Victory - today, my treading, no-holds-barred combat Cogmind has reached the surface! It was an agonizing ascent - my carefully cultivated loadout and hacking-suppressed alert level saw me all the way through the Factory, but it all started to fall apart in Research. There weren't enough terminals to keep my threat down, and with no armor plates to be found anywhere, I piled more and more combat utilities into my utility slots, badly overtaxing my neglected power slots. Without armor, more and more fire fell upon my vulnerable utilities and weapons.
Finally, after accumulating around 30% corruption fighting through sublevel 2, I was forced to ditch everything and run. I ran blindly in the direction I had seen Programmers arrive from, guessing at corner after corner. Fate smiled upon me: after a few minutes scrambling for survival, I found the access to sublevel 1! I looked at my inventory: three reactors and a kinetic weapon. I hadn't expected to actually make it this far. I quickly looted an energy weapon from an adjoining room, took a deep breath, and entered sublevel 1 buck naked.
On sublevel 1, I rebuilt what I could. I found a set of treads and fought off a few Programmers, looted what I could, and kept fighting. When a Sentry and several Programmers found me together, once again I had to drop everything and run. I found more weapons, turned to fight, and won. Slowly, I began to reconstitute: heat sinks, targeting computers, target analyzers, a force field, heavy armor, heavy treads... and weapons. Oh my, the
weapons on sublevel 1!
By the time I found the exit, I was the absolute ruler of sublevel 1. My 30-part-strong inventory was filled to the brim with the machinery of war. The robots I encountered didn't even merit the unveiling of my various launchers, which I didn't need to fire the entire level. I brushed aside the guardians of the exit with ease and made my ascent.
My Cogmind, triumphant on the surface, firing his shiny, mint-condition launchers in victory:
Spoiler
(https://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/l/165256-chromehounds-xbox-360-front-cover.jpg)
Thanks for the amazing experience, Kyzrati!
EDIT: here's the score sheet for people interested
Cogmind - Alpha 3b
Name: Adraius
---[ ESCAPED! ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9) 4500
Robots Destroyed (333) 1665
Value Destroyed (13894) 13894
Prototype IDs (15) 300
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (2000) 2000
TOTAL SCORE: 22359
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 1038/1600
Matter 300/300
Energy 1040/1040
System Corruption 0%
Temperature Cool (0)
Location Surface
Parts
-------
Power (4)
Quantum Reactor
Quantum Reactor
Particle Reactor
Improved Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (2)
Improved Heavy Treads
Utility (14)
Advanced Cooling System
Large Storage Unit
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Cooling System
Advanced Force Field
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Targeting Computer
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Targeting Computer
High-capacity Storage Unit
Advanced Targeting Computer
Advanced Target Analyzer
Weapon (5)
Multirail
Multirail
HERF Cannon
Enhanced Quantum Rifle
Compact HERF Cannon
Inventory
-----------
Quantum Reactor
Quantum Reactor
Improved Quantum Reactor
Improved Heavy Treads
Improved Heavy Treads
Gamma Rifle
Gamma Rifle
Enhanced Nova Cannon
Railgun
Multirail
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Cooling System
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Reactive Heavy Armor
Reflective Heavy Armor
Advanced Hacking Suite
System Restoration Module
System Restoration Module
Multirail
Multirail
Peak State
------------
Power
Improved Quantum Reactor
Particle Reactor
Quantum Reactor
Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
Advanced Target Analyzer
Advanced Targeting Computer
High-capacity Storage Unit
Advanced Targeting Computer
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Targeting Computer
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Force Field
Advanced Cooling System
Large Storage Unit
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Cooling System
Weapon
Compact HERF Cannon
Enhanced Quantum Rifle
HERF Cannon
Multirail
Multirail
[Rating: 156]
Favorites
-----------
Power Improved Ion Engine
Engine Improved Ion Engine
Power Core Micro Fission Core
Reactor Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion Light Treads
Treads Light Treads
Hover Unit Improved Anti-Grav System
Utility Large Storage Unit
Device Advanced Heat Sink
Storage Large Storage Unit
Processor Advanced Targeting Computer
Hackware Hacking Suite
Protection Layered Light Armor Plating
Weapon Railgun
Energy Gun Gamma Rifle
Energy Cannon Heavy Ion Cannon
Ballistic Gun Railgun
