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[Gaspard]

So I love making games, and Cogmind gave me a lot of ideas that could be added.
I'm going to dump them all here!
The numbers proposed are really bad guesses... they could all be tweaked of course.

First up: placeables:
Placeables would be non-equipable parts, which would have an effect when dropped on the ground, to differentiate them from normal parts, they could have a background glow or a distinct colour.

1) tracks:
They are heavy to carry.
If you rolling or treading, you would go 2 times faster when moving from track to track.
However, going from track to normal ground and the opposite would be 2 times slower.


What would this add? More tactical fighting/fleeing.
Crossing tracks could be a great way to flee from treading/rolling enemies(if you aren't rolling or treading), at the same time, they could also give your opponents a great advantage when going down corridors: wheeled robots could go pretty fast! (37?) you can use that to your advantage too: treading around would not be that slow anymore, except when you leave the tracks to get an item access a terminal etc. because getting off and on would cost a lot of time.
Crossing robots on the tracks would also be time costly+if a track were to be removed, it would cost time to cross the gap, making it easy to sabotage the routes.

2) Ventilators.
If you are flying or hovering, ventilators give a 2x speed boost. But when moving from a ventilators , you would have a 60%(?) chance to be misdirected, minus n%(?) with n the time you've been on ventilators(not counting the time it took to get on it) ventilator you cross, with a minimum of 0% of course.
That way waiting a turn makes going over a series of ventilators without danger.
Ventilators would also cool down units above them. They would very effective on crawling robots (-30 heat?) and  otherwise less(-10 heat?).
They would be generated close to machines.
This would make them a great place to stand when fighting with weapons and utilities generating a lot of heat, unless the machine is explosive...
Flying/hovering units could take a risk trying to cross them in exchange for speed and cooling, but because of the misdirection, they may be slowed down at first by going in the wrong direction(or waiting a turn), which would make them great to increase you dodging chances, but not necessary great for fleeing.
You could also place some while fleeing to annoy those annoying pests... because crossing a single ventilator is:
50% chance of being misdirected, being misdirected means going the wrong way 50% of the time, unless you lined, in that case it's 75% chance and  more if you're next to a wall(if you hit the wall, you will stay on the same square)
50% chance to go 2 times faster.
i.e 0.4*0.5+0.6*(0.5*2+0.5*0.5) = 0.95 so a slight boost.
however if you are lined up:
i.e 0.5*0.5+0.5*(0.75*2+0.25*0.5) = 1.175 so a slight loss. Plus eventual damage when next to a wall or ally, in which case it's all worse.

3) Power-plates
Any robot above them receives energy, but also some heat. They are most effective on crawling units(+30 energy?,+5 heat), pretty good on walking treading units(+30 energy,+10 heat?), and don't heat flying units(+5 energy, no heat).
They would probably generated in little 3x3 squares, in corridors or in rooms.
These would usually be occupied by enemy robot troops to fill up their energy before patrolling again.
Could be very interesting to have enemy bots who aren't self sustainable when it comes to energy, which would return to power-plates.(I'm thinking especially of those defenders hanging out in a room corner...)
So getting to them wouldn't be easy, but they would be very useful to load up batteries... and also would diversify builds I think.

All these would be taken care of by a certain bot, who would remove tracks/ventilators/Power-plates someone placed outside of the planned routes and places  and place tracks/ventilators/Power-plates where they are missing. There could be a "tracks/ventilators/Power-plates machine" which would create/store/destroy tracks/ventilators/Power-plates depending on the needs. Maybe newly build rooms could also sometime be "decorated" by them.

These placeables would reinforce stand and fight builds and make fleeing far more interesting.(Or fleeing to the right place to fight!)
I also think they would increase tactical depth, and planning.

I got a few part ideas too, but I haven't finished the game yet, so they may exist already.

