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Author Topic: "Sound range" option  (Read 5331 times)

R-26 Lightspeed

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"Sound range" option
« on: January 30, 2022, 10:33:50 AM »

Instead of just giving a option for the player to change a value (that corresponds to the maximum volume a sound can make, i think) and scale every sound based on that value, this option would give players an additional setting, one to change the "minimum"  volume a sound can make, and scale every sound based on those two values.

That way, someone could put the maximum volume option low, but still be able to hear the already faint, now fainter sounds. Or just to be able to hear faint sounds more easily.
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Kyzrati

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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2022, 12:28:50 AM »

Yeah that's an interesting idea. I've never even heard of (or seen) a game do that before :P

Unfortunately it wouldn't really fit in the options menu. It could be an optional setting directly in the system config file, but it could take a while to add this so I'd want to see more support for it first. Note that this would also of course compress the volume levels such that it would become more difficult to audibly distinguish just how far away certain things are.

In general it would seem like if it's an already distant sound made more faint by lowing the volume, one could use the audio log to confirm...
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2022, 10:25:57 AM »

In general it would seem like if it's an already distant sound made more faint by lowing the volume, one could use the audio log to confirm...
Yes, that's what i do. In fact, before the audio log, i didn't know some things even made sounds.
The usefulness of this option (for me) would be more along the lines of being able to hear the sounds in order to hear the sounds. For example, i would like to know what sound the garrison relay coupler container (i forgot its name) makes.
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Kyzrati

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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2022, 03:48:32 PM »

Interesting you mention because that's not a quiet sound at all. I mean almost all positional audio is relatively quiet around their maximum distance. But part of the reason audio comes in gradually at a distance is because this is much more natural and atmospheric, and sounds that far away are usually not generally that important (I mean if you're in a particular area known for a certain machine, like the Relay, and you're looking for it, then that's what the Audio Log can show you anyway...).

If you have a minimum volume set for all this stuff, note that as you move around there will be a lot of audio sources suddenly "popping" in and out, and it's going to sound pretty bad overall. This is also why the audio for machines was tweaked on a per-machine basis to set appropriate distances and corresponding falloff rates, because the environment is very annoying and terrible-sounding otherwise :P
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2022, 02:45:47 AM »

so I'd want to see more support for it first.

Count me in. I also didn't even realize there were some sounds in the game until the sound log got added. And having to constantly check the sound log to see if I came in range of a machine is annoying.
That said I understand that all the sound volumes and their falloff were carefully adjusted for the current settings and adding a minimum sound volume might break it. :(
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R-26 Lightspeed

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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2022, 10:16:42 AM »

Interesting you mention because that's not a quiet sound at all. I mean almost all positional audio is relatively quiet around their maximum distance.
Just to be clear, i meant when standing right next to them. Although maybe i'm mixing Relays up with other machines, but still.

Before the audio log, since explosions and gunfire and that kind of stuff are the kind of thing that i don't hear when they're too far away, it sometimes seemed like sudden slowdown, since i couldn't move until those sounds that i couldn't hear played.


If you have a minimum volume set for all this stuff, note that as you move around there will be a lot of audio sources suddenly "popping" in and out, and it's going to sound pretty bad overall.
Technically, that already happens, since there's no middle ground between sound and no sound.
If i had the option available, however, i would set it so it would feel as natural as it could while allowing me to hear things, or at least the things right next to me.
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Kyzrati

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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2022, 09:20:24 PM »

If you have a minimum volume set for all this stuff, note that as you move around there will be a lot of audio sources suddenly "popping" in and out, and it's going to sound pretty bad overall.
Technically, that already happens, since there's no middle ground between sound and no sound.
Not sure what you mean by that, since all machine ambience already has a natural falloff, with nearly no sound as you approach the outer edges and gradually getting louder the closer to the source. I've shown the visualizations in various articles on my blog as well, and we did a dev stream where I tested it out and showed how this stuff works while setting values/behavior.

Sure they zone in and out as you move over a greater distance, but not what I'm referring to here, where with a minimum you'd go from hearing absolutely nothing to having a suddenly loud machine in earshot when you take a single step.

