I was always wondering about before),

Maybe you just... never added a check so that when entering a map, already identified branch exits would be set to the "branch exit" sprite?
That check does exists when loading an area after quitting the game and the such, but maybe it doesn't when entering an area?


Again, apologies if that's a dumb question; I don't want to cause you to waste more of your time with this bug, but i also didn't want to have just never asked that question.

[R-26 Lightspeed]

For anyone curious, it's as i suspected in my previous post, nothing to do with garrisons or wastes.
They're just the most common way to encounter the bug, which is literally just "enter an area that has a branch exit that's already been identified this floor." which has become extremely easy to do with the exits to Subcaves (but not more common, few would attach a regular Signal Interpreter at this depth).

[Kyzrati]

Not sure what you mean here, in terms of specific steps. Like just from your screenshot I'm assuming:

1. Identify Subcaves entrance in -10/MAT via Signal Interpreter, but take exit to -10/MIN
2. Find Subcaves entrance in -10/MIN, and it appears as stairs when you see it?

I'm not seeing that result. All works normally as far as I see it.

[R-26 Lightspeed]

These conditions :
1. Identify Subcaves entrance in -10/MAT via Signal Interpreter, but take exit to -10/MIN
2. Don't quit or do anything that reloads the game after entering -10/MIN
3. Find Subcaves entrance in -10/MIN, and it appears as stairs when you see it.

are correct, but also incomplete. I suspect that there is a third condition, which is either :
A. Play on a release build rather than a debug build.
B. Don't use any debug tools that identifies exits or reloads the game after entering -10/MIN
C. Play using the mouse.
(These are the only things i can think of that might be different between out attempts at replicating this bug, and i'd be surprised if C mattered.)


This bug has always appeared for me every single time i met the conditions of "enter an area that has a branch exit that's already been identified this floor,
and i would be extremely surprised if it wasn't also the case for this version of it.

I've only tried to have this bug with the Subcaves exit once (edit: tried two more times, bug occurred every time), but given how easy and not out-of-the-way it is to replicate the steps above,
you could probably ask some players if doing those steps in their next run that goes through -10/MIN does in fact cause the bug.

[R-26 Lightspeed]

I attached a save file that showcases the bug extremely easily for anyone who would want to see if they can replicate it. The steps are just :
-Play on release build?
-Enter the Mines, hug the upper wall going right, then dig where there's earth (using the Mining Laser in inventory) until you find the Subcaves exit (like in the first attached screenshot). It takes less than one minute to get there.

But hang on, WHAT?
Making this save file, i noticed another instance of an identified branch exit looking like stairs, without any setup multi-area setup, and this one stays after quitting the game!
As in, if i load the attached save file, the game displays the already identified Subcaves exit as stairs, like on the second attached screenshot!
I'm not sure if that's the same bug or a different one.

(I did confirm, in the attached save file, while the Materials exit to Subcaves stays a stair through quitting, the Mines entrance to Subcaves becomes a door after quitting.)

[Kyzrati]

Yep, I see it in trying your particular save, will examine the data more closely I guess to see if that shows anything. But funny enough, I also tried multiple times on my own with the steps I mentioned, and adhered to all of the other state requirements, too, yet as you can see in the latest quick run via my Steam account I did just now, everything looks normal...

(Note: If there is a separate issue with something else, please make a separate thread for that to keep things clear, thanks.)

[Kyzrati]

Okay yeah I think your save was enough to finally track this one down

Still looking for all the details, but should be resolved next version. Sure was complicated!

[Kyzrati]

But hang on, WHAT?
Making this save file, i noticed another instance of an identified branch exit looking like stairs, without any setup multi-area setup, and this one stays after quitting the game!
As in, if i load the attached save file, the game displays the already identified Subcaves exit as stairs, like on the second attached screenshot!
I'm not sure if that's the same bug or a different one.

Also I'm fairly certain this is related, and indeed the same issue (therefore won't be seen once I fix this). Funny how it all lasted this long, but for years there have been intermittent reports of branch entrances looking funky sometimes, but no one could quite figure out if there was any pattern to it xD

[R-26 Lightspeed]

Okay yeah I think your save was enough to finally track this one down

Still looking for all the details, but should be resolved next version. Sure was complicated!

My nemesis has been defeated at last? I'd kinda given up on that idea, and had resolved to just document my findings best i could.
Congratulations on figuring it out!

Also that save's seed was probably one of the luckiest i could have gotten for that purpose. Rare event i'd only found once before dealing with a bunch of unaware, a stockpiled Signal Interpreter, and quick access to the Mines' Subcaves exit.
In stark contrast with another seed whose Scrapyard had three EM Pulse Guns. They were destroying bots so slowly... and kept corrupting their weapons.

Funny how it all lasted this long, but for years there have been intermittent reports of branch entrances looking funky sometimes, but no one could quite figure out if there was any pattern to it xD

I mean i did figure out a pattern (after logging all my encounters with it), one that allowed me to replicate the bug with a 100% success rate,
but apparently there was one(?) extra requirement that eluded me because i somehow always met it?
I'm so curious as to what the extra requirement was, i hope that the patch notes/changelog will contain the full cause of this one!

(Note: If there is a separate issue with something else, please make a separate thread for that to keep things clear, thanks.)

Understood! I now realize that if i had made a new topic in case it was unrelated, you probably could've just merged it.

[Kyzrati]

Changelog just lists it as a fix, but it was fairly rare to encounter and actually was pretty mundane, so not really anything to write home about.

Internally two exits from different maps that had the exact same target map would have the second one appear as stairs unless you load a save while in the second map itself, because the override for the tile appearance was only checked in two places: loading a save, and upon learning the destination for the first time anywhere in the first map. Years ago I think I was trying to fix this issue before it was on the forums and mistakenly assumed it had to do with save data, so corrected that, but that wasn't the spot that actually needed adjusting at all, or at least didn't solve it in all cases.

[R-26 Lightspeed]

Internally two exits from different maps that had the exact same target map would have the second one appear as stairs unless you load a save while in the second map itself, because the override for the tile appearance was only checked in two places: loading a save, and upon learning the destination for the first time anywhere in the first map. Years ago I think I was trying to fix this issue before it was on the forums and mistakenly assumed it had to do with save data, so corrected that, but that wasn't the spot that actually needed adjusting at all, or at least didn't solve it in all cases.

I kinda already knew this? The post i made in this thread on May 18th was me wondering if this wasn't the cause of the bug.

I was actually wondering about why your bug reproduction attempts failed where mine had succeeded;
Since you followed the same steps as me multiple times, but never managed to reproduce the bug,
i assume that there was some requirement that you never met but that i somehow always met?