1) Specialised targeting computers:
Core-targeting computer, Engine-targeting computer, Utility-targeting computer etc.
They increase the chance that shots that hit hit the specific parts.
They would have to be balanced carefully so as to not enable anything over-powered(Instant Core Kills!) but could potentially create interesting tactics.

2)Specialised targeting enchancer:
Increases damage against specific part-types or core.
Would be interesting with the above.

3)Knock-off bat:
Melee weapon with no damage, instead tries to detach a part with a 50% chance.
Combined with Specialised targeting computers it may make some interesting stuff.
I think for ranged weapons it would be to OP.

4)Explosion attaching weapons.
Would attach explosives on target that detonate after some time... or when caught in an explosion!
Could be melee or ranged, although melee would be hard to use...

5)Disguise utility.
Prepare for jump-scares!
Upon activation, makes robot look like wall, visual range reduced to 3.
Deactivates all other parts which have upkeep costs when activated, excluding storage parts.
Reactivating any other part deactivates it. Receiving damage disables it for 300 time, allowing opponents to see you.
Only way to detect disguised robots would be structural scanners.
Just imagine enemies surprising you, or you remaining unseen by a patrol, until an excavator tries to excavate you.
Would have to be used in conjunction with mining stuff to be really effective.

I have some more ideas, may post them later.
What do you think?

[Kyzrati]

Hi Gaspard, and thanks for your input.

(I'm not ignoring any posts, by the way--on some topics I sometimes wait a little while to see if anyone else has an input before giving my own, though in this case apparently not, or perhaps they know my opinions on some of these already )

First up: placeables:
Placeables would be non-equipable parts, which would have an effect when dropped on the ground, to differentiate them from normal parts, they could have a background glow or a distinct colour.

So these fall under the terrain features category that several players so far have been asking for. I'm reluctant to add too many different types of features since the overall design is intended to simplify the map such that everything that isn't a machine is either a robot or part.

That said, I do want to add Traps, some of the effects of which could either directly or indirectly cause the effects you mention. It's nice to fold as many possibly effects into a fewer unique features, and Traps have the potential to be very interesting and varied. I was recently thinking about their design, and even adding a single category of new object types that can appear on the map becomes problematic when considering how to display them all without interfering with representations of existing objects. For example, even at its most complex, the current map view never lets objects overlap. The more categories of objects we add, the tougher it will be to enforce that rule, though it's a rule I intend to keep. That puts a limit on the number of things we can do on the map.

1) Specialised targeting computers:
Core-targeting computer, Engine-targeting computer, Utility-targeting computer etc.
They increase the chance that shots that hit hit the specific parts.
They would have to be balanced carefully so as to not enable anything over-powered(Instant Core Kills!) but could potentially create interesting tactics.

These were suggested during the prototype phase, though never added because they would likely be overpowered (intentionally destroy a combat robot's weapons OR core to take it out of the fight), or pointless since as a player I'd rather just intentionally take out a core, and this already exists:

Core-targeting computer

2)Specialised targeting enchancer:
Increases damage against specific part-types or core.
Would be interesting with the above.

But would they be at all interesting or useful without the above? Not really, except against cores, though that could potentially be abused, or at least the modifier would have to be rather small.

3)Knock-off bat:
Melee weapon with no damage, instead tries to detach a part with a 50% chance.
Combined with Specialised targeting computers it may make some interesting stuff.
I think for ranged weapons it would be to OP.

All slashing weapons do this already.

4)Explosion attaching weapons.
Would attach explosives on target that detonate after some time... or when caught in an explosion!
Could be melee or ranged, although melee would be hard to use...

Hm, the timed version might be doable (though then players will want for manually detonated remote explosives, which I'd definitely not do in light of UI complexity concerns). What uses might it have? Without manual control I don't see this as an incredibly useful ability. Stick a passive robot shortly before it's going to walk by its friends... but in that case just use normal explosives directly, or fire around a corner using guided weapons. Better control.

5)Disguise utility.