Ballistic Cannon Fusion Cannon
Launcher Grenade Launcher
Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 16
Worker 25
Builder 21
Tunneler 3
Hauler 28
Recycler 30
Operator 1
Watcher 6
Swarmer 34
Grunt 91
Brawler 5
Duelist 5
Protector 1
Sentry 30
Hunter 27
Programmer 24
Behemoth 2
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 11
Combat Bots Only 8
Matter Collected 10206
Salvage Created 19780
Parts Attached 470
Power 60
Propulsion 34
Utility 228
Weapon 148
Parts Lost 124
Power 11
Propulsion 5
Utility 51
Weapon 57
Average Slot Usage (%) 90
Naked Turns 99
Spaces Moved 6582
Fastest Speed (%) 200
Slowest Speed (%) 5
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 4
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 196
Greatest Overweight (x) 65
Average Overweight (x) 2
Largest Inventory 32
Most Items Carried 32
Core Damage Taken 2817
Volleys Fired 700
Largest 5
Hottest 412
Shots Fired 2392
Gun 1675
Cannon 682
Launcher 35
Special 0
Kinetic 1045
Thermal 829
Explosive 25
Electromagnetic 493
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 0
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 42337
Projectiles 39351
Explosions 2973
Melee 0
Ramming 13
Highest Temperature 342
Average Temperature 72
Shutdowns 0
Energy Bleed 1
Interference 3
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 1
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 30
Message Errors 70
Parts Rejected 14
Data loss (map) 69
Data loss (database) 41
Misfires 12
Misdirections 24
Targeting Errors 72
Weapon Failures 19
Haulers Intercepted 28
Robots Corrupted 12
Robots Melted 29
Tactical Retreats 27
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 10
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 30
Terminals 22
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 4
Recycling Units 2
Scanalyzers 2
Machines Hacked 30
Terminals 22
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 4
Recycling Units 2
Scanalyzers 2
Total Hacks 109
Successful 37
Failed 72
Catastrophic 33
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 28
Terminals 79
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 16
Recycling Units 7
Scanalyzers 7
Terminal Hacks 20
Record 0
Part Schematic 0
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 0
Open Door 1
Level Access Points 1
Branch Access Points 0
Emergency Access Points 2
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Alert Level 1
Unreport Threat 10
Locate Traps 0
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Trap 0
Dispatch Records 1
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 2
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 2
Hacking Detections 38
Full Trace Events 13
Feedback Events 2
Feedback Corruption 2
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 1
Parts Built 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 5
Part Repair Time 150
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 2
Part Schematics Acquired 1
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 1
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 22
Largest Group 4
Highest-Rated Group 44
Highest-Rated Ally 44
Total Orders 16
STAY 0
GOTO 4
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 12
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 9
Total Damage 297
Kills 1
Allies Corrupted 1
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 1032
Average Influence 265
Maximum Alert Level 3
Low Security (%) 54
Level 1 25
Level 2 10
Level 3 9
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 47
Investigation 11
Extermination 16
Reinforcement 15
Assault 5
Exploration Rate (%) 23
Regions Visited 12
Turns Passed 17920
Depth 11 92
Depth 10 1053
Depth 9 1501
Depth 8 1203
Depth 7 1532
Depth 6 1134
Depth 5 1705
Depth 4 1338
Depth 3 798
Depth 2 3498
Depth 1 4066
Scrapyard 92
Materials 2368
Factory 5709
Research 4296
Access 4066
Storage 1389
Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Quantum Reactor
Advanced Beam Rifle
Improved Heavy Laser
Improved EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Enhanced Coil Gun
Helical Railgun
Mini Assault Cannon
Precision Rocket Launcher
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Improved Matter Compressor
Beam Splitter
Experimental Core Analyzer
Advanced Particle Charger
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Game
------
Seed: 1441148486
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 422 min
Sessions: 12
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 34
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Font: 16/Dina
Map View: 90x50
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6196141286541596851218410EDIT2: an oddity I noticed - I definitely destroyed *at least* three Behemoths this run, and I'm 90% certain I killed five. Odd that it says I only killed two...
