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Author Topic: I feel hollow  (Read 7099 times)

biomatter

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I feel hollow
« on: June 05, 2015, 03:29:15 AM »

I should have died on Research -2. By a stroke of luck I found the stairs with less than 30 core life and an army hot on my heels. I had finally done it - I got a pure combat build to level -1, known as 'Access'. From the get-go, it was a never-ending stream of Programmers and Hunters, and yet somehow I managed to keep myself together and parts in most of my slots. (Related note: Plating is not common enough on that floor considering how frequent fights are. Or maybe it's just not strong enough - it never lasted more than a single fight.) After fighting 2 H-88 Terminators paired with 2 B-99 Colossi in a unique area, I found my reward: broken stairs. Armed with only a Multirail and Lgt. Ion Engines because those bastard Recyclers are omnipresent, I scraped myself back into shape again, defeating yet another wave of Programmers. Corruption is rising. My map is hopeless. I'm not stupid and I know when I've been somewhere already, but it makes analyzing what you have explored to try to deduce the right direction impossible. I ambled for another twenty minutes before getting in my last fateful fight - two Terminators accompanied by three Sages. That was it for me. Even three Adv. Targeting Computers aren't enough to help get a bead on Terminators - and it doesn't help they have tons of core life. Quickly stripped of everything I owned, I ran. I ran for another five minutes before finally succumbing, confused and cold and alone against seven traveling Plagues. At least I took half the bastards out before I dropped.

I spent 50 minutes on that bloody floor, 50 minutes of utter hopelessness. It took me an hour and a half to get to -1, and another hour just to die. My game lasted 8000~ turns, and 45% of them were on that accursed floor. When I spawned into Access, there were two directions I could have gone - north and south. I went south. I guess I should have gone north.

In every area, Materials, Factory, Research, Access, I had my items all wiped time and time again. I must've been burnt to naked over ten times only to claw my way back, saving my best parts in my inventory and trying again on the next floor, only to lose it all again, and again, and again. I wanted to quit so badly so many times but it just feels wrong to give in and hold 5, even though I know trying harder just makes losing more painful. As a matter of fact, I think I ascended naked more times than I did competent. Maybe it's not so surprising Arseface can get to -1 just running naked. Why am I even fighting when running is so much stronger? Oh yeah, that's right - score.

I think the real icing on the cake, though, is that I still didn't even set a new high score, let alone a personal high score. Did you know you don't get any points for that final ascension? My best is 10,910 and I didn't even make it past Factory on that run, but this time I was 10 points short of a new personal record. Kyzrati said that someone else has reached 14,000. I almost wonder if they exploited some strange mechanics. Score increases mostly from value destroyed - did they just nuke every stockpile they came across? Did they get a decent set-up somewhere on Factory and just camp the stairs, obliterating anything that came by for as long as possible? I have no idea.

Sorry for moping guys, this is just my way of coping. It was a good run. Here are some interesting items I found, because I owe something to anyone that read that lol

Exp. Anti-Grav System
Exp. Cooling System
Inertial Stasis Machine
Spectral Analyzer

Full album here
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Arseface

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 03:35:22 AM »

Welp, you know what they say
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biomatter

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 03:42:35 AM »

get rekt nerd?
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jimmijamjams

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 04:24:15 AM »

Epic and worth the read :)

Plus you know how much I love a good cooling system...  Oh baby....
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Arseface

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 07:28:02 AM »

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Kyzrati

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 08:39:02 AM »

Rekt, indeed, but Epic Rekt!

That's a pretty damn good run to spend half of it in Access. It's a tough floor.

Good to know that you managed to rambo your way through the previous floors, too.

By a stroke of luck I found the stairs with less than 30 core life and an army hot on my heels.
Epic. Reminds me of one of Jimmi's videos in which he's running around fighting on literally 1 integrity for a while. Would have been amazing if he'd managed to find an exit like that.

After fighting 2 H-88 Terminators paired with 2 B-99 Colossi in a unique area, I found my reward: broken stairs.
You must've found the entrance to Command.

Why am I even fighting when running is so much stronger? Oh yeah, that's right - score.
Precisely. The more you fight the harder and more risky the game becomes, so it's a balancing act to maximize your score while still reaching the end.

Did you know you don't get any points for that final ascension?
This is actually an oversight on my part, one that is fixed for the next release. Didn't you also notice that in your winning run, the game said your location was still -1/Access? It should've been "Surface" and given you extra points, but I was planning on revamping the scoring system at some point so didn't quite get to it yet. I didn't really imagine you guys would beat the game before I had a chance to release again :P

So, because I know it bugs you I actually looked into that 14,000 score sheet, and apparently they were cheating, so that one doesn't count. Right now the highest legitimate scores are a few around 10k. Your latest run could possibly be the highest at present, though I have no automation set up so I can't be sure.
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biomatter

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 02:42:39 PM »

You know, I thought it was funny that I didn't get points for the final ascension, but I guess I'm just daft because I never considered it was a bug... I just that it was a strange decision. Like I've said before: I'm dumb.