This opens too many cans of worms I think, at least on the player side. There is a chance that a future enemy will have this ability, however, and I wholly agree this would be a lot of fun. It's been in the plans, but would be a pretty big feature so it's on the back burner right now--need to eventually assess whether it's worth the implementation difficulty.

[Gaspard]

Time too defend my ideas!

I knew that the ideas of traps was already out there(read the devlog ), the problem with traps is that they only help for fleeing, which is why I was proposing stuff that would also be useful to stand your ground or make it harder to flee. Corridors usually are usually pretty empty for me, so tracks in corridors shouldn't be that bad... the other 2 though are indeed probably not a good idea(or should be pretty rare and scattered, which defeats the point of ventilators).

These were suggested during the prototype phase, though never added because they would likely be overpowered (intentionally destroy a combat robot's weapons OR core to take it out of the fight), or pointless since as a player I'd rather just intentionally take out a core, and this already exists:

What if a specialised targeting computers weren't all equal?
I would imagine something like:
utility>power>propulsion>weapons>core
(> means "more effective than")
That way you get to choose between going for the vital parts or having a more predictable outcome.(if you hit at all)
If hitting utilities was guaranteed, it could be a great way to cause mischief: some robots have heat sinks, without them they are far less effective(and easier to hit because of heat), removing the storage units off of those annoying scavengers wouldn't be to bad either...
Hitting power or propulsion also clearly annoys most flying/hovering robots (pests come to mind), don't know how effective it would be against other robots, although it's clear without a power source you can't fire as much weapons.

As for Specialised targeting enhancer even without the above they could be interesting, again by following the same ranking:
utility>power>propulsion>weapons>core
Suppose you fire a volley against a robot possessing armour plating, and the boost given by this utility was good enough too guarantee that the armour plating would only stop one shot before being destroyed? I'd take that deal... If I don't hit it, whatever! It means it hasn't absorbed a shot, and I hit more important stuff.
Another situation: the robot is treading... the treads are likely going to get hit, if they don't, better for me!

Also if I remember right, some weapons shoot many projectiles at once, so it my be possible to have many hits of little damage making the above an interesting "which parts will suffer most damage" utility, or a slight boost just enough to take out important weak parts(flying units).

All slashing weapons do this already.

Interesting, I didn't know that...

Hm, the timed version might be doable (though then players will want for manually detonated remote explosives, which I'd definitely not do in light of UI complexity concerns). What uses might it have? Without manual control I don't see this as an incredibly useful ability. Stick a passive robot shortly before it's going to walk by its friends... but in that case just use normal explosives directly, or fire around a corner using guided weapons. Better control.

Make that something more powerful than normal exploding shots, if it is a real threat, it could be used to force enemies to separate.

Could also be maybe implemented as a timed bomb when shot on a wall?(That may be easier to implement than traps, and doesn't take a till on the floor)
Making it explode when touched by an explosion could make some cool chain reactions.
You could also do that if an someone has 2 of them, they detonate right away, that way you could plant some on every enemy and then trigger it on one enemy for a huge chain reaction.
It could also maybe be triggered be upon death(of the carrier)?

A long(infinite might be fun) delay version could be set on an ally as you send him to sure death, KAMIKAZE!

I can also imagine versions with different triggering events, like when the carrier fires, or moves?

Their could also be disappearing versions. They may be the most tactical(for the carrier) like should I move and take huge damage and remove all shelter from around me do to the explosion, or just wait a turn and fire instead. letting the enemies get closer?

Also this is essentially predictable damage, so maybe if you know that an explosion will be on you in 2 turns, you should rush to your opponent(s), or equip proper shielding, or put some essential parts into your inventory so as to not loose then?


In summary I propose these weapons have:
-higher accuracy,damage or area of effect than normal weapons to make them worth the effort.