Woohoo, congratulations! Despite the couple times you had to go naked, comebacks are totally fair game when the going gets tough--modularity and adapting to the situation is what it's all about when you're Cogmind. And WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time. Thanks for sharing!
Haha, awesome box shot :P
The weapons are pretty deadly once you get that high, and those aren't even the best in the game :)
Quote from: Adraius on September 02, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
EDIT2: an oddity I noticed - I definitely destroyed *at least* three Behemoths this run, and I'm 90% I killed five. Odd that it says I only killed two...
My guess is you took them out via system corruption (?). Those kills aren't currently attributed to you, they just appear as part of the "Robots Corrupted" tally. Bringing robots down through other indirect means, such as traps or collateral damage from machine explosions, is also not added to your total.
Congratulations!!!!
I knew someone would do it eventually!
Quote from: Adraius on September 02, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Oh my, the weapons on sublevel 1!
This! This is my favourite aspect of the higher levels! I still haven't discovered them all, but I'm having fun trying :)
Congrats!
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMHaha, awesome box shot :P
Chromehounds was a great game with not enough polish. I dream of someday seeing a high-budget game bring 'realistic' modular combat robots into the limelight, but for now I can play Cogmind and pretend. =)
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMAnd WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time.
I've always ran my combat builds this way - unless you're aiming for a hybrid build from the start, I guess I don't see much point in the flexibility. The only time I'd transition away from being a brawler is when forced to, and I'd rather make that point harder to reach by investing more in utility slots than building flexible with propulsion. More than one tread doesn't really get you much in my - admittedly limited - experimentation; it makes it practical to seek cover when caught out in the open from a bit farther away, but the difference in distance covered isn't very significant, and you're still far slower than pretty much anything that matters. If you want more redundancy, that's what Storage Units are for.
I will say the boost to durability was a massive boost to the 'all treads, all the time' option, though. Before, I would be forced to use legs or other methods of propulsion intermittently, which took away the unique benefit of committing oneself to this sort of build. The straight
doubling of their durability was significantly more than expected, but boy am I grateful!
I'll also note that I was operating off of only two power slots until sublevel 1 - THAT was a terrible idea! It only worked as long as it did due to armor occupying utility slots that might go to energy-sucking combat utilities - I knew I'd made a mistake the moment I ran low on armor and began replacing it with more Targeting Computers and Target Analyzers, and I was afraid it would be a fatal mistake when I looked at the upkeep on 'advanced' combat utilities like Cloaking Devices and Particle Chargers - ouch!
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMThe weapons are pretty deadly once you get that high, and those aren't even the best in the game
0.o
And I thought I was on the top of the pile with my [9*] Enh. Nova Cannon and [10] Multirail! Would the 'Alien Tech Identified' score category have anything to do with this? =P
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMMy guess is you took them out via system corruption (?). Those kills aren't currently attributed to you, they just appear as part of the "Robots Corrupted" tally.
Huh, must have been. I do remember some of them falling apart rather suddenly/before their core got overly low. I bet that's why I kept getting huge piles of virtually pristine gear from them, too! Every time I looted one of them, I felt like an Ice Age human who'd just killed a woolly mammoth and would be feeding off the kill for months!
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMHaha, awesome box shot :P
Chromehounds was a great game with not enough polish. I dream of someday seeing a high-budget game bring 'realistic' modular combat robots into the limelight, but for now I can play Cogmind and pretend. =)
MWO isn't a bad alternative.
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
I will say the boost to durability was a massive boost to the 'all treads, all the time' option, though. Before, I would be forced to use legs or other methods of propulsion intermittently, which took away the unique benefit of committing oneself to this sort of build. The straight doubling of their durability was significantly more than expected, but boy am I grateful!
It was more than originally planned, too :P.
I was thinking +25%, then when it came time to implement I decided to go all out with it on the premise that if you're going to commit to being slow and fighting everything, you really can't be worrying too much about propulsion in the meantime, not to mention you have a 100% chance of triggering traps (though you're slow enough that you'll often see them first)--how did traps figure into your run?