Interesting you mention because that's not a quiet sound at all. I mean almost all positional audio is relatively quiet around their maximum distance.
Just to be clear, i meant when standing right next to them.
Huh okay I had no idea you mean that since you were referring to minimum volume, which only occurs at the edge of a machine's audible radius. If you mean when standing right next to it, doesn't that simply imply turning up the volume? Garrison Relays can normally be heard from a fairly good distance away (designed such so that you have a hint that one is nearby when behind hidden pathways and such, or around a corner), so it sounds like overall maybe you have your volume turned down really low? Perhaps what you can do to achieve a relative volume change is lower the volume of the non-environmental sfx and raise the volume of environmental sfx in particular, so that they are bought out of the background more.
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2022, 09:57:50 AM »

Sure they zone in and out as you move over a greater distance, but not what I'm referring to here, where with a minimum you'd go from hearing absolutely nothing to having a suddenly loud machine in earshot when you take a single step.
Yes, that's why i said
If i had the option available, however, i would set it so it would feel as natural as it could while allowing me to hear things, or at least the things right next to me.

Huh okay I had no idea you mean that since you were referring to minimum volume, which only occurs at the edge of a machine's audible radius. If you mean when standing right next to it, doesn't that simply imply turning up the volume? Garrison Relays can normally be heard from a fairly good distance away (designed such so that you have a hint that one is nearby when behind hidden pathways and such, or around a corner), so it sounds like overall maybe you have your volume turned down really low? Perhaps what you can do to achieve a relative volume change is lower the volume of the non-environmental sfx and raise the volume of environmental sfx in particular, so that they are bought out of the background more.
(Note: It's been a while since i last played, it's possible i might've mixed up Garrison Relays with something else.)
Nope, changing "max" volume, specifically for environmental sfx or not, wouldn't actually solve my problem because then other machines would be too loud!
I seem to have a lower volume "limit" preference than most(?) people do, which causes me to miss out on sounds, which is why i thought about the concept of "sound range" as a potential solution.
(I guess another theoretical solution would be to have the ability to change volume separately for every single thing?)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 10:01:00 AM by R-26 Lightspeed »
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R-26 Lightspeed

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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2022, 02:39:35 AM »

Okay so the thing about me not hearing some things while standing right next to them might actually be a hardware issue on my side. What kind of sound are Garrison Relays supposed to make? With what "instrument"?

The issue of not hearing distant sounds is probably very unrelated, sadly.
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Kyzrati

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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2022, 06:44:33 PM »

A hardware issue, eh? Relays are a slowly pulsing deep hum, and it could be that you're specifically having trouble picking it out from the consistent garrison interior drone, in which case overall dropping the Locale volume will almost certainly help a lot there. Try it and see the difference. Like setting Locale to 0% makes the relay really stand out amidst the silence, by comparison.

The issue of not hearing distant sounds is probably very unrelated, sadly.
Not hearing distant sounds is really the intent though, as described. They're meant to fade out. This is a feature I don't think I'd want into the release version of the game, either, since it has the potential to make the audioscape sound really poorly done/low quality.

But that's also what the audio log is there for, to ensure you know all sounds that could theoretically be heard, even if they are quite low volume because they're currently far away (or for whatever other reason--like sometimes there might be a number of different ones playing at once and you can't distinguish them quite as easily).
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2022, 11:34:58 AM »

Not hearing distant sounds is really the intent though, as described. They're meant to fade out. This is a feature I don't think I'd want into the release version of the game, either, since it has the potential to make the audioscape sound really poorly done/low quality.

But that's also what the audio log is there for, to ensure you know all sounds that could theoretically be heard, even if they are quite low volume because they're currently far away (or for whatever other reason--like sometimes there might be a number of different ones playing at once and you can't distinguish them quite as easily).
(sorry for late reply)
While not hearing distant sounds is the intent, i'm not hearing sounds that i think aren't far enough to be intently unheard, if that makes sense?
While the audio log is the best way i can think of to solve those other problems, and the audio log allows me to not be handicapped by my low volume, my problem is that i'd like to hear those sounds at a time closer to when a "normal" user does. (I just want to make the reason for this suggestion clear, i can definitely do without, as i already have.)

This is a feature I don't think I'd want into the release version of the game, either, since it has the potential to make the audioscape sound really poorly done/low quality.
Did you not already say it would have to be an advanced option, (i'm guessing specifically to lower that kind of accident?) or do you mean something else?
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Kyzrati

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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2022, 06:05:20 PM »

Not hearing distant sounds is really the intent though, as described. They're meant to fade out. This is a feature I don't think I'd want into the release version of the game, either, since it has the potential to make the audioscape sound really poorly done/low quality.