I'll list the 5 I find are interesting, they would all explode when hit by an explosion:
-indefinitely attached, explodes on damage.(least interesting I think.)
-explodes on movement, removed after some time.
-explodes upon firing, removed after some time.
-explodes upon firing or moving, removed after some time.
-explodes after a delay, or upon death.

Annnnnd sorry for the huge rant.

[Kyzrati]

I knew that the ideas of traps was already out there(read the devlog ), the problem with traps is that they only help for fleeing, which is why I was proposing stuff that would also be useful to stand your ground or make it harder to flee.

A creative Cogmind will be able to use Traps for all kinds of purposes, including even offensively. I've only mentioned them in passing on the blog so far, no details because they're still in the planning phase. Probably Alpha 3, and I'll do a big post explaining the logic behind their design and potentially wide applications.

What if a specialised targeting computers weren't all equal?

With Cogmind parts, the other consideration is that every part, even disparate subtypes, must all be balanced based on slot count (usually 1). Occupying a slot is very significant, as it means you can't put anything else in that slot, so even unrelated parts must be generally interchangeable in terms of usefulness and capabilities.

To balance them properly to avoid making them overpowered these utilities would end up either overpowered or underpowered. There is a danger of cluttering up the available random item pool with things players won't use.

I also think robots are generally too weak to worry about intentionally causing supplementary damage when all you really want to do is hit the core and be done with them. A majority of robots die to only 1-2 cannon hits on their core, and you can carry 2 cannons from the very beginning of the game. The focus should be on 1) hitting targets and 2) if possible, hit their core, the latter of which already has an associated utility.

Stripping a robot takes longer, during which you're taking damage yourself and also expending greater resource to effectively reduce the amount of salvage you'll collect (the more collateral damage you do to a robot, the less salvage there is left when it goes down).

I can see how it could enable some additional tactics, but I don't think they're necessarily worth the overall effect on the game of adding these items.

(Side note: There are some parts right now that I'm aware a few people probably think are useless (anything in particular Arseface?). However, know that some parts may be getting extra powers later to bring them in line with others, and some are later required in combination with other parts you haven't seen yet.)

Hitting power or propulsion also clearly annoys most flying/hovering robots (pests come to mind)

But Pests only take a single shot from almost any weapon to destroy completely! In the end, a balanced anti-propulsion targeting system would have to have a pretty significant hit% boost, and then you meet 4 Pests, spend your turns shooting out their propulsion all the while they're shooting you to pieces because they're still armed. I'd much rather have a standard targeting module and just kill them outright.

don't know how effective it would be against other robots, although it's clear without a power source you can't fire as much weapons.

Somewhat less effective, since many robot cores have built-in generators like you do, in addition to their attached power source.

I can also imagine versions with different triggering events, like when the carrier fires

Wait a minute, are we playing the same game? Carriers are unarmed

Also this is essentially predictable damage, so maybe if you know that an explosion will be on you in 2 turns, you should rush to your opponent(s), or equip proper shielding, or put some essential parts into your inventory so as to not loose then?

I think Traps will provide you with a lot of the same tactical options you describe here and elsewhere, if you're prepared.

[Gaspard]

Sorry for the confusion,
with "carrier" I didn't mean the bot in the game but the robot "carrying" the bomb!

Funny how since Pests are hard to hit I get the feeling they are tanky...

Now I'm hyped for traps in Alpha 3, but that may be far away 

[Kyzrati]

Sorry for the confusion,
with "carrier" I didn't mean the bot in the game but the robot "carrying" the bomb!

Oh, whoops, my bad. I guess that's one reason I like to always capitalize the names of robots, items, etc. from the game because some have generic names and then it's easier to differentiate, but I didn't see you capitalizing any so I was thinking of the robot in this case

Funny how since Pests are hard to hit I get the feeling they are tanky...

They only have 8 points of core integrity, they're just not so easy to hit, yeah

Now I'm hyped for traps in Alpha 3, but that may be far away 

I won't be pre-announcing any definite release dates, but I'd guess Alpha 3 will come in August. Basically my aim is to generally have one major release per month from here on out, sometimes adjusted slightly longer or shorter based on the types of content being added.