For my own previous combat builds I've tended to add a couple extra propulsion slots and mostly rely on legs since they're easier to restore, and I sometimes prefer the flexibility of being a little faster. Legs also got a nice integrity boost in Alpha 3 as well, so I may still want to use them, we'll see. Apparently the 2x treads is valid as well.
Keeping only two power slots that late is certainly pretty dangerous. There are some really awesome power sources, but as you found some of the cool utilities drain power fast. I think with a lot of power sources and the right utilities you might even be able to make yourself deadly (and nearly invulnerable) even without relying on much armor.
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMThe weapons are pretty deadly once you get that high, and those aren't even the best in the game
0.o
And I thought I was on the top of the pile with my [9*] Enh. Nova Cannon and [10] Multirail! Would the 'Alien Tech Identified' score category have anything to do with this? =P
Alien tech is not yet available, but it will be ;)
There is a good collection of rating-10 (and *10!) parts in the game, but none are accessible, nor will they be found just lying around for the taking. You apparently took down a Colossus to get that Multirail--I believe it's the only highest-rated part you can actually obtain, and that's the only way to get it.
If you can power them and take the heat, Enh. Nova Cannons are a blast :D
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMI bet that's why I kept getting huge piles of virtually pristine gear from them, too! Every time I looted one of them, I felt like an Ice Age human who'd just killed a wholly mammoth and would be feeding off the kill for months!
Haha, exactly. That's what jimmijamjams did once when he reached -1. Corrupting robots is a great way to take their gear; corrupting Behemoths is a great way to treat yourself to a one-stop shopping spree. I started trying that on my last full run when I had the chance. Good tactic, and probably even better now.
Nicely done ;D
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMAnd WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time.
Bit of theory-crafting: if you're going the route of combat and heavy propulsion (treads), then you can skimp on extra propulsion slots to unlock more utilities and other slots. This I think is one of the most attractive aspects of running a combat build. With flight or hover, you want at least three propulsion slots, and often more.
What a win! It gives me hope that I'll win a combat cogmind in the not too distant future.
I wonder if Behemoth looting via EMP on -1 is the way go for a combat build (at least for now until even more badass weapons are added to the game via the branches).
Quote from: Happylisk on September 03, 2015, 07:00:52 AM
What a win! It gives me hope that I'll win a combat cogmind in the not too distant future.
I wonder if Behemoth looting via EMP on -1 is the way go for a combat build (at least for now until even more badass weapons are added to the game via the branches).
I think if you can even kill a behemoth you might be set already. Haven't tried myself.
Quote from: Happylisk on September 03, 2015, 07:00:52 AM
What a win! It gives me hope that I'll win a combat cogmind in the not too distant future.
I wonder if Behemoth looting via EMP on -1 is the way go for a combat build (at least for now until even more badass weapons are added to the game via the branches).
Very slight spoilers ahead:
The loot from them is amazing, but Behemoths aren't
so common on sublevel 1 that you can build a strategy around them. The stockpiles hold a good number of goodies (more than Research at least), but what really saved me once I got to the final level was the amazing number of Transporters carrying parts around. I went from naked to fully kitted out just by staying in one corridor and killing the constant stream of Transporters that came through. YMMV, though; my sublevel 1 map was very oddly shaped, and I spawned right at the narrow connection point between the two 'lobes' of the map.
I
would, however, recommend avoiding weapons with a negative salvage modifier unless you're out of other options. Replacement parts are very important for combat builds as attrition is inevitable, and every time you pull out a rocket launcher or assault cannon, you're essentially poisoning your future efforts, IMO. That's why I didn't use my launchers the whole map - they were strictly for cases where I was outnumbered to the point I'd take massive damage if I didn't use AoE weaponry. I never ran into the massive horde I feared.
Going EM-heavy for even more salvage is an interesting strategy, though. If you try it out, please share!
Quote from: zxc on September 03, 2015, 08:24:08 AMI think if you can even kill a behemoth you might be set already. Haven't tried myself.