So, because I know it bugs you I actually looked into that 14,000 score sheet, and apparently they were cheating, so that one doesn't count. Right now the highest legitimate scores are a few around 10k. Your latest run could possibly be the highest at present, though I have no automation set up so I can't be sure.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Cheating?! How? Why?!? Actually, before I beat the game, I did entertain thoughts of abusing known bugs and whatnot to help my runs, but I would absolutely die inside if I did that. Like.... I wouldn't feel right for the rest of my life dun dun duuuuun. I have also wondered if it's possibly to modify the log that gets uploaded, but I'm not tech-savvy enough to do that and it sounds borderline-malicious. I can promise I only entertained thoughts of sending silly logs though :P

I do kind of worry about something, though: Leaderboards. I know people keep going on about them, but every game's leaderboard I've ever seen was just filled with bogus scores. I guess maybe we have the benefit of being a small community, but it isn't exactly tiny. Kyzrati will know the numbers best, but I'm fairly sure over a thousand people have bought Alpha access, perhaps significantly more. Moderating a leaderboard is hard and methods to falsify logs will get elaborate, I'm sure.

THANKS FOR PUTTING UP WITH ME GUYS. Everything feels not-so-bad after a good sleep.
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Kyzrati

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 07:59:57 PM »

I'm not planning to reveal details about how they cheated ;)

Leaderboard cheating is a problem, one that has a few methods to defend against, but unfortunately the 100% foolproof automated methods can't be used in Cogmind :(

The only other way to keep the board clean is to manually remove obvious cheats, or manually prevent them from getting there in the first place by delaying stat posting and filtering what goes up. Naturally the latter would be a pretty time-consuming effort. Maybe err on the side of caution and temporarily block anything that even hints at being suspicious based on a script, requiring manual confirmation for those.

I guess we'll just take it one step at a time and see what happens. Either way, for an official tournament I will personally scrutinize any scoresheets before they're allowed to participate, and can write a script to partially automate the confirmation procedure.
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Arseface

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 08:50:32 PM »

I tend to care a lot less about ladders than seed contests. Seed contests are where the men are separated from the lucky people.

Replays, if you ever get them working, would be a foolproof means of hack-checking. I know you said it wasn't reliable, but I'll just hope for the future. Or Cogmind 2: The Complete Engine Rewrite.
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Kyzrati

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 11:53:56 PM »

Yeah, 100% foolproof scoresheets aren't possible for the same reason that replays aren't possible. The engine just isn't built for it because I didn't think of it from the beginning.

I did fix the seed system for the next release, so those will be working.

And I'd prefer Cogmind 2 not requiring a complete rewrite, so I could finish it in a reasonable amount of time :P. But that's getting way ahead of where we are now...
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biomatter

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2015, 12:13:05 AM »

Cogmind 2 when?!?!!!?1?
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Kyzrati

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2015, 01:45:13 AM »

Dunno, 2017? Never? Don't mark your calendars...
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Arseface

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2015, 02:01:06 AM »

Dunno, 2017? Never? Don't mark your calendars...
Just go with "Before Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter III: Starting From Scratch" is finished.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 02:52:47 AM by Arseface »
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nsg21

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2015, 01:52:49 PM »

So, because I know it bugs you I actually looked into that 14,000 score sheet, and apparently they were cheating,
[/quote]

How do someone cheat at cogmind? I've seen screenshots with 2000 core/2000 energy/2000 matter, so I assume there is some secret combination to press to get there? I am asking for a friend.
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Arseface

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2015, 02:52:18 PM »

How do someone cheat at cogmind? I've seen screenshots with 2000 core/2000 energy/2000 matter, so I assume there is some secret combination to press to get there? I am asking for a friend.
I'm guessing they memory hacked. I should try after I win to see if that's what they did.

I'd turn off score uploads when I did it though. It's poor form hacking in ladders.
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Kyzrati

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Re: I feel hollow
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2015, 08:30:53 PM »

How do someone cheat at cogmind? I've seen screenshots with 2000 core/2000 energy/2000 matter, so I assume there is some secret combination to press to get there? I am asking for a friend.
There are no cheat codes of any kind. Cheating requires hacking the game's memory, which isn't too difficult.

I've even had a player show me a screenshot of a "bug" which was obviously caused when they hacked the game. So obviously you can do that, but at your own risk--just know that hacking certain things could very well crash the game or destroy data. Internally the game makes a lot of assumptions about certain states and values, and when unexpected values are encountered, naturally you might get unexpected results!
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