But that's also what the audio log is there for, to ensure you know all sounds that could theoretically be heard, even if they are quite low volume because they're currently far away (or for whatever other reason--like sometimes there might be a number of different ones playing at once and you can't distinguish them quite as easily).
(sorry for late reply)
While not hearing distant sounds is the intent, i'm not hearing sounds that i think aren't far enough to be intently unheard, if that makes sense?
While the audio log is the best way i can think of to solve those other problems, and the audio log allows me to not be handicapped by my low volume, my problem is that i'd like to hear those sounds at a time closer to when a "normal" user does. (I just want to make the reason for this suggestion clear, i can definitely do without, as i already have.)
Seems pretty clear, although I also think you might be overestimating what "normal" users are hearing, because to be honest a lot of individual machines are not entirely audible until you get closer (especially depending on other environmental factors), but the audio log will report them all the same because technically if you isolated the sound, you would be more likely to hear it at full or near-full range. I don't generally hear them at full range under my normal settings, either :P. This is especially true of machines like the Relays, which have a more subdued sound which does get more audible at various points, but is drawn out over a longer period so as you're moving you may not always have time to immediately react to it.

Note there is also another factor at play here: Diffusion. Garrison Relays in particular often have their volume cut because they're hidden behind other features that partially block sound, specifically phase walls, which are what will lead to this issue a lot more frequently than you find with other machines (since you're not as likely to be looking for other machines to begin with, either). This is a side effect of the Garrison environment itself, not the machine.

I'm now wondering if you need this tweak for any other purposes/locations/machines--is it just this situation? Sounds almost like what you really want here is to remove diffusion inside garrisons, or to disable the diffusion effect of phase walls (though it exists to let you know there is something hidden nearby, which you can tell based on a combination of your knowledge of the local layout and very low volume, which is intended there).

This is a feature I don't think I'd want into the release version of the game, either, since it has the potential to make the audioscape sound really poorly done/low quality.
Did you not already say it would have to be an advanced option, (i'm guessing specifically to lower that kind of accident?) or do you mean something else?
Actually my point here was that I don't really like the idea of this particular feature being in the game at all, even as an option, because if anyone ends up using it to stream/record the game it could easily give a very bad impression... Anyway, I can test it at some point and we'll see.
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2022, 10:47:23 AM »

Seems pretty clear, although I also think you might be overestimating what "normal" users are hearing,
It is possible my probable hardware issue is causing my estimate to be skewed, although i'm pretty sure my volume is lower than most people, which i'd think of as the possible source of the problem. I'll let you know once my hardware issue is resolved(might take a while) if the problem persists. If my hardware issue isn't the source of the problem, then[continued after quote]
I'm now wondering if you need this tweak for any other purposes/locations/machines--is it just this situation?
[continued from before quote]No, i "need" this tweak for at least a few games, if not most or all.
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2022, 04:20:38 PM »

I see... yet more interesting info...
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2022, 04:56:17 AM »

Quote from: Beta 11 manual
* minimumPropVolume: A value from 0~100, setting the minimum volume at which to play ambient machine audio, regardless of distance. Set to 0 for default falloff behavior. Note that changes due to values greater than 0 are not reflected in the audio log, which still accurately reports volume levels relative to the actual distance, falloff, and other factors.
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2022, 09:55:45 AM »

Quote from: Beta 11 manual
* minimumPropVolume: A value from 0~100, setting the minimum volume at which to play ambient machine audio, regardless of distance. Set to 0 for default falloff behavior. Note that changes due to values greater than 0 are not reflected in the audio log, which still accurately reports volume levels relative to the actual distance, falloff, and other factors.
Thanks, I can't wait to try it out!
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2022, 05:00:57 PM »

Well it better be right xD

Already spent over an hour implementing it, and I did do a bunch of tests and it seems to have the desired effect without affecting other features...
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2022, 10:35:55 AM »

It seems to work,(i set it to 20) thank you again!
(Re-reading the setting description, it seems there was a (good) misunderstanding : the setting only affects ambient machine sounds (as opposed to everything). I think the current implementation definitely made things better than what i was actually suggesting, at least for me.)
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Re: "Sound range" option
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2022, 08:47:03 PM »

Okay whew, good to hear, and also probably good for you to "hear," too ;)
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