It was somewhere in Research IIRC, not Access (a.k.a. sublevel 1, the name is on the high score list so I figure I can say it), but I one-shot a Behemoth! =D I think I may have crit it's core with a bunch of cannons amp'd up with Target Analyzers. I used to think those utilities weren't worth using over other options - this run really changed my mind. Equipping them in support of Targeting Computers they work wonders, as long as you equip weapons that can take advantage of them.
EDIT:
Quote from: zxc on September 03, 2015, 05:26:13 AM
Nicely done ;D
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMAnd WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time.
Bit of theory-crafting: if you're going the route of combat and heavy propulsion (treads), then you can skimp on extra propulsion slots to unlock more utilities and other slots. This I think is one of the most attractive aspects of running a combat build. With flight or hover, you want at least three propulsion slots, and often more.
Oh yes, definitely. I'm pressed for every utility slot I get get until around sublevel 4 or so. It's amazing how little use guns are without the right utilities to make them work; I was playing tired for part of the run, and because I was very low on power generation, sometimes I'd turn off ALL my combat utilities to regen power - when I forgot to turn them on again before the next battle, it was immediately apparent simply from the volley's poor performance that something was very off.
Something else I haven't emphasized is the importance of hacking - I was carrying around two hacking utilities for helping me purge threat, and I was able to increase the number to
four when I found an Imp Matter Compressor that doubled my mass storage, making it feasible to afford the 80 mass swap penalty at each Terminal. I don't have a firm enough grasp of the game to state this with high confidence, but I suspect that once threat gets over a certain point you enter a feedback loop of sorts, where killing robots sends more after you, and killing them gets more sent after you, accelerating to bigger kill teams at shorter intervals until you die. In fact, one of my fears with treads is that I'm so slow that, by the time I've crawled back and forth over a large battlefield looting the dead, another kill team has already found me. It's been those sort of chain-battles that have ended many of my runs in the past. This time, I'd estimate I was able to keep threat at low security/level 1 until at least sublevel 4, maybe even 3. It spiked after that, but as you can see, I never got higher than alert level 3, and I was killing
everything.
Kyzrati, how much did you rely on hacking on your combat run that went to Access?
I have more I want to say, but it'll have to wait until after work. =)
I don't know what double-posting etiquette is around here, but it's been awhile, so I'm going to stick the rest of this in its own post.
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 03, 2015, 01:23:01 AM
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PMHaha, awesome box shot :P
Chromehounds was a great game with not enough polish. I dream of someday seeing a high-budget game bring 'realistic' modular combat robots into the limelight, but for now I can play Cogmind and pretend. =)
MWO isn't a bad alternative.
If you recall, I used to be playing Cogmind on an older laptop - I actually got a new one just a couple weeks ago (with numpad!), so I was able to try Mechwarrior Online out! Unfortunately, I found the mechs to be
really ungainly and frustrating to control - a first for me, normally I dislike all the mech games that having them flying around like they weigh nothing at all. Perhaps I need more time to get the control scheme down, but in any case, the level of customization I'm after is significantly more than what even MWO provides. The Early Access game M.A.V. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/280440/) is basically a bit-for-bit indie Chromehounds, and I'm hoping it will someday be solid enough for me to jump into.
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 03, 2015, 01:23:01 AM
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
I will say the boost to durability was a massive boost to the 'all treads, all the time' option, though. Before, I would be forced to use legs or other methods of propulsion intermittently, which took away the unique benefit of committing oneself to this sort of build. The straight doubling of their durability was significantly more than expected, but boy am I grateful!
It was more than originally planned, too :P.
I was thinking +25%, then when it came time to implement I decided to go all out with it on the premise that if you're going to commit to being slow and fighting everything, you really can't be worrying too much about propulsion in the meantime, not to mention you have a 100% chance of triggering traps (though you're slow enough that you'll often see them first)--how did traps figure into your run?
Honestly, I was expecting an increase of only 20-40% - again, not that I'm complaining. However, I was basing my expectations on my experience (and troubles) running a flying, stealthy Cogmind, where finding more flight units was a near-constant issue. (I suspect part of the issue was me just not having the right playstyle/strategy for stealth) With treads being the their 'equivalent' on the far end of the spectrum, I found it reasonable enough they should be hard to constantly acquire and maintain. But I'm perfectly happy with this duality where the slow, brawl-y treads can take an incredible pounding and keep on ticking. =P It should be whatever fits your vision of the game.
