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[Decker]

I attempted to determine what makes the deadliest glass cannon combat build. I started as a stealth build, got myself 5 advanced hacking suites and a system shield, and got to work. I didn't manage to fab as much as I wanted, but I still got the gist of it. The fundamental of the build is two heavy flak cannons, plus a lot of target analyzers to pump up the crit rate, and some targetting computers to hit more. The flaks deliver 6 projectiles each, and the target analyzers bring the crit rate north of 50%. The odds of one of the 12 projectiles critting the core are high.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

While it's not a sustainable build (you can't replace the flaks), it works rather well against normal robots. It fails completely against behemoths and special robots. I got stripped against Alpha 8, even though I had the last word. When Kyzrati says Behemoths and co are immune to crits, he means it. It wouldn't be so bad if only the core was immune to crits, but all their equipment is too.

I noticed experimentally that weapon cyclers perform even better than you'd think. Whether you pick the advanced version or the experimental version does not matter. You hit the 50% cap anyway. Rather amazingly, a second cycler has increasing returns. The firepower increases are respectively 33% and 100%. In practice it works even better because you can get 2 volleys out by the time the enemy gets one.

I'll try pumping core analyzers next. If you get >50% proccing odds, it should work pretty well against all enemies combined with big guns and weapon cyclers.

[Decker]

Forgot to add, the big problem with that kind of build is that it's unbearable to play. Every time you shoot, you have to deactivate/reactivate 6 propulsions and 10 utilities.

[Kyzrati]

Forgot to add, the big problem with that kind of build is that it's unbearable to play. Every time you shoot, you have to deactivate/reactivate 6 propulsions and 10 utilities.

Propulsion is pretty easy with the toggle key. As for the utility side, there are significant changes you will appreciate in Alpha 12.

Also, I just buffed all Flak weapons yesterday--damage is going up, matter use is coming down a bit. (So that would've been even more effective, but yeah, still not going to be good against hardened targets.)

[rumpel]

So I just enjoyed a nice round. I still don't really know a lot and mostly just shoot around (hell, I had super fun with 3 EMP blasters, lol) but got pretty far compared to my other games. I died pretty unexpected: I hacked a terminal and didn't pay attention - I got detected and they dispatched a squad that TOTALLY cornered an destroyed me. I felt pretty unkillable before. :x

Lots of fun!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cogmind - Alpha 11

Name: rumpel

---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---

 Performance
-------------
Evolutions (2)             1000
Robots Destroyed (145)     725
Value Destroyed (5119)     5119
Prototype IDs (10)         200
Alien Tech Recovered (0)   0
Bonus (0)                  0
              TOTAL SCORE: 7044

 Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             0/550
Matter                     186/300
Energy                     319/320
System Corruption          6%
Temperature                Hot (221)
Location                   -8/Storage

 Parts
-------
Power (2)
  F-Cell Engine
Propulsion (3)
  (None)
Utility (3)
  (None)
Weapon (3)
  (None)
Inventory (4)
  F-Cell Engine

 Peak State
------------
Power
  F-Cell Engine
  F-Cell Engine
Propulsion
  Aluminum Leg
  Carbon-fiber Leg
  Carbon-fiber Leg
Utility
  Improved Heat Sink
  Improved Heat Sink
  Remote Shield Generator
Weapon
  Improved Assault Rifle
  Enhanced Autogun
  Enhanced Autogun
Inventory
  F-Cell Engine
  Particle Gun
  Heavy Laser
[Rating: 42]

 Favorites
-----------
Power                      Deuterium Engine
  Engine                   Deuterium Engine
  Power Core               Light Nuclear Core
Propulsion                 Flight Unit
  Treads                   Light Treads
  Wheel                    Wheel
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Hover Unit               Hover Unit
  Flight Unit              Flight Unit
Utility                    Visual Processing Unit
  Device                   Improved Heat Sink
  Storage                  Medium Matter Storage Unit
  Processor                Visual Processing Unit
  Protection               Improved Power Shielding
Weapon                     Assault Cannon
  Energy Gun               EM Pulse Gun
  Energy Cannon            Advanced Beam Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Heavy Assault Rifle
  Ballistic Cannon         Assault Cannon
  Launcher                 Advanced EMP Blaster
  Impact Weapon            Shock Maul

 Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown            0
Classes Destroyed          14
  Worker                   11
  Builder                  9
  Tunneler                 2
  Hauler                   4
  Recycler                 4
  Operator                 3
  Watcher                  10
  Swarmer                  15
  Grunt                    60
  Brawler                  2
  Duelist                  3
  Protector                1
  Sentry                   19
  Hunter                   2
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           13
  Combat Bots Only         8
Matter Collected           2532
  Salvage Created          5013
Parts Attached             110
  Power                    21
  Propulsion               26
  Utility                  24
  Weapon                   39
Parts Lost                 53
  Power                    6
  Propulsion               14
  Utility                  11
  Weapon                   22
Average Slot Usage (%)     90
  Naked Turns              3
Spaces Moved               2625
  Fastest Speed (%)        200
  Average Speed (%)        79
  Slowest Speed (%)        34
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           1
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
Heaviest Build             44
  Greatest Support         65
  Greatest Overweight (x)  11
  Average Overweight (x)   1
Largest Inventory          4
  Average Capacity         4
  Most Items Carried       4
  Average Items Carried    2
  Final Capacity           8
  Final Carried            2
Core Damage Taken          908
Average Core Remaining (%) 63
  Depth 11 Exit            100
  Depth 10 Exit            35
  Depth 9 Exit             54
Volleys Fired              270
  Largest                  3
  Hottest                  168
Shots Fired                625
  Gun                      365
  Cannon                   179
  Launcher                 81
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  317
  Thermal                  177
  Explosive                24
  Electromagnetic          107
Shots Hit Robots           291
  Core Hits                233
Critical Hits              14
  Kills                    6
  Parts Destroyed          8
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              6
  Impact                   6
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           10306
  Projectiles              5442
  Explosions               4702
  Melee                    162
  Ramming                  0
  Kinetic                  3179
  Thermal                  2102
  Explosive                1716
  Electromagnetic          3147
  Impact                   162
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Self-Inflicted Damage      712
  Shots                    29
  Rammed                   1
Highest Temperature        390
  Average Temperature      69
  Shutdowns                1
  Energy Bleed             0
  Interference             0
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            1
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         6
  Average Corruption       5
  Message Errors           3
  Parts Rejected           0
  Data loss (map)          11
  Data loss (database)     3
  Misfires                 0
  Misdirections            1
  Targeting Errors         11
  Weapon Failures          1
Haulers Intercepted        4
Robots Corrupted           3
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      13
Tactical Retreats          7
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             0
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            5
  Indirectly               2
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   220
Machines Disabled          24
Data Cores Recovered       1
  Used                     0
Machines Hacked            13
  Terminals                11
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          1
  Recycling Units          1
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Total Hacks                38
  Successful               23
  Failed                   15
  Catastrophic             1
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   0
  Unauthorized             0
  Terminals                30
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          4
  Recycling Units          4
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Terminal Hacks             17
  Record                   7
  Open Door                1
  Alert Level              3
  Unreport Threat          1
  Dispatch Records         1
  Hauler Manifests         1
  Machine Controls         3
Hacking Detections         10
  Full Trace Events        3
  Feedback Events          0
  Feedback Corruption      0
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Trojans Installed          0
  Terminals                0
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Fabricators Overloaded     0
Garrisons Disabled         2
Garrisons Compromised      0
Fab Network Shutdowns      0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   0
  Parts Built              0
  Total Part Build Rating  0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             1
  Part Repair Time         26
Parts Recycled             1
  Recycled Matter          68
  Retrieved Matter         0
  Retrieved Components     0
Parts Scanalyzed           0
  Part Schematics Acquired 0
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               0
  Largest Group            0
  Highest-Rated Group      0
  Highest-Rated Ally       0
Total Orders               0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           0
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             1508
  Average Influence        472
  Final Influence          1448
Maximum Alert Level        4
  Low Security (%)         24
  Level 1                  37
  Level 2                  19
  Level 3                  3
  Level 4                  15
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          19
  Investigation            4
  Extermination            0
  Reinforcement            10
  Assault                  3
  Garrison                 2
  Intercept                0
Derelict Logs Recovered    0
Exploration Rate (%)       44
  Regions Visited          6
  Pre-discovered Areas     0
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Network Hubs Disabled      0
Actions Taken              3265
Turns Passed               4695
  Depth 11                 63
  Depth 10                 811
  Depth 9                  1210
  Depth 8                  2611
  Scrapyard                63
  Materials                2941
  Mines                    456
  Storage                  1235

 Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Ion Engine
F-Cell Engine
Improved VTOL Module
Advanced Beam Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Enhanced Autogun
Advanced EMP Blaster
Shock Maul

 Fabricated
------------
Nothing

 Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

 Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials
-9/Materials (discovered 2 exits: *Mat / [*Min])
-9/Mines
-8/Materials (discovered 2 exits: [*Fac] / *Sto)
-8/Storage (discovered 1 exit: [*Fac])

 Game
------
Seed: 1478907378
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 76 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 1
Lore%: 2
Gallery%: 7
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 0
Movement: Mouse
Fullscreen: 0
Font: 14/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
FOV Handling: Fade In


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487

[Kyzrati]

Whoa, 7k score on only 2 evolutions? That's impressive!

3 EMP Blasters is certainly one way to totally dominate the early game

[Happylisk]

Had a silly run where I managed to get to Testing again.  Even after finding a few cool toys I still got torn to shreds in there.

With the acknowledgment that I am not the world's best gamer and that combat mode is hard mode in Cogmind, I think the branch difficulties in cogmind need tweaking.  Unless you have a perfect build, you are going to come out of any caves run in much worse shape than when you came in as a combat build.  Extension and from what I'm so far seen Testing are likewise brutal.  I understand that branches are supposed to be a high risk/reward scenarios, but the risks are really, really high and the rewards for the mid-game branches are not exactly breathtaking.  Every time I limp out of Zion, DM, or Zhirov with a combat build I always think to myself "well that wasn't worth it."  (Warlord has a great reward but getting out of that branch alive with a slow moving combat build is a feat unto itself).  I'm sure that's not the feeling you're shooting for. 

I've done branch runs with stealth builds the few times I've played stealth and it's of course infinitely easier.  But for players like me who have a strong preference for combat builds, visiting large swathes of the game feels like a suboptimal decision. 

Even if you think this a legitimate point, I'm not sure what the solution is.  Decreasing the branch difficulty or increasing the rewards helps stealth/hacker runs who need no help.  Further buffs to combat builds will make non-branch combat runs too easy (they're in a good place as is). 

One possibility is adding things to the Caves that would only be of use to a combat build, such as the occasional cache of heavy armor/weaponry/treads.  Not of much use to a stealth build, a godsend to a beat up combat cog.   Another possibility is adding the chance for a fabricator with a finite number of matter in Zion.  It would make runs where DM was on -7 and Zion with a fabricator on -6 very, very satisfying.   

[Kyzrati]

I think you'll find Alphas 12-14 will be somewhat different in that regard. We're only now moving into balance territory, and part of the issue is you were gone for a number of Alphas during which the game kept getting easier, but then suddenly it got more deadly in 11 when I went a tiny bit overboard clamping down on farming

Each type of branch still has some tweaking to go: Caves/Mines will be getting more content (they're technically still incomplete) and MAIN.C-controlled branches will be getting a little easier, because their primary difficulty for combat runs stems from the recent alert level changes that are going to be scaled back.

(That said, I don't find caves to be difficult as is, and I only run combat. But I also tend to stay away from danger as best possible, and use other cave-appropriate tactics like always fighting up in robots' faces and grabbing stuff as soon as one goes down if my inventory isn't already full!)

[zxc]

Can slow down / reduce self-destruction of items in the caves, which would mainly help combat builds.

[Happylisk]

I like that suggestion.  Item destruction can be mitigated by EM weapons or adjacent combat.  Sometimes neither is an option. 

E: you can also make how long it takes an item to go poof depend on integrity.  Processors and devices go poof the quickest.  Then things like legs and guns.  Cannons, armor, and treads could take the longest to self-destruct. 

[Kyzrati]

It'll be considered if necessary--I like how the idea works mostly to help combat but not flight. Might be premature at this point due to planned updates to cave content, and Cogmind is already going to get more powerful again in Alpha 12.