I think you'll be pleased at the new tactical options provided by Traps, and I'll take into account both yours and others' comments on making the environment more interesting when designing them. I've been thinking about them in the background these past few days, since the in-progress Alpha 2 is mostly boring/easy programming stuff rather than design.

[Reiver]

Funny how since Pests are hard to hit I get the feeling they are tanky...

They only have 8 points of core integrity, they're just not so easy to hit, yeah

For what it's worth, I was mildly disappointed to discover that the shotguns prove so poor at hitting them. I'd been gleefully envisioning sheet shoots.

[Kyzrati]

Haha, skeet shoots, that does sound amusing!

Shotguns don't use spread mechanics, but Flak Guns/Cannons (the shotgun's big brother) on the other hand... a number of those can bring down little fliers without much trouble.

Hm, come to think of it Shotguns possibly should use spread mechanics. As is they have a medium range, negative targeting modifier, and effectively do good concentrated damage more akin to a cannon, firing it as a single slug. This makes them terrible at taking out Pests compared to other ballistic weapons, which seems somewhat counter-intuitive.

Making the two Shotguns deal spread damage would probably rob a lot of players of their favorite weapons. Hpw. Shotguns are somewhat OP at the moment... (well, they have really high recoil as a drawback, but that can be overcome).

[Reiver]

So you're saying that your shotguns do not, in fact, fire shot? 

(A solid slugthrower could make a good use for, say, Heavy Rifles, though. Or, hell, 'slugthrower'. :p)

You've not wanted to go the path of dual-mode equipment & weapons, correct? Switching between Burst and Spread would be pretty awesome... if an extra click on the menus. Not sure if it's worth it.

[Kyzrati]

Well, technically we already have multiple modes for some weapons (you've just started so may not have found them yet?): OVERLOAD mode for certain thermal guns. So theoretically additional modes could be created for other types.

I think that given the UI scheme, having too many weapons with multiple modes could get annoying due to cycling when you just want to activate or deactivate something. It's an interesting thought, though, potentially for some rarer special weapon.

[Reiver]

Prototype shotguns! Obviously.
And yeah, I was thinking along the lines of OVERLOAD. It would be best to avoid having both on the same gun, of course.

[Kyzrati]

If I ever did anything like that, it would definitely be limited to one alternate mode per gun. I may use this idea for a future special weapon, but nothing as "common" as the prototypes you see--there are even rarer weapons you can't find yet .

[Reiver]

Quick query: Would a burst weapon still do extra damage at close range to 'bigger' robots? Shotguns are infamous not only for their ability to hit annoying little targets at moderate range, but for their stopping power at point blank.

I was a little... surprised... when I gleefully switched in shotguns one messy corridor fight, and it all went horribly wrong.

[Kyzrati]

Right now shotguns are still pretty much one of the best gun types in the early/mid-game. They're great at close range in corridors, just not against fliers. The big drawback of shotguns is their recoil, which you have to compensate for especially if you have too many of them.

There is no range-based damage, only an indirect approximation of that mechanic in that a spread weapon with a lower hit chance will end up still randomly hitting targets within a cone in front of you. So yeah with more individual projectiles hitting they'll at least not do less damage, but there are no damage bonuses, per se.

My thoughts on the Shotguns are now to reduce their max range a bit more, lower their hit chance a bit, and split them into two simultaneous projectiles that do a bit more than half their current damage, meaning total damage will be even higher, and they'll work much better against swarms of hostiles (especially fliers), and still be effective against other targets, but not quite as much because the multi-projectile spread means you'll likely be hitting multiple different components instead of destroying a single component.

Another interesting idea would be knockback, but then by logic I'd have to add that to many of the ballistic cannons as well. Right now knockback only comes from ramming or impact melee weapons.