Traps had a pretty minor effect overall - I often used a Structural Scanner, and I'm slow enough that usually the scanner and/or my baseline sensors would detect at least one trap in an array before I triggered any of them, and I'd know to swing clear or destroy them with explosives. I'm a bit surprised that I was never once blocked from going in a direction I really needed to, though. I'm not sure if that means the placement of line and block arrays should be upped or not - I didn't fear them like I did minefields, and they don't have the ability to hit you before you can see them like singles at doorways can, but I think too many of them could be very frustrating, especially as players won't always have an explosive weapon handy. My only notable experience with traps this run was using an explosive weapon to clear a few Ambush traps in a line array, but for some silly reason I decided to assume that they were all gone after one shot, and stepped in a tile I didn't explicitly know was clear - but I was actually rewarded for it with one of the new little 'events' you've put in!
My first Alpha 3 run had a much different experience with traps, though - once I wandered into a minefield array of the traps that damage and sever parts. IIRC, the first one severed a storage unit, which made a big mess. Then, when I stepped a couple squares over to retrieve a part, I triggered another one! At that point I decided the minefield was probably thin enough to continue forward... bad assumption. I think I got hit another couple times before I made it through. In hindsight, I should have just stood still and waited for my sensors to identify the rest after recovering my parts from the second trap. I had a similar experience trying to press through a minefield of EMP traps - yay, more corruption!
Later on, I lost the whole run, which was shaping up great, to a chute trap that I had already identified. >.< Feature request: can we please require a confirmation press before stepping on traps we know about, similar to how collisions work? Anyway, I had gone for a few too many utilities at the expense of weapon slots, so once... down there, I didn't have
quite enough firepower or speed to escape. Again, in hindsight, I might have been able to get through either by kiting (I'm not used to being faster than things with my treads), or by dropping everything and rushing past, but I was too curious watching how they devoured my poor Cogmind. =P
I've never once intentionally used traps to my own benefit, and given my ability to avoid them via other methods (namely, being crazy slow and using up one slot on a Structural Scanner, which provides at least some other benefits) and their
generally non-catastrophic effects, I felt I had better things to do with my hacking attempts and other resources than working to locate/convert them. Traps were a net difficulty increase for me, but not a huge one, and perhaps overall not quite enough of one, though I should really do a few more runs before I say that. But they
did work very well as a way to increase environment variation and interactivity - you can call them a success on that count in my book. In fact, I feel more features that do this sort of thing would be very welcome. I understand the ideal of keeping environmental complexity low, but I think there's still room for more - I vote for more features in this vein as development continues. =)
Quote from: Kyzrati on September 03, 2015, 01:23:01 AM
I think with a lot of power sources and the right utilities you might even be able to make yourself deadly (and nearly invulnerable) even without relying on much armor.
I was thinking the same thoughts after killing a bunch of Hunters and getting my hands on their Imp Cloaking Devices in Research, but obviously I didn't have the power to run those at the time. As you might have been able to tell, I usually skimp on power slots as well as propulsion in my ruthless pursuit of utility slots, but when I reached the final evolution, I finally felt like I couldn't utilize even more very effectively, so I went with x2 new power slots to ensure I wouldn't have power issues on sublevel 1. Thanks to that, I got to try out an Adv Force Field in all it's glory. I think a few good Cloaking Devices, especially combined with one of those, would make for a very formidable defense. I hesitate to try it, however, because it would necessitate investing in a 3rd and possibly even 4th power slot fairly early on, and then hoping you run into the utilities to harness that power. Plus, replacements would be a big problem when attrition eventually takes its toll. The plug-and-play nature of armor makes it both more accessible and less risky, in my experience. I'll have to try it out at some point, but I'll be nervous taking that build into pitched battle - plus, relying on those will make me piss my pants even more when a Brawler comes around a corner at close range!
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 10:13:47 AM
Kyzrati, how much did you rely on hacking on your combat run that went to Access?
You're right about the feedback loop. It's a dangerous proposition, especially for now where you have no branch exits in the latter half of the game. The idea is that later on if you run into too much trouble you can skip off to a branch and lose some of that heat. (In Alpha 3 there
is a new way to
completely reset your security level, but I doubt anyone's figured that one out yet. There will be an in-game tip on how it works later.)
Despite being quite destructive, I've been doing less and less Purging over time. What brought me down (back in Alpha 2c) was simply being underpowered towards the end and getting unlucky in meeting multiple patrols over a smaller space.
I do, however, always hack Terminals when I see them, and am tending towards using more direct hacks for extra intel, more "going with the flow" than saying I absolutely need a certain thing. (I only make an exception for Purges if I've been especially destructive, but even then I don't mind being at security level 2 for a while.)
I try to carry around at least one hacking utility to swap in when important, but quite often it ends up getting dropped in favor of something more combat-oriented :/
Target Analyzers are awesome when used properly; my dream build is a bunch of analyzers combined with an array of fast-firing kinetic guns.
I'm looking forward to trying this week's seed soon--I've yet to play a full Alpha 3 run.
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 04:38:37 PM
I don't know what double-posting etiquette is around here, but it's been awhile, so I'm going to stick the rest of this in its own post.
By all means! I think double-posting is fine so long as it's adding a lot more to the discussion (e.g. your second huge post here :P).
MWO: They keep adding stuff to the maps and my old laptop can't handle it anymore (I get around 20 fps now, down from 30 :/), so I'm out for now. I think the controls are done pretty well--
way better than the early beta. You might also just need some better mechs--if you've just started playing I'm guessing what you have is pretty crappy. Each mech has its own feel, which will also continue to evolve and improve as you raise your piloting skill (they'll become significantly more responsive, for one). The part customization is still pretty much the same old BT/MT, so yeah it would take a serious indie production to pull off anything more.
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
But I'm perfectly happy with this duality where the slow, brawl-y treads can take an incredible pounding and keep on ticking. =P It should be whatever fits your vision of the game.
The final balance will come when the world is complete. We need to make sure that you can keep on ticking through a potentially longer game (sometimes
without as many replacement parts). So this and other tweaks are edging toward that state. I wanted very early alpha to generally have a more difficult Complex 0b10, since for now that's where much of the game happens.
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
for some silly reason I decided to assume that they were all gone after one shot, and stepped in a tile I didn't explicitly know was clear - but I was actually rewarded for it with one of the new little 'events' you've put in!
Oh nice ;). Yeah, that's gotten me before, too, while testing--blowing up an area and "assuming" they were all gone :P
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
Again, in hindsight, I might have been able to get through either by kiting (I'm not used to being faster than things with my treads), or by dropping everything and rushing past, but I was too curious watching how they devoured my poor Cogmind. =P
Yup, they are slow and you'll generally be able to make it out with only minor sacrifices. Hint: There are also multiple potential benefits down there.
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
Feature request: can we please require a confirmation press before stepping on traps we know about, similar to how collisions work?
Great idea; it shall be done. Identified chute traps especially can be hard to spot ;)
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
Traps were a net difficulty increase for me, but not a huge one, and perhaps overall not quite enough of one, though I should really do a few more runs before I say that. But they did work very well as a way to increase environment variation and interactivity - you can call them a success on that count in my book. In fact, I feel more features that do this sort of thing would be very welcome. I understand the ideal of keeping environmental complexity low, but I think there's still room for more - I vote for more features in this vein as development continues. =)
Thanks for the rundown on your trap experience. They weren't really intended to increase difficulty, at least not significantly, mostly just to spruce up the environment and provide more tools for
players to use, if desired. Once you have a combat build traps may not be all that useful to you, but I can imagine hybrid or fast Cogminds making good use of them to augment otherwise weaker combat capabilities.
Quote from: Adraius on September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM
relying on those will make me piss my pants even more when a Brawler pops around a corner at close range!
Same! Brawlers are always my primary target ;). I hate those things with a passion because they can knock out sensitive systems first. (I'm glad I added them